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Why the Soviets are losing - analysis

Holy.Death

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 17, 2011
1,427
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We've seen a lot of topics claiming that Soviets are weaker than Axis for some reason, because they are losing more often. Here I intend to highlight possible factors which are:

1. Team behaviour.
2. Maps design.
3. Weapons & squad management & number of players.

1. Individuals are making up for a team and their actions are important:

A). They sit back, way too far from their cap zones to be helpful. Only snipers, elite riflemen or really good riflemen should fire from far, far away. To hold down ground you need to have more forces than the enemy. When half of the team is sitting back with little result they are more useless than someone just sitting against the wall within the zone. At least it's another warm body to help in mantaining control over the objective which in turn can help with the game via countdown.

B). They attack when they need to defend. They die, we have less tickets for later and that scenario can lead to our downfall because in a critical moment our reinforcements can get depleted and we lose the round because there is no one around to hold the zone.

C). More often that not it is a combination of these two. Some people sit back, some attack and in the end we lose zone after zone very fast, because there are too few men to actually defend/hold it.

D). Why one team is weaker than the other? I often saw that "the losing side" is often undermanned. People are tired of losing and they leave. Some other people fill their spots and there is very little team balancing based on actual skill. It's very accidential and doesn't contribute to evening the odds.

2. Maps are influencing the outcome in two ways:

A). On Pavlov's House you can see that the Allies have more difficult approach to 9th January Square and Zab's House - it's an open ground which is often under fire from Axis E and F points. On the other hand Germans can approach both objective under fire support and have more cover laying in their way to provide protection or concealment from the enemy who can't engage Germans as easily (remember that the Axis can lay suppressive fire from their main points to pin down the Soviets).

B). On Station the key lies in holding point B - if that place is lost then the Germans can fire from the upper windows to help their men to take over C. Railroad (point C) is exposed to B. Soviets need automatic weapons (which perform better in CQC and can suppress certain points) to lock down B and let their riflemen/long range rifles to boost C's defensive. Often inability to defend certain point on the map results in losing it and it's not that easy to maintain effective defense later on.

3. It's a compilation really:

We have a certain number of weapons divided into squads. The more players are there, the less specialized roles are possible to be taken and some people are forced to take bolt-action rifles. But the fewer nuber of player is, the more weapons they can take which leads to the opposite outcome - many specialized weapons and a handful (if any bolt-action rifles).

Your thoughts? Please, be constructive in your posts.
 
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Joseph-Porta said:
Uhm.. the deep covered trench to 9th is pritty darn good to get there ? =P its the germans who have to cover open ground to get there ^^
I often get killed trying to get into that trench. You need to go through the Zab's House which is often under attack too. Even the area between Pavlov's Block 1&2 and Zab's House isn't safe to thread because of tanks/snipers/assault teams. The Axis have destroyed truck/trains/garbage they can get cover behind while approaching the 9th January Square. Also, it's harder to lay suppressive fire from Pavlov's Block, because its windows aren't providing good view over 9th January Square (you need to use destroyed section with little cover and a good sniper can kill you from there). Even if I did manage to reach 9th Januar Square a good MG keep me there either from German base or from behind destroyed trains and I don't even dare to look out of the windows because I know I will get shot for doing so.

That's how I experienced it at least. Maybe I am all wrong.
 
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The Corner Ruins (I believe it is), is the issue. Having played both sides on that map now.....the Corner Ruins is an ideal building for a fire point, and Zab's House is its poor cousin.

All the objective facing windows of the Corner Ruins are perfect for keeping an eye on Zab's and the 9th of January Square. The Roof gives a perfect view both objectives AND the approach to the Corner Ruins. Anyone shooting from the roof or the windows facing the 9th of January Square has a full view of everyone running between Zab's and Pavlov's Block 1 & 2.

Meanwhile, 90% of the places in Zab's the Russians can shoot from are exposed since half the building is missing. It has very few windows facing the 9th of January Square either. Its roof isn't nearly as useful or provide a better field of view than the Corner Ruins. Pavlov's Housing Block provides much fewer windows, and it's best firing point facing the Corner Ruins and the 9th of January Square is wide open.

The only saving grace the Russians have on this map are those trenches connecting Zab's to the 9th of January Square. Get into those are you are mostly safe to assault the Square.

Anyone else out there though.....is basically at risk the whole time. I've had Germans shooting into the door leading out of the Russian spawn from the Corner Ruins. I mean, if we're pushed back from Zab's and are fighting for the Pavlov Blocks, I can see that happening when they're shooting from Zab's. But the Corner Ruins? A German MGer can literally spend the whole game there without moving and cover the entire battlefield from one building pretty much end to end. Russian MGers in Zab's can't make that claim at all.
 
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Your experience doesn't represent the other several thousand players. In my own experience the win/loss ratuo is 50/50. It all comes down to who the better team is. The only exception is Commissar House, that is the only map where I have seen the Russians lose 100% of the time.


Well i have seen Russian Teams roflstomp the Germans on Commissar, or the Russians get lockedowned.

Best Map balancewise seems to be Spartanovka so far.
 
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I often get killed trying to get into that trench. You need to go through the Zab's House which is often under attack too. Even the area between Pavlov's Block 1&2 and Zab's House isn't safe to thread because of tanks/snipers/assault teams. The Axis have destroyed truck/trains/garbage they can get cover behind while approaching the 9th January Square. Also, it's harder to lay suppressive fire from Pavlov's Block, because its windows aren't providing good view over 9th January Square (you need to use destroyed section with little cover and a good sniper can kill you from there). Even if I did manage to reach 9th Januar Square a good MG keep me there either from German base or from behind destroyed trains and I don't even dare to look out of the windows because I know I will get shot for doing so.

That's how I experienced it at least. Maybe I am all wrong.

you can easily rush to 9th before the germans reach it... its simply closer to russian spawn or something :3
 
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Team behaviour: I notice no difference in team behaviour, most people play both sides.

Map Design: I think there are more hidden approaches and flanking opportunities on Axis attack maps. More dark rooms to hide in and more open areas on Axis defence maps. Although this isn't a rule.

Weapons and number of players: I find the MP40II/g41/MKb/AVT more annoying on a historical sense than a balance one. Although they are plainly superior. Player numbers: Germans don't get more players, the winning team do. When Soviets start winning, they magically gain more players.
 
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The entire problem with Pavlov's House is how the Germans are protected in E and F by smoke and some weird blur that makes it hard if not impossible for the Russian to see the snipers, rifles and MGs hiding there. While the German have a clear view of the entire map.

These buildings are about the only place in RO2 where you can set up an MG and never move for an entire round without ever getting shot.

Also, attacking E and F as Russians seems a lot harder than attacking Pavlov's House North and South as the Germans. Even when the Russian team is superior and capable of Holding 9th Square and Zab's house, they run out of reinforcements trying to capture the German towers.
 
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You're over thinking it. Russians are losing because the Mkb is so epic and ought to be restricted to 1 player only, if at all, and because peoples' fascination with the Axis team is such that there's a near permanent imbalance of teams, and even if it's only 1 extra player, if he's really good it can make such a difference. If he's really good and using the Mkb, it's basically like having an extra 5 guys.
 
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These buildings are about the only place in RO2 where you can set up an MG and never move for an entire round without ever getting shot.
Truth. There is no other map I've played where I felt like saying "**** yeah MG!" like Pavlov's. None of the other maps cater to its strengths like this map, and no position caters better to it than that first German Point outside Zab's. And it's usefulness extends to pretty much every other weapon, including the AT rifle.
 
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A). They sit back, way too far from their cap zones to be helpful. Only snipers, elite riflemen or really good riflemen should fire from far, far away. To hold down ground you need to have more forces than the enemy. When half of the team is sitting back with little result they are more useless than someone just sitting against the wall within the zone. At least it's another warm body to help in mantaining control over the objective which in turn can help with the game via countdown.

B). They attack when they need to defend. They die, we have less tickets for later and that scenario can lead to our downfall because in a critical moment our reinforcements can get depleted and we lose the round because there is no one around to hold the zone.

C). More often that not it is a combination of these two. Some people sit back, some attack and in the end we lose zone after zone very fast, because there are too few men to actually defend/hold it.

Your thoughts? Please, be constructive in your posts.

100% Correct if teams ignore the objective they loose every time.

Also C). is a problem not mentioned often too many are in the mindset of attack always and grind their reinforcements down trying to retake an objective.If its a defense map and reinf are low its best just to fall back to the next objective and defend it.

On defense counter attacks can be good to retake a lost objective but you must be aware of reinf's and when its safer just to hang back and defend.
On the duel attack maps like Falling fighters for example you just need to hold C(central park)or more objectives to win.

I really think these duel attack maps confuse people as to "what do we need to do to win".Where on pure defense/offense maps its pretty simple victory conditions.RO takes alot of battlefield awareness knowing what to do at any given time.Why I love territory matches I always have a place to be wither its defense or offense.
 
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Uhm.. the deep covered trench to 9th is pritty darn good to get there ? =P its the germans who have to cover open ground to get there ^^

+1.

Pavlov's is the most imbalanced map for Axis and that is one of the main reasons.

Any Russian that uses that trench to reach the 9th Square building becomes sitting duck. They get picked off by the German tanks or the MGs in the towers and they can't shoot from the windows. All they can do is hide in the cellar. The Germans can also reach that building by safely running from cover to cover as there is usually very little fire coming from the Russian positions.

Also, that trench leading right inside Pavlov's house basement is a much greater asset to the German team. The Russian have nothing to help them get to the last 2 German position.
 
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i find its because of lockdown most of the time (play mostly 64 man servers). russians have to find a balance between attack and def, if they attack to much they beat the lockdown timer but end up losing all their renforcements and if they play too defensively the lockdown timer hits before anyone can capture the obj.

sometimes the team is veteran enough to hit the balance in the begining, but usually they finally get into the grove of things too late or not at all.

same for the germans too, though they are usually the defenders so they dont have to worry about time limits as much.
 
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