• Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/

Suicidal and HoE still not not optimal fun-factor...

Downvotes are yummy. Anyway here's your overwhelming proof that you're mistaken:



Yes, note the choice of diction. These are 6 separate maps with different team and weapon set-ups in each scenario. The one constant is that they're all camping games - do you still think there's any sense to what you're saying?

Oh yeah in case this wasn't clear enough, these games were all held on public servers.

edit: oh wow I just noticed you said AK + dual HCs. I'll have to try that, that's BRILLIANT

Man, the guy those videos is TERRIBLE!!!!! GAWDD THE MIC SPAMMING IN ONE OF EM HURTS MY FACE!!!!

...... oh wait.........
 
Upvote 0
K. At the risk of 16 more senseless negs:

Camping is fun and alive but that doesn't discount the many Zerker kiters. Now that I've played a bit more recently the problem seems to have went down a bit. But the game code has not changed so it still exists.

Also, those videos show a nice team working together. That's very good.
They also show 6 people spending 99% of there time in the most common camping spots in the game. I'd love some variety. That was my whole point of suggesting slight speed boosts for all non Zerk/Medic classes. Having to relocate and refortify can be so much more exciting than waiting at the same door or cave entrance for 10 waves.




Another suggestion. It would be nice if people could lay a "rally point" down (simular to HoS) that would help teams meet to fortify. This may actually encourage teams to try different things. If the leader can specify exactly where to meet, teams won't have to resort to the same old spots. Perhaps to encourage this, zeds would spawn slightly more frequent if teams continue using the same camping spot to reflect the zeds learning from the previous round. A team that relocates gets a slight advantage by keeping the zeds on there toes as opposed to the predictable campers.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
They also show 6 people spending 99% of there time in the most common camping spots in the game.

Actually, people never camp the hill on Manor and as for Biohazard... That spot was just recently found out about, so not all of these spots are common.

On the other hand, all those other spots are common on the videos for, Foundry, Bedlam, Aperture, Bioticslab.

Note: This is referring to Suicidal / Hell on Earth.
 
Upvote 0
Another suggestion. It would be nice if people could lay a "rally point" down (simular to HoS) that would help teams meet to fortify. This may actually encourage teams to try different things. If the leader can specify exactly where to meet, teams won't have to resort to the same old spots. Perhaps to encourage this, zeds would spawn slightly more frequent if teams continue using the same camping spot to reflect the zeds learning from the previous round. A team that relocates gets a slight advantage by keeping the zeds on there toes as opposed to the predictable campers.

That's what mics and chat is for. :D
Just for my own curiosity, if you're killing all of the specimens when they come at you, how are they learning from that? XD
 
Upvote 0
Camping is fun and alive but that doesn't discount the many Zerker kiters.

I don't understand why you can't have both. I never made the claim that one should discount the other - if you read that somewhere, it was some other guy.

Anyway I grabbed those videos because they were the first thing I thought of, if you'd like to see more obscure spots that's definitely not a problem. It's more fun to find derpy places to hold I think.
 
Upvote 0
I think what it is, people are realizing that berserker takes hardly any skill at all to play, so they are going on to perks that require more skill.

Yea, because camping in one spot, with one entrance and concentrating all your fire power in to an opening no larger than a hallway or doorway requires massive skill.:rolleyes:

If you get 2 SS, 2 Support, 1 demo, and 1 other class, or any combination thereof, then the game is very easy, and no where near a challenge, unless it's players that have just started playing HoE.

I have over 1500 hours played, all level 6, and I can say without a doubt, that Zerking has a higher learning curve than camping. The big diff is that a lone zerker has a better chance of surviving than a lone Gun class does.

And now here comes the down votes.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
It had a steep learning curve until it was given MIGHTY SKIN OF STEEL. Now, while there is still much to learn, the learning of it is easier, because the execution of it is much more forgiving. Or, to put it another way, you still have to learn how to play Berserker, but you don't actually have to be any good at it to get results.

It's true that there aren't as many Badserkers running around as there used to be; the fad has eased off somewhat. However, the fact that its replacement in the popular consciousness is the buggy Hunting Shotgun Scrake kill doesn't make for much of an improvement. One form of cheesing has been supplanted by another form of cheesing. It's different, but not much better.
 
Upvote 0
It had a steep learning curve until it was given MIGHTY SKIN OF STEEL. Now, while there is still much to learn, the learning of it is easier, because the execution of it is much more forgiving. Or, to put it another way, you still have to learn how to play Berserker, but you don't actually have to be any good at it to get results.

It's true that there aren't as many Badserkers running around as there used to be; the fad has eased off somewhat. However, the fact that its replacement in the popular consciousness is the buggy Hunting Shotgun Scrake kill doesn't make for much of an improvement. One form of cheesing has been supplanted by another form of cheesing. It's different, but not much better.


In all honesty, it was easier before the patch. Back then Zerkers used the xbow to quickly deal with Sirens, Husks, Scrakes and FPs. Now they have to be delt with either with off perked weapons such as the LAR, and Scrakes and FPs have to be fought with melee weapons.

Even though they got a buff on damage resistance, it was balanced out with that change, and most zerkers that are in the average, to good range still have trouble dealing with the tougher zeds. I can't count how many Zerkers can't deal with Husks, Scrakes, and FPs, in any case it's a lot more than the number of zerkers that can.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sph34r
Upvote 0
I don't think you should take offense to berserker being called easy to play, Killing Floor is an extremely easy game generally! I think what this game does best is set a nice casual atmosphere for derpy play. If you want something difficult you probably wouldn't want to play PvE anyway.


I didn't take offense, and I agree that it's an easy game.

I'm just tired of the Zerker haters constantly portraing the zerker class as something so simple that anyone can master it in a matter of minutes, and that the other classes take months to become average, let alone good.

The classes that require the most skill and have the highest learning curve are Firebug, Zerker, and Medic, the other classes are noob friendly easy classes.

All the SS requires is headshots, and if you have played any FPS before, then that should come easy, plus the zeds are very slow giving you ample time to aim.

Support is so easy a Chimp could play it, and do well, as it's not much more than point and click.

Commando is easy, as you have 3 full auto weapons with lots of ammo to choose from, and 2 of them are very effective for everything under a Scrake, and if the player knows what they are doing, then a Scrake is not a threat either, and the Commando can also Kite a FP in needed.

Demos only drawbacks are ammo conservation and making sure you don't blow yourself up, other than that, it can kill anything in the game.


There are quite a few people in this forum that have to complain about one class or another. First it was the SS class (which was OPd), now it's the Zerker, after that it will be Support, ( I have allready seen several posts about Support being OPd), after that it will be the Demo, when all that is said and done then they will probably start complaining that the classes have been nerfed too much and/or that some of the Zeds are to powerfull.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
I didn't take offense, and I agree that it's an easy game.

I'm just tired of the Zerker haters constantly portraing the zerker class as something so simple that anyone can master it in a matter of minutes, and that the other classes take months to become average, let alone good.

Support is so easy a Chimp could play it, and do well, as it's not much more than point and click.


There are quite a few people in this forum that have to complain about one class or another. First it was the SS class (which was OPd), now it's the Zerker, after that it will be Support, ( I have allready seen several posts about Support being OPd), after that it will be the Demo, when all that is said and done then they will probably start complaining that the classes have been nerfed too much and/or that some of the Zeds are to powerfull.

Really, zerker is a high ceiling class? Holding mouse 1 and using WASD is not hard at all. Besides, I absolutely suck as zerker and have a really ****ty computer, yet I can hold my own as a zerker. So yeah, that has such a high skill ceiling.....

Support is as easy as point and click? Really? That's a joke there and I'm not even gonna touch that. Ok yes, the melee alt flinch/hunting shotty trick is a little cheap, but even so, you can legitimately kill a 6 man HoE scrake with 3 pump headshots and an alt hunting to the face if done right, OR 5 aa12 headshots and an alt hunting shot. If you are wondering how I mean a "legit" kill, it's not the backflip kill, it's the standing decap kill where the animation doesn't even show right, where they hunch their head for a second then walk around before falling over dead.

Medic takes no skill whatsoever, pretty much, shoot 2 darts, drop medic gun, pick up, shoot 2 more. Oh, if you're talking about body blocking as a medic, ok, how hard is it to use your body to make a FP move to the wall? Ok you're on an open map? Ok how hard is it to move in front of a FP that's raging to take the hit. Btw, if it's a raging FP, it's better for the Zerker with his GODLIKE damage resistance to take that hit anyway.

Firebug is a tougher perk to play well, but if you are smart and buy spare flamethrowers and mac10s you can easily survive up to wave 10 and on without having to be stuck using just 9mm at the end.

Demo has ammo problems? Are you shooting at single zeds? Wait till you get clumps of 3 or more and shoot then. Scrakes? Be smart and DON'T SHOOT THEM!! FPs? Ok a 6 man HoE FP dies to 3 nades and 2 M32 shots OR 2 nades and 3 M32 shots OR 2 pipe bombs, OR a pipe bomb a nade and an m32 shot. Don't even get me started on how easy Pipe bombs make HoE if you have a competent team that can throw you extra cash every wave. When you can put down 65 pipes at once on a map without having them blow up there's something wrong. (Don't believe me, I'll show you screenshots with upwards of 40 - 50 spread out on "pipe walls" or "pipe halls" to fall back to if anything goes wrong.)

And once again, I'll say the same quote I've said 6234234234 times, it's not the perks that are OP, it's the players that make them so. Zerker just happens to have the most forgiving learning curve because they have godly restistance that can protect them and allow them to engage any and all zeds.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Really, zerker is a high ceiling class? Holding mouse 1 and using WASD is not hard at all. Besides, I absolutely suck as zerker and have a really ****ty computer, yet I can hold my own as a zerker. So yeah, that has such a high skill ceiling.....

Hmmmm. You "absolutly suck" at zerker, but can "hold your own". That makes absolutly no sense what so ever, and qualifies as a contradiction, as you absolutly can't both suck and be able hold your own.

If zerker is nothing more than holding mouse 1 and using WSAD, then camping is nothing more that using mouse 1, and R.
Zerkers have to know the map inside out and backwards, have to control the spawn, prioritize targets, have constant situational awareness, and deal with muliple Zeds at the same time.
Camping teams huddle up in a small room, funnel Zeds into a small area/opening, point and click.

Support is as easy as point and click? Really? That's a joke there and I'm not even gonna touch that. Ok yes, the melee alt flinch/hunting shotty trick is a little cheap, but even so, you can legitimately kill a 6 man HoE scrake with 3 pump headshots and an alt hunting to the face if done right, OR 5 aa12 headshots and an alt hunting shot. If you are wondering how I mean a "legit" kill, it's not the backflip kill, it's the standing decap kill where the animation doesn't even show right, where they hunch their head for a second then walk around before falling over dead.

The AA12 and Hunting shotty is more than enough to kill a Scrake, it's not even a challenge, as far as the FP, 2 nades, and then the AA12. Big groups of zeds are taken down with 1 or 2 shots as all the Support weapons kill multiple zeds with a single shot, and aiming is not really a requirement, just point in the general direction, and click.

Medic takes no skill whatsoever, pretty much, shoot 2 darts, drop medic gun, pick up, shoot 2 more. Oh, if you're talking about body blocking as a medic, ok, how hard is it to use your body to make a FP move to the wall? Ok you're on an open map? Ok how hard is it to move in front of a FP that's raging to take the hit. Btw, if it's a raging FP, it's better for the Zerker with his GODLIKE damage resistance to take that hit anyway.

Medics have to move around a lot and hit players that are moving, if the Medic is supporting zerkers, then it takes darn good aiming, and they also have to deal with stray zeds while healing and moving.

Firebug is a tougher perk to play well, but if you are smart and buy spare flamethrowers and mac10s you can easily survive up to wave 10 and on without having to be stuck using just 9mm at the end.

If the player is good, then spare weapons are not needed, if the FB is using so much ammo that he needs spares, then that player sux.

Demo has ammo problems? Are you shooting at single zeds? Wait till you get clumps of 3 or more and shoot then. Scrakes? Be smart and DON'T SHOOT THEM!! FPs? Ok a 6 man HoE FP dies to 3 nades and 2 M32 shots OR 2 nades and 3 M32 shots OR 2 pipe bombs, OR a pipe bomb a nade and an m32 shot. Don't even get me started on how easy Pipe bombs make HoE if you have a competent team that can throw you extra cash every wave. When you can put down 65 pipes at once on a map without having them blow up there's something wrong. (Don't believe me, I'll show you screenshots with upwards of 40 - 50 spread out on "pipe walls" or "pipe halls" to fall back to if anything goes wrong.)

It does not change the fact that demo has limited ammo, and your senerio does not happen that often.

And once again, I'll say the same quote I've said 6234234234 times, it's not the perks that are OP, it's the players that make them so. Zerker just happens to have the most forgiving learning curve because they have godly restistance that can protect them and allow them to engage any and all zeds.


Yes, Zerkers have damage resistance, but they are not the damage Gods you and others make them out to be, and they can easily get killed in many situations if the zerker is not paying attention, or, depending on which zeds, tries to spearhead groups.

The way you and a few others make it sound, zerkers should never die.

I agree that the players abilities have much to do with it, but the zerker is not the only class able to effectivly engage any zed in the game.

The SS, Support, Demo, and with the right loadout the Medic can also engage any zed in the game.

As I have said. I have 1500+ hours, have played all classes to L6 and beyond(See stats below), and IMO, Zerker has a higher learning curve, is more challanging than the other classes, for sure way more of a callange than camping, and Support is the noob friendliest, easiest to play class there is.

My statts:
Medic- 1 million
Support- 45.5 million
SS- 61178 headshots
Commando- 35 million
Zerker- 73 million
FB- 28 million
Demo- 57.5 million
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Spicy and sph34r
Upvote 0