Hipfiring MG 34!!

[LordSteve]

I like some of the new ascpects of the game, but such a thing is just annoying!! Hipfiring mgs, some players are running arround like rambos and hipfiring there mgs, i just hate it. Pls TWI remove the possibility to hipfire the mg, or pls pls add more sway, because it isnt realistic that a hipfired mg is so accurate.
Instead of giving us surpression fire to attack objectives, they run in first line and fire their mg like hell.
MG-34 Madness Standing Fire - YouTube

 

[stray cat]

Hip firing MGs are realistic in RO2. Also the gun fires exactly where the barrel is pointing at. Which is infinitely more involved and playerskillbased than the usual approach by other games that simply use a cone of spread. Also real warfare is about chaos and improvising. So if an MG gunner is caught in a situation where he runs into the enemy inside a house you can bet a lot of money on the fact that he will actually do the rambo.

 

[Krobar]

MG hipfire should be RO1 style where you had to adjust it on your hip and it brought you down to a slow walking speed.

 

[Destraex]

Shame the game does not simulate "big" gunners. Big gunners can actually hold a MG steady pretty well and usually the gunner was chosen I would imagine for strength. But yes I agree that one should not be able to run n gun with a MG.

We had a huge discussion on the subject a while back. I actually have books that say that Germans used straps and actually assaulted from the hip position.
There are a few photos of it too. However the text seems to imply this was more for suppression and scariness than anything else.

However I doubt house to house was the ideal for the gunner. In RL they are left outside where possible.

I agree that the gunner at least for game play should be pretty inaccurate at all ranges but short from the hip. Also the gun is long and heavy. You are not snapping that thing around too fast, but steady forward at short range it should do the trick until you can be outside\in cover again and in position doing your job properly.

 

[Knochensack]

@ OP: The shooter in the video is acting nuts. The recoil is not that bad, if you're shooting properly. Compare:

Army Soldier dual-wields some M249's - YouTube

Machine Gun Man - YouTube

MG-42 sturmfeuer (assault fire) - YouTube

 

[Apos]

Hip-firing was very inaccurate in RL (you cannot use iron sight to aim), not like in RO2 where you can easily kill enemy at 100+ meters.
It was used like that very very rare, LMGs job is to provide suppressive fire mostly, not to rush with MG in first line (like in RO2).
If you see LMG gunner hip firing in RL, he's standing and firing, not running and killing everyone like in RO2.

When hipfiring is somehow realistic (can be done in RL), it isn't historical accurate to use it that way. Such elements in RO2 are highly exploited and used in wrong way.

From other hand, if we are talking about realism, why recoil of deployed LMG is totally unrealistic and doesn't follow laws of physic?

It should be done just like in RO:O...

 

[LordSteve]

Just look at this video, this isnt a realistic handling of an mg34!! WW2 soldiers fired it sometimes from the shoulders. From the Hip the fire isnt accurate you can hit nearly nothing, not like it is at the moment where you have better chances to kill someone in close quarter combats that has an smg.
Red Orchestra 2 Heroes of Stalingrad MG-34 gameplay - YouTube

I hope they will add more sway for the mg34 and other weapons, because that isnt funny how this. f.. runs arround !!

 

[Syonco]

Just look at this video, this isnt a realistic handling of an mg34!! WW2 soldiers fired it sometimes from the shoulders. From the Hip the fire isnt accurate you can hit nearly nothing, not like it is at the moment where you have better chances to kill someone in close quarter combats that has an smg.
Red Orchestra 2 Heroes of Stalingrad MG-34 gameplay - YouTube

I hope they will add more sway for the mg34 and other weapons, because that isnt funny how this. f.. runs arround !!

That's actually so sad that it's funny... Talk about clearing that building in no-time lol. This will surely get nerfed?

 

[Lush]

We have an RNG rule on our servers (whatever game we play)

Use your sights at all times when firing

This may seem a little unrealistic to some, but we have implemented this for years on all our games and the players who appreciate what are trying to do become regulars on our servers

We have to differentiate from noob RNG servers where people strafe left and right while hip firing, bunny hop etc

 

[Gudenrath]

It should take far longer for the mgunner to get the gun ready for hipfiring (kind of like in RO1 where you had to press the IS button, even though it didn't really go into IS-mode), and he should be a lot more encumbered when moving about.

If those features was introduced I don't think the current accuracy of the gun when hipfiring would pose such a problem as it does now, where the machinegunner can practically compete with smgers in a fast draw duel.

 

[Proud_God]

We have an RNG rule on our servers (whatever game we play)

Use your sights at all times when firing

This may seem a little unrealistic to some, but we have implemented this for years on all our games and the players who appreciate what are trying to do become regulars on our servers

We have to differentiate from noob RNG servers where people strafe left and right while hip firing, bunny hop etc

Not the right solution at all imo. You can't just ignore the fact that hipfire is viable in some cases. A more reasonable policy might be to make it mandatory to walk when hipfiring LMGs.

 

[radix]

In all the movies I've seen they are not moving when hipfiring. In RO you can walk around and hipfire.

 

[Lush]

Not the right solution at all imo. You can't just ignore the fact that hipfire is viable in some cases. A more reasonable policy might be to make it mandatory to walk when hipfiring LMGs.

Well that is your opinion, but our servers are all run the same with the same rules and the people that play on them enjoy the experience

We were always going to bring this rule in and our other rules as soon as we had B3 running to admin our server properly

We dont care if hip firing is viable, we treat it as part of the game that you must raise your sights when you fire

I will probably here a moan or 2 now, but our COD servers run a mod called Openwarfare, this mod has TR rules built into it, for example, if you run and gun not one bullet will hit the any person, you must raise your sights to kill with any weapon.

We live by our rules

 

[ARMY guy]

Another words, the guy above wants to make the already highly useless MG class even more so. Good thing i don't play at his server...

Til they fix the fact using the bipod is suicide, ill keep using it in QCB.

 

[MarioBava]

I think we've all seen that video. I think the problems that are revealed there: not enough inertia in aiming/looking around in assault position, and it's too easy to fire while in motion ie not a stable position. He really whips that thing around too fast back and forth as (obviously) easily as flicking your wrist with the mouse and has no problem accurately firing it while still moving.

Another idea is to have the stamina bar affected by just having the MG in assault position, and when stamina bar is depleted you have to rest before you can resume the assault position. This would change the look of the play shown in that video by a lot.

Of course, the Russians in the vid look like they are playing another game, they are terrible, but it doesn't excuse the inertia!

"Sway" itself is not an issue unless you're moving, because the proper tripod position isn't going to produce much "sway".

But the thing is even firing out of an improper position is going to have deadly results at the mostly extremely close engagement ranges shown in the RO2 video above, especially if you have trigger discipline and limit your fire to short bursts.
Even with "moar sway" there will be almost nothing you can do against it in those situations where you are surprised by an MG assault at spitting range and have one bullet to fire before you'll be dead.

He should be able to "assault fire" it with relative accuracy at close ranges, only when not moving, and the aim/mouse control should have quite a bit more noticeable inertia (mouse lag). Recoil control should be insanely bad when walking around...problem is like I said in short bursts this guy is going to get similar results. He probably wouldn't last nearly as long with more inertia though; being able to whip around as if he were holding a plastic toy saved him. Because you can't turn your head in this game, mouse lag for assault MG will bring in one artificial disadvantage (impaired situational awareness), but when the look is tied to where your bullets go, that's the way it has to be.

 

[Grobut]

Hip firing MGs are realistic in RO2. Also the gun fires exactly where the barrel is pointing at. Which is infinitely more involved and playerskillbased than the usual approach by other games that simply use a cone of spread. Also real warfare is about chaos and improvising. So if an MG gunner is caught in a situation where he runs into the enemy inside a house you can bet a lot of money on the fact that he will actually do the rambo.

There is nothing realistic about how this is done in Ro2, in reallity this was a very heavy gun with a heavy recoil, to fire it from the hip you would have to be standing braced for the recoil, someone even posted a video of how to do it here, and just look at how hard the guy has to work just to remain standing with short bursts (and yes that's an MG-42, but the MG-34 woulden't be much easier than that).

And there's no way you should be able to whip that large and that heavy a gun around as if it weighed nothing, but in Ro2 it's as easy to handle as an SMG.


The MG's should not be hipfired on the move, and like in Ost you should have to press the IS button before you can fire it (with a short delay simulating the soldier getting into a braced fiering stance, which i'd love to see reflected in the 3'rd person model aswell), and the gun should feel heavy, when hipped there should be some lag between moving the mouse and the gun catching up to your new aim, simulating that it's heavy to swing that thing around.

 

[ARMY guy]

I always hip fire, in fact i pretty much use it only as an awesome mp40, and i never move when i hip fire. I am always stationary and crouched. Then it works ok, unless its huge distance.

 

[Apos]

In history MG-34 was used like that:

German Machine Gun MG34 - YouTube

MG34 - YouTube

Girl firing with mg-34 - YouTube

Prone position, recoil kick backwards (not upwards like in RO2). When deployed on bipod recoil is fully manageable (not in RO2).


I just don't understand why in RO2 some weapons are "realistic" and very easy to use (read SMGs) and some weapons recoil is "balanced" (read LMGs).

Representation of MG-34/42 recoil in Red Orchestra and Darkest Hour was so much better.

 

[CaseyHairyback]

We are seeing lots of hip firing because of the COD maps. I'm using mg also more hip, because of the small maps. When bigger maps start coming, hip firing will be gone...mostly.

 

[Mormegil]

@ OP: The shooter in the video is acting nuts. The recoil is not that bad, if you're shooting properly. Compare:

Army Soldier dual-wields some M249's - YouTube

Machine Gun Man - YouTube

MG-42 sturmfeuer (assault fire) - YouTube

I would like to see how accurate they are while moving and shooting, or shooting without time to get into that firing stance.


Another problem is, the inertia system has no effect on turning speed. You should not be able to whip around a 12 kg / 26 lbs weapon that fast.