MG's a bit more deadly?

[Pizzagrenadier]

Like I have said in countless MG threads...the MG's need just a little more versatility to be perfect.

I think part of it is visibility. When in IS, you are locked into a view that removes a huge part of your screen with the gun itself limiting visibility incredibly. Visibility to the target area is crucial to getting the drop on your target. When your gun takes up almost 60-75% of your screen, it is kind of hard to see your target coming, more or less shoot him...

I can't tell you how many times I have been shot by a guy who appereared within the LOS blocked by my MG model. This is why we are always dropping the gun down and then having to bring it up to target, and that takes crucial moments.

If they implement the features they talked about such as a deployed with heads up sighting position from which you can fire (and HERE is where tracers will be useful) with the ability to go into IS from there, they will really make MG's more versatile and survivable.

Couple that with a rotation on a bipod and MG's will be damn near perfect.

I also have been asking that they make Tracers optional with the ability to interchange between a belt or mag without them to abelt or mag with them like you do AP and HE. Allow MG'ers to select how many belts they want of tracers in the weapon selection screen. Just an idea...

Still, like others have said, a big part of it is position. I would also add displacing between several positions helps. have locked down parts of Kessel being deployed on that overturned table.

 

[Jmodels]

Yer, the MG class is shite, it looks crap (when prone and when the MG opens fire) and you have more chance with a rifle, need changin!

 

[fire4effect]

My gripe with the mg class is the inability to provide proper surpressing fire. This is partially due to the fact that 1-2 teamates will actually give the mger ammo when asked for, and limitations of barrels or no extra barrels for the russians.

When I personally think of mgs I think of supressive power, and for me the mg's in this game can't really produce that to a great degree. Not only the above limitations cause a hinderence to unleashing the true potential of a mg, but the fact it spits out tracers at the rate that is does, makes them inevitable bullet/nade magnets. Here's a couple suggestions IMO that would help remedy some of the probs with the mg:

1. Giving ammo should be made even easier to the mger, instead of having to hit a key to drop ammo, ammo should be dumped automatically on the mger upon passing within close vicinity of the mger. This way people that pass by you and couldn't care less about your ammo needs will actually preform a resupply without really thinking about it. I personally don't have a problem running accross the map to resupply an mger, but I think I'm part of a very small precentage.

2. Vary tracer rounds up, obviously there was a numerical standard when incorporating tracer rounds but make it more random, I'm sure some of those belts/boxes got pretty mixed up. Or even further, limit the frequency of tracer rounds in general. This way you won't have to keep changing position because you know Mr "X" that you just killed knows exactly where you were. Sure many will say that the tracers help their aim which is why they were put into mgs, but supression over hosing down hordes of troops should be the main goal to anyone that picks that class.

3. Allow the Mger to replenish his supply of barrels in ammo resupply zones. I've also seen video clips of the barrel change of the russian mg, and though it is more lenghty than the german couter-parts, it should be incorporated into the game. The actual ability to change the barrel IMO would supercede the time that it would take for the barrel to be changed out.

I feel that there are so many worries that come with selecting the mg class, it's one of the hardest classes to use properly, and survivabilty is close to non-existent. Your just waiting to get killed most of the time. Sure there are really good players at mg'ing I've witnessed quite a handful, and the whole "well a buddy should be watching your back" is a rare thing. Anyone that says that's not true is either in a close knit clan, or just believing in something that rarely happens. Just my two cents on making the mger more dangerous, because they really should be.

 

[qwejibo]

3. Unfortunately, the Red Army didn't issue spare barrels for the DP28.

 

[fire4effect]

one down...lol. ty

 

[Phoenix-D]

one down...lol. ty

To be fair you almost have to TRY to make that thing overheat. It takes 3 full drums to even make it steam, and the fire rate doesn't even slow until you're halfway though drum #4. That's continious fire, with the only pause being to reload.

 

[fire4effect]

Yes very true for the DP28, it does take awhile to get the thing smoking but once you do, your down to single shot mode for awhile or not firing at all for a length of time, and I personally don't believe that you have to TRY to get any of these guns to overheat. And notice that I haven't bothered to make a suggestion to decrease barrel-ware time. The MG34 is already limited by drum size so that's spoken for as well. The MG42 is another story though. In not asking for these mg's to become gatling guns or anything. But I guess there is a difference of how I personally use an mg and would like to see it being used more often.

I personally like to lay down walls of bullets to route/shift enemy movement. I could care less about acutally killing anyone, I much rather scare the **** outta them. The sound of a mg banging away has slowed my advance down almost everytime, like many others I'm sure. It's in those secs/mins of pinning the enemy that an mg becomes very effective, because it gives your team the chance to exploit any opportunities that you might have opened up for them. It's just that iv'e never encounterd an mger that I didn't end up getting the drop on, sure it's inevitable in a video game so that's a given, but I would personally like to see it increase in difficulty to do so (above suggestions). It would be nice to see a little more proactive mgers in this game because I feel like many pick the class thinking that they are a sniper with more bullets and a bigger gun.

 

[LemoN]

I think its the lack of penetration. DEVs have said they won't do it cause it will bring servers to their knees. But if you could penetrate fences, stairs, doors, interior walls, etc. I don't believe you could ever really penetrate sand bags, but if you could get some bouncing bullets...

u actually need something like 3-4 rows of sandbags to STOP a bullet from an normal assaultrifle we got atm (like the steyr aug)
and in roost u barley see one...

oh and we are NOT talking about american paperwalls
those are solid brick or stonewalls so NOT those wood and paper houses u gtot in the usa....

 

[[tR]Mad Mac]

u actually need something like 3-4 rows of sandbags to STOP a bullet from an normal assaultrifle we got atm (like the steyr aug)
and in roost u barley see one...

oh and we are NOT talking about american paperwalls
those are solid brick or stonewalls so NOT those wood and paper houses u gtot in the usa....

lol, our walls are made of sheetrock (its like a light concrete).

But back on topic- I used to think that the mg's were difficult to use, but after practicing a bit, I find them quite effective.

 

[Harry S. Truman]

I'm utterly convinced there's nothing wrong with the MG42 now. It's technique boys. I've gotten so deadly with it lately, that I'm risking being banned from servers!

 

[Byte Me]

Harry S. Truman
I'm utterly convinced there's nothing wrong with the MG42 now. It's technique boys. I've gotten so deadly with it lately, that I'm risking being banned from servers!

Just a really good kill streak, with the right kind of people on a certain map or server, you can own all day long with any weapon. Come back the next day and go, "WTF? I was amazing! What gives?" It has happened to us all I'm sure. The only technique I use for the MG42 is to spray so the recoil levels off after half a sec or so (this is why the recoil is backwards, it should be smooth sailing if you burst, but as soon as you hold fire for just a little bit to long, the recoil comes full force, for some reason it is the opposite).

 

[Harry S. Truman]

Just a really good kill streak, with the right kind of people on a certain map or server, you can own all day long with any weapon. Come back the next day and go, "WTF? I was amazing! What gives?" It has happened to us all I'm sure. The only technique I use for the MG42 is to spray so the recoil levels off after half a sec or so (this is why the recoil is backwards, it should be smooth sailing if you burst, but as soon as you hold fire for just a little bit to long, the recoil comes full force, for some reason it is the opposite).

No, no...never spray. Waste ammo, overheat and lots of recoil. Quick taps of the trigger, 3-5 rounds downrange at a time. If its a group..just tap, tap, tap, tap. It's like a freaking rail gun....

 

[Byte Me]

Harry S. Truman
No, no...never spray. Waste ammo, overheat and lots of recoil. Quick taps of the trigger, 3-5 rounds downrange at a time. If its a group..just tap, tap, tap, tap. It's like a freaking rail gun....

Unless I'm in some kinda ineffective mg bubble, bursting with the MG42 does nothing for me. For whatever reason the recoil is insanely high at first and then levels off, so in order to kill anyone I hold down fire till the gun stops flying all over the place. Try it, do a quick burst, then hold fire for 3 secs, big difference. The only other way to explain it would be to make a video, which I do not have the inclination to do.

 

[hellhammer]

This has been discussed since the day the mgs were implemented into the mod. I agree they are still too weak. Recoil needs to be reduced (esp. when firing bursts) and accuracy needs to be improved a bit. I find it very disturbing that with the MG42 it's more effective to fire long bursts and drag over the target than to fire short controlled bursts like it was really done.

And apart from that it would be useful AND realistic to remove the "here am I, shoot me"-tracers. They were only used at night and usually with emplaced MGs (with tripod).

Its not supposed be all tracers loaded, one out of every 3 or 5 rounds is a tracer. Instead it looks like a plasma gun fireing green and yellow bugers at high speed.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

lol, our walls are made of sheetrock (its like a light concrete)....

Hey, So I have the power and I can punch thru concrete

Seriously, sometimes it is hard to deploy an MG, but he should also have a rifleman to back him up if he does. The rest is really just proper squad teamplay and support. Hopefully, most people will eventually figure out to drop off some ammo. Also, a properly positioned MG can be brutal to an enemy, and a real ***** to have to pass by.

But hey, that is just my opinion...

 

[Phoenix-D]

Its not supposed be all tracers loaded, one out of every 3 or 5 rounds is a tracer. Instead it looks like a plasma gun fireing green and yellow bugers at high speed.

MG-42 fire rate is 1200 RPM if I remember right. Translates to 20 rounds per second..four tracers ever second.

To me that almost sounds like there should be MORE tracers visible..

 

[[-project.rattus-]]

u actually need something like 3-4 rows of sandbags to STOP a bullet from an normal assaultrifle we got atm (like the steyr aug)

Allthough i too would really like to see penetration in game especially as a dedicated machine gunner, that statement is not quite true. it takes about 15 cm of sand to stop a 5.56 mm bullet. Only way to "penetrate" is if you are lucky enough to shoot through some gaps that line up...

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot7.htm

 

[PGD03]

Lessons learned #1 is the best. "It's still fun to shoot stuff"

But now to the point. I played K

 

[grahvem]

I also believe that in Day of Defeat the MG42 is coded so that it shoots only one bullet when it would in real life shoot two, reducing the rate of fire to a decent 600 rpm instead of the actual 1200 rpm. This "double-bullet" of course does twice the damage of a normal bullet to compensate for the reduced fire rate, so practically if you are hit anywhere with the MG42, you are dead. The solution works very well and in my opinion it could be imported to RO:O. (Even in RO:O I suppose different types of weapons deal different amounts of damage although the player doesn't get to see the actual numbers. Otherwise a pistol shot would be as powerful as a rifle shot, which does not seem to be the case.)

If this is implemented, the semi-automatic firing mode might be a problem though. If semi-automatic fire shot bullets that do double damage, this might give the semi-automatic mode an unfair advantage, and it would also halve the amount of shots you can actually fire with semi-auto. But I'd be surprised if no-one could figure out a workaround for this. Maybe it would be possible at least to tweak the bullets shot with semi-automatic fire so that they would do the damage of only one bullet even though they would practically use two bullets from the chain.

I could not have said it better.
this 600rpm+ 2x dmg vs 1200rpm +1xdmg is a really good idea.
making the MG do more dmg is a good thing. because i have experienced many times that when shot by the MG42, the little man down to the left have been 75% red. that meens ive been hit about 4-6 times. Hello? who could take 6 7.92 mm bullets in their arms, chest and legs? and still being able to run as nothing have happened after 10 sec? id say almost nobody.

and an other ting...

The MGs use 7.65 mm rounds. at about 755m/s this is really fast its over konigsplatz at max 1,5 second.. so why does it feel it takes ages before that little russiand falls to the ground?

and what the oxford Companion to world war 2 says about the MG42*
MG 42
General-purpose machine gun
7.92 x 57 mm Mauser (0.31 in)
755 m / second.
1200 rounds / minute.
range: 500 metres direct fire:3500 meters indirect fire
and here comes the good part NOTICE GAME DEVELOPERS!
50-round belt (usually clipped in fives to give 250 rounds)

And btw: the MG34
75 round drum magazine or 50-round belt

can someone tell me why the developers have used the smallest abbount of ammo in the diffrent types of ammo 'boxes'?
it is a huge differece of what a weapons is designed for and how they use it... for an example..
IS2 had a nice 12.7mm machinegun (mroe like a cannon ^^) on the top of its 'tower', it was designed for shooting at enemy planes. BUT it was used for mowing down german infantry...
I think ive made a point there.

fun fact from a page about weapons of WWII

This high rate of fire could be reassuring to a nervous soldier , but the vibration it produced was a problem : the MG-42 was less accurate then the MG34 on the bipod.Though soldiers were trained to fire short bursts this was sometimes hard to remember in the heat of battle.Entusiastic use of the weapon also got through a lot of rounds which meant that the three-man crew needed to carry heavy loads of ammunition.The snarling fire of an MG-42 was unmistakable , often likened by Allied soldiers to the sound of tearing linoleum.One veteran recalled " the hysterical shriek of the MG-42's furious rate of fire "....." i remember my first reaction....was one of amazement at the crushing fire power of those guns.It seemed to me that the German soldier seldom used his rifle.He was a carrier of boxes of light machine-gun ammunition of which they seemed to have an endless supply."

 

[Byte Me]

@ grahvem
It should be possible to get 1 hit kills with them mgs, though I don't think I have ever got one. Also, I don't know how someone would have manage to live 6 shots, probably lag or some kind of glitch, because you can't take that amount from any gun in RO. The reason for the 50 rounds for the mg34 and mg42 is because the 75 round drum is very rare and how could you possible lug around a mg42 with 250 rounds attached to it? Only when being crew served or on a tripod could you manage that, but these features are not in RO. While I don't think the mg bullets are slow, it seems that the tracers move very slow but I think its just how they look and still just as fast as the other bullets.