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Lockdown suggestion thread.

Colt .45 killer

Grizzled Veteran
May 19, 2006
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when I first heard about lockdown I though it would be an interesting idea and probably good. After playing the game for some 50+ hours I am at a thoroughly different opinion.

But first the basics for those who do not know why it was introduced, the idea was to alleviate loosing teams from having to take a horrible beating.

Now in list form, all of the ways I believe lockdown goes too far or has negative effects.

Attack by Attrition:
I have been part of a number of games already where the defenders are putting up a massively impressive defence, yet bleeding their tickets while doing so. The game then ends in a lockdown when the attackers had anywere from 10 all the way to 80 or 100 more tickets. Anyone can see where this would end up going if there was no lockdown, the attackers would win by killing all of the enemies, not taking the terrain.
Solution: Lockdown does not come into effect until the defenders have atleast 20 to 30% MORE respawn tickets then the attackers.


Endless Assault:
I was just playing a round of red october factory, we took obj A with some 45 seconds left till lockdown, however this only bumped the lockdown timer back to 2:30. We booked it to the welding shed and took that in 60 seconds. The lockdown timer STILL did not reset, and we had only 1:30 to take the next objective. On that we were unable to clear the axis out and cap in time. Lockdown timers forcing the attackers to change their strategy is ridiculous, especially when that strategy was winning all along.


The difference between a stalemate and a route
I think I really actually enjoyed some of those battles in Ost where every inch was worth a quart of blood, because that was the currency paid. They were not pitched battles for either side, but just struggles for both teams. A good match of wits, cunning, and ability that makes any objective difficult to take.
And then there were the maps you were on that were Route's, an absolute ****festered slaughter. However these were usually due to imballanced teams, or some fundamentally flawed map ( some of those customs were wacked ). This makes me wonder why TWI spent the time designing and coding the Lockdown deliverable into the complete product if the special case it is designed to stop is just that, a special case.
I dislike lockdown because it removes the opportunity to have long drawn out battles, instead increasing the temp. Why if we are just going to finish this map then play it all over again, why not let us enjoy our battle?

solution: I would like to see lockdown become a server configurable feature that admins can turn on and off. Lockdown itself should be tweaked so that it is a bit more generous and turns off after a location has been capped, and it should also only ever fire in the case when the attackers have less reinforcements then the defenders by a decently sized margin.

Discuss.
 
It was interesting when I first heard about it, although I rarely if ever had a problem with one sided battles in ROOST for which lockdown was supposedly created.

After playing for many hours, I too find Lockdown much more annoying than helpful for some of the reasons Colt mentioned above. To me, it seems to either try and speed up the gameplay and cause you to be unnecessarily careless or causes the map rounds to end way too soon if the game thinks its lopsided and players would rather end it and restart.

I'm sure there are players that like Lockdown, but the whole premise of it is based on something that the game cannot really predict (some scenarios mentioned by Colt above)

I would prefer it be a server side option to enable or disable it.

Good Post
 
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I have mixed feelings about it.

With the right implementation I think it could work. But at the moment it just puts too much pressure on the losing team who are already at odds.

One solution I've suggested before is to have the lockdown timer 'pause' so long as the attackers have as many or more players in a capture zone than the enemy does. (capturing or deadlock) This way they still have to push forward to succeed, but it's more forgiving because it stops counting down so long as the attacking team is making progress or at least holding their ground.
 
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I played a good 12 hours or so today, far too many rounds the attackers were on good footing but had to banzia charge due to a ticking timer.

Are just just trying to get this over with so we can get to doing nothing in time for our 4th smoke break? Considering we have 18 smoke breaks per soviet union work day, I think we can afford to miss one...
 
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One thing I really hate are the sudden ends. Today at Grain Elevator we capped foothold just in time before lockdown... I mean we had way more people in and the cap indicator was totally full for at least five seconds. And then we lost.
I felt cheated and I don't think many Russians felt like they deserved to win either, as we had just cleared few dozen of them from the objective.

This game needs similar over time like in Team Fortress 2, where rounds do not end if the capture is contested. So as long as there is some color in the indicator the fight goes on. Works wonders on "campnoob mentality" too, where people start to actually attack ONLY when they realize they got nothing to lose anymore. In TF2, more than often rounds are won on overtime. It unlocks the full potential of the team and forces them to do the final attack. This would create epic and intense fight at the end, instead of ... you know how lame it is now.
 
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One thing I really hate are the sudden ends. Today at Grain Elevator we capped foothold just in time before lockdown... I mean we had way more people in and the cap indicator was totally full for at least five seconds. And then we lost.
I felt cheated and I don't think many Russians felt like they deserved to win either, as we had just cleared few dozen of them from the objective.

This game needs similar over time like in Team Fortress 2, where rounds do not end if the capture is contested. So as long as there is some color in the indicator the fight goes on. Works wonders on "campnoob mentality" too, where people start to actually attack ONLY when they realize they got nothing to lose anymore. In TF2, more than often rounds are won on overtime. It unlocks the full potential of the team and forces them to do the final attack. This would create epic and intense fight at the end, instead of ... you know how lame it is now.


Yep we won on a few of those today, I felt sorry for the other team who had fought so valiantly only to receive a loose when they won.
 
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Lockdown is the one thing really breaking the game's tactical depth for me right now. I COULD try and slip around the side with my LMG, crawling the whole way, and cut off enemy reinforcements with accurate machine gun fire to try and give my team a chance at winning, but nope, only a minute thirty left on the lockdown clock, guess I should rush to the point and try to cap it before the arbitrary timer runs out.

It really ruins the ability for teams to really move cautiously and tactically, and often forces them into unrealistic tactics and outright one-sided gameplay (i.e. charging enemy positions head-on because they don't have time to flank, that kind of thing)

Honestly, I'd much rather struggle for an hour in a stacked match than have the game declare the mercy rule 5 minutes in. At least the struggle is just that, a struggle. I'm giving it my all, they're giving it their all, and we're both busting our asses to try and shatter the other side.

As it stands, it's just they're camping the point waiting for a timer to run out and we're zerging the point trying to keep the timer from running out. There's no tactical finesse to it, no victory through attrition or superior tactics. Just spam the point and prey you can overwhelm them through force of numbers.
 
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Well written nader, and for a second I was worried I had an argument on my hands! Of course I would invoke lockdown and defend my opinions for the next 2:31 until I would insta win!

:D:p


I should also add that lock down adds the defenders ability to throw their reinf tickets away and defend the position with reckless abandon. This works FAR too well, although simultaneously bleeding tickets of the defenders. But that doesn't matter because in arbitrary time X they win, even though their forces at that point without lockdown would be decimated.
 
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Mixed issue with lockdown

Mixed issue with lockdown

After endless iterations with RO:OST Leningrad, I was fiddling with exactly similar idea to lockdown mode in RO:HOS. For thos unfamiliar with Leningrad map, it basically boiled down to either a) allies succesfully defended and didn't lose the very first cap or b) allies lost right away/eventually 1st cap and axis won. In very rare cases axis took 1st cap with so little reinfo that allies were able to bleed them out, but that was rare indeed.

Now, the map was 30 mins long. If allies did held out, for axis it was a boring to throw reinfo to impenetrable defense - for 30 mins.

This scenario could have benefited a lot with lockdown feature, however, not just a single timer. I think e.g. a timer on 15 mins PLUS requirement that allies leftover reinfo is significantly greater, e.g. 55% allies vs. 45% axis, i.e. at least 10% points greater, only then would lockdown stop the game at 15 mins and shorten the pointless grinding.

Perhaps lockdown timer could be based on other things besides wall clock time?
 
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