Hipfiring MG 34!!

[Stahlhelmii]

That's actually so sad that it's funny... Talk about clearing that building in no-time lol. This will surely get nerfed?

After close range hit "non"detection, it's morons like Rambutt there that have ruined the game. Come on, not even a fatigue bar for it? I mean, those things weighed at least 30 pounds. Nobody could hold them in firing position, run around, and keep that barrel in the same position for 5 minutes. If you run half a football field in this game, you collapse into worthlessness, but anyone can "jog" around with an MG34 for 5 minutes clearing out entire platoons with pinpoint accuracy, and never break a sweat. It's easier to run around and hip shoot an lmg in RO2 than it is in any COD game, IMO, because the bullets actually go where the barrel is pointing.

Some of us have game breaking close range hit detection problems, and idiots like that have none at all. This clown gets about 10 kills before even having to think about reloading. Life just ain't fair -- least not in RO2.

I think the worst thing about what he's doing is that the game actually REWARDS him for it, and the more he does it, the easier the game rewards for Ramboing make his life. Meaning, with weapon leveling, his recoil and reload time keep getting lower the more he does this.

 

[RJ_MacReady]

The MG's should not be hipfired on the move, and like in Ost you should have to press the IS button before you can fire it (with a short delay simulating the soldier getting into a braced fiering stance, which i'd love to see reflected in the 3'rd person model aswell), and the gun should feel heavy, when hipped there should be some lag between moving the mouse and the gun catching up to your new aim, simulating that it's heavy to swing that thing around.

We share the exact same point of view, dear sir. No firing MGs on the move. Press Alt-Fire to get into proper stance (but NOT iron sights!) and only then pull the trigger. This would get rid of CQB Rambos for good, or so I hope.

(...)the guy above wants to make the already highly useless MG class even more so.(...)
Til they fix the fact using the bipod is suicide, ill keep using it in QCB.

I don't get it how can you say the MG class is useless when the fact is those classes are harvesting pixel soldiers' lives like reapers. I lost count how many times I've been (and seen team-mates) mowed down by a well placed MG34.
Even I, with my mediocre (at best) aim, always get quite a decent kill count, while maintaining the best kill/death ratio, than with any other weapon. And its all while firing from bipod in a prone position (DP). While I, as well as you, wouldn't play on a server which enforces ADS shooting with every weapon, I just can't agree with anything you said here. Especially with you endorsing the gamey CQB combat with MGs. If it's suicide for you to shoot from a bipod, then you're most certainly doing it wrong and should play the assault class instead, because - by judging from your post - that's what I think would fit your gameplay better.

 

[ARMY guy]

If i play MG34 ramboing, i top the score every game and win every round. If i camp somewhere not helping the team, i top nothing and we lose most of the time. It is always better to move with the team, than sit somewhere in a corner and mow the occasional person down. The maps dont allow that style of gameplay usually. The MG is way more powerful when rambo'd but still, theres no way anyone here is moving while doing it. I have to stop, crouch and shoot a bunch a tracers to get a bead on someone. If the person i am shooting at takes that long to kill me when im not moving, he deserves to die.

 

[Grobut]

Can't really blame people for playing the game as it was designed, they are just doing what works within the rules of the game and it's mechanics, and Rambo'ing the MG-34 just plain works, and works really well, so of course peple will do it.

It's the mechanics that allows this sillyness that needs to be solved, not the players, a game needs to enforce it's own rules.

Though sadly, TWI probably ment for it to be this way (why else code it this way?), so it might not change..

 

[Apos]

Can't really blame people for playing the game as it was designed, they are just doing what works within the rules of the game and it's mechanics, and Rambo'ing the MG-34 just plain works, and works really well, so of course peple will do it.

It's the mechanics that allows this sillyness that needs to be solved, not the players, a game needs to enforce it's own rules.

Though sadly, TWI probably ment for it to be this way (why else code it this way?), so it might not change..

Actually first suggestions from community to remove or nerf hip firing rambo MG were posted 5-6 months ago, in clan close beta. So that's again lead designer wrong decision to keep it that way.

Grobut, always when I read your post I wonder why you are not TWIs lead designer. Game made by you would so much better and interesting.

 

[RJ_MacReady]

ARMY Guy, nobody said about sitting in the corner of a map. You follow the team (notice the word "follow") and take position to: either cover most likely enemy approach route/chokepoint/flank, or cover the advance of your team by shooting at possible enemy positions (windows, doors, etc.). All this by staying a little bit behind your team. If you remember to change positions from time to time, it will work without getting you killed all the time and will help the team by allowing them to shift their attention and efforts towards their objectives.

Can't really blame people for playing the game as it was designed, they are just doing what works within the rules of the game and it's mechanics, and Rambo'ing the MG-34 just plain works, and works really well, so of course peple will do it.
It's the mechanics that allows this sillyness that needs to be solved, not the players, a game needs to enforce it's own rules.

Game mechanics? Yes. But perhaps rather an exploit? Divine Divinity mechanics, for example, allows player to create multiple copies of stackable items by entering "-1" when dropping them on the ground. An extreme example, but valid. Mechanics allow it? Yes. Should player do it?

If the current MG handling was a conscient developer's decision, and not simply something that's been overlooked or not throughly thought over, then I say it's one of the weirderst decisions they could make (the others being tank AI and weapon prototypes).

Anyway, MG Rambos... Next time you light a ciggy from the wrong side, or drop your sandwitch on the floor, buttered side down...

 

[DAT]

All these claims of the recoil being too much in RO2 is baloney. I have qualified with the M60 and M240 and even those have recoil. I have fired a MG3 w/bipod with the BW and you do get recoil as well. Short 5 to 7 bursts to stay on area target at 300m+. I feel the game accurately protrays recoil. I hope some of you posters do realize the slightest bit of movement is amplified out to point impact depending on range. Most weapon systems relate to 1mm of movement at POO equals 1m at POI or greater. If it was allowed I would love to give some of you guys range time!

POO= point of origin
POO= point of impact

 

[CocaineInMyBrain]

To reiterate some of the complaints from the thread in the suggestion forum
LMG's hipfiring is possible (and certain situations absolutely nesseceary), BUT you should not be able to run around with the same agility and speed of some one with an SMG. As it is now using LMG as an assualt weapon is often a lot more viable to using it in its intended role (this is also partly due the map design). Honestly right now on most maps (with the exception of the more open ones like FF and Spartanovka) if you know how to hipshoot properly with the MG there is pretty much no reason to set up and use it in its intended role.

 

[tixhal]

anyone remember the hipfiring mg's in day of defeat source? that was epic fun, the barrel pointed 90

 

[UsF]

From those videos it was kinda clear that hipfiring required a solid stance, so any movement would make you instable. Also the MG42 was easier to control, as in more accurate, since its higher RoF was supposedly making it more accurate, because the time inbetween shots gave it less time to recoil. If someone wants to correct me on that however, please do, since I do not remember the source.

I still think that hipfiring the MG from the shoulder should reduce the stamina of the soldier that is doing it. Doesn't look like some action you could perform all the way through a war or even battle, but occasionally, in times of emergency. When stamina is reduced or near zero, hipfiring should recoil heavier, as to give you the sense of exhaustion and simulating that you need to be prepared and fit for that kind of thing to do it.

 

[Grobut]

Grobut, always when I read your post I wonder why you are not TWIs lead designer. Game made by you would so much better and interesting.

That's very kind of you to say

Game mechanics? Yes. But perhaps rather an exploit? Divine Divinity mechanics, for example, allows player to create multiple copies of stackable items by entering "-1" when dropping them on the ground. An extreme example, but valid. Mechanics allow it? Yes. Should player do it?

If the current MG handling was a conscient developer's decision, and not simply something that's been overlooked or not throughly thought over, then I say it's one of the weirderst decisions they could make (the others being tank AI and weapon prototypes).

Anyway, MG Rambos... Next time you light a ciggy from the wrong side, or drop your sandwitch on the floor, buttered side down...

Sadly i do not belive it is an exploit or an oversight, but a deliberate design choice, RO2 is very obviously the auteur project of it's lead designer, John Gibson, and reflects his belifs for what the game should be and what it needed for mainstream appeal. John loves him some fast paced run and gun gameplay, this is well known, and thus it is what we got.

Besides, as Apos pointed out, TWI were made aware of this before the game's release, and yet it did not change either prior or post launch.
Besides, as obvious as it is, it is unlikely that anyone could have overlooked it, code had to be written to enable it and make it work the way it does..

 

[clambo]

Just look at this video, this isnt a realistic handling of an mg34!! WW2 soldiers fired it sometimes from the shoulders. From the Hip the fire isnt accurate you can hit nearly nothing, not like it is at the moment where you have better chances to kill someone in close quarter combats that has an smg.
Red Orchestra 2 Heroes of Stalingrad MG-34 gameplay - YouTube

I hope they will add more sway for the mg34 and other weapons, because that isnt funny how this. f.. runs arround !!

Where is the reload? There is no way it ever behaved that way for me - when I use it I have to reload it.

 

[hockeywarrior]

That's actually so sad that it's funny... Talk about clearing that building in no-time lol. This will surely get nerfed?

I wouldn't hold your breath any time soon. I, and other former beta testers, have been complaining about this for months now -- ever since July before release. Never was there any dev response about it getting fixed. Sigh.

 

[G_Sajer]

I've really never understood the uproar about this particular weapon use. It works no better or worse than real life. I've often failed to hit a close quarters target with a 34. In the Pacific campains Marines had a method of tying a rope lanyard to the barrel of a browning 30 cal belted mg and using it as close quarter brush broom. I've seen old Wehrmacht films of the 34 being used in a similar fashon by holding the bipod. It's not anymore accurrate than swinging the thing around will permit, but if you can get enough lead in a focused direction, it does the job. Don't tell me this use is atypical.

 

[Witzig]

Well aside from the lack of inertia of all Weapons (the sights do misalign during turning Weapons in case nobody noticed), the Ingame Vid shows clearly that he only gets accurate fire while stationary.
While moving the MG already isn't in the assault stance anymore, you automatically switch to the balanced assault stance while immobile.

At 1:40 into the vid you also see him miss with the MG34, even on sub 5m Shots.
Most of his shots are sub 15m, heck most are around 5m or closer. Anything more and it always takes more shots. The shots done at 50m and more are semiauto fire.

While one can argue about the time it should take to enter proper assault stance and how much recoil you'd have while moving, the accuracy while standing still is okay. Even while moving its okay in my book. YMMV.


Please keep in mind that the MG34 is at level 50 in the ingame vid.

 

[Goralski]

I'm only against hip firing MG's on the move(walking speed can be acceptable). Also adding more innertia to model weight of weapon is also good idea. Muzzle climb when deployed can be controlled by pulling your mouse down so I dont see a problem here. In my opinion MG's mechanics are much better then in RO1 where MG's had seriously nerfed accuracy. I don't wont any nerfs in RO2 even when ppl are crying that its unbalanced, I want real experience. In real life opposing sides didn't complained about imbalanced weapons, or about hip firing MG's they have got to live with it.

EDIT: Guys who are telling that hip fire wasn't used in RL or it was uneffective, Gents, its bull***.

 

[Comrade Kaizer]

We are seeing lots of hip firing because of the COD maps. I'm using mg also more hip, because of the small maps. When bigger maps start coming, hip firing will be gone...mostly.

The weapon mechanics have almost nothing to do with the map design. We've all played small maps in prior iterations of Red Orchestra and this wasn't an issue before.

Not sure where your logic is coming from, clearly it is some poor decisions on weapon design here.

 

[Atomskytten]

MG hipfire should be RO1 style where you had to adjust it on your hip and it brought you down to a slow walking speed.

It wouldn't be realistic that way.

RO2 has the most realistic hip firing mechanics of any FPS game I have ever seen.

The way you use a MG34/MG42/MG3 in the hip fire mode in real life is the way you do it in RO2.

If anyone is complaining about hipfiring 'Rambos' being to effective they are not using proper tactics as a lone machinegunner going Rambo should be dead meat in seconds if proper tactics are used by the enemy - especially if he runs into assault troopers.

Poor players = effective machinegun toting hipfiring Rambos.

 

[ARMY guy]

It wouldn't be realistic that way.

RO2 has the most realistic hip firing mechanics of any FPS game I have ever seen.

The way you use a MG34/MG42/MG3 in the hip fire mode in real life is the way you do it in RO2.

If anyone is complaining about hipfiring 'Rambos' being to effective they are not using proper tactics as a lone machinegunner going Rambo should be dead meat in seconds if proper tactics are used by the enemy - especially if he runs into assault troopers.

Poor players = effective machinegun toting hipfiring Rambos.

Finally, someone who sees it correctly. props to you sir.

 

[Atomskytten]

Just look at this video, this isnt a realistic handling of an mg34!! WW2 soldiers fired it sometimes from the shoulders. From the Hip the fire isnt accurate you can hit nearly nothing, not like it is at the moment where you have better chances to kill someone in close quarter combats that has an smg.
Red Orchestra 2 Heroes of Stalingrad MG-34 gameplay - YouTube

I hope they will add more sway for the mg34 and other weapons, because that isnt funny how this. f.. runs arround !!

Hipfiring a MG3 is both easy and accurate out to about 50 meters or so. A trained machinegunner should be able to hit most targets is 1-2 bursts even at 50 meters within the 1-2 secs it takes to identify a target point the gun and pull the trigger.

The weight of the gun really only has felt inertial effects with regards to targets outside the front 90 degrees arc as you can twist both the body and arms within that arc without any real big movements that would make the gun move uncontrollably - it is a matter of training and with little more practice than 5-10 minutes of hipfiring a machinegunner should be able to consistenly hit targets by hip firing out to 50 meters with no more than two bursts - I took me about 1 belt of 48 rounds to familarise my self enough with the MG3 to do exactly that and I would say that I would consistently score about 3 out of every 4 bursts on target even at 50 meters.


Hip firing skills is about spatial awareness and fine motor skill and if you lack in one or both you will seldom if ever hit anything with hip fire.