Red Orchestra 1 Mode
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Thats to do with fear of death, not accuracy.
If accuracy is decreased engagements will just happen at a smaller range, with just as many casualties.
hence why the mode with one life will hopefully see the use of more 'realistic' tactics.
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I agree with OP. The game is now more run-and-gun oriented, and the smaller maps are a testament to that. It seems like there are new features, but some really important things from the original are missing. Suppression needs to have a larger effect, and I don't mean more contrast on the black and white. In RO1 and Darkest Hour the suppression was supreme. Now it just doesn't feel as threatening.
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Gonna +1 this as well although i cant believe that this didnt come up in closed Beta , and the number of threads and discussion weve had about this, i am assuming that the devs are already talking about it internally.
Me personally i would like to see a bit more inaccuracy/sway with unsupported weapons.
As others have said looking at the weapon increases etc for leveling up i cant see that the increase in stability will even be noticeable from stock as its already almost completely steady while standing up now
Me personally i would like to see a bit more inaccuracy/sway with unsupported weapons.
As others have said looking at the weapon increases etc for leveling up i cant see that the increase in stability will even be noticeable from stock as its already almost completely steady while standing up now
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It seems silly to me for them to leave this to the mod community. A far more logical approach to securing even more players would be to implement a RO1-like system that satisfies the desires of players like us, while at the same time their existing mode will keep satisfied those who already see that as the way the game should be.
I would never dare generate this thread if it were not for RO1. I'll reiterate; many RO veterans do not like the CoD-like ease of aiming. They will be lost to TWI unless they try to accommodate them.
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My ideal mode:
1. Based off the current realistic mode
2. A very slight increase in sway, with a stronger increase when you're low on stamina. You should be able to shoot pretty well if you're not exhausted, but after some running you should need to brace your gun to shoot properly.
3. However, no change in movement speed and endurance. I think those values are good.
4. Stat progression is disabled.
5. Weapon unlocks are static. Everyone can get bayonets for rifles, select fire and drum mags for the PPSh, etc. The less historically accurate unlocks are totally restricted.
6. More RO1-like class limits (this would have to be tied to the map)
I think that's all.
There's a large minority that wants something more RO1 esque, and TWI made a mistake by not making an officially endorsed mode that's like that.
1. Based off the current realistic mode
2. A very slight increase in sway, with a stronger increase when you're low on stamina. You should be able to shoot pretty well if you're not exhausted, but after some running you should need to brace your gun to shoot properly.
3. However, no change in movement speed and endurance. I think those values are good.
4. Stat progression is disabled.
5. Weapon unlocks are static. Everyone can get bayonets for rifles, select fire and drum mags for the PPSh, etc. The less historically accurate unlocks are totally restricted.
6. More RO1-like class limits (this would have to be tied to the map)
I think that's all.
There's a large minority that wants something more RO1 esque, and TWI made a mistake by not making an officially endorsed mode that's like that.
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They don't even need to implement a new RO1-like system. The only thing they could do - to satisfy the RO1-vets - is to adjust some settings slightly in the hardcore-realism mode. I can't imagine that's a big deal..
We aren't even talking about a better Lockdown-/Bandage-System or whatever has been suggested yet.
On the other hand we should wait for the retail-version.
/e: bit too late, Scarf_Ace was faster. You're right. That'd be all.
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And suddenly the hardcore-realism mode stops simulating reality and switches over to simulating RO1.
RO1 vets should be given "Classic" mode but not at cost of other players. Have "Relaxed Realism", "Realism" and "Classic" server settings, don't replace "Realism" with unrealistic RO1 scheisse (overdone sway, very short sprint, nuke grenades, overdone recoil, very poor accuracy of pistols and SMGs).
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I agree with Rob.
I dont agree with aop and people that call for realism that ist the kind
of realism they know from Battlefield BC2 or MW.
Some things are not realistic at RO1, but i read the posts and think that
is not what the people want for RO2.
For me, it looks more like they want that things that was more realistic
at RO1 then in RO2, added to RO2.
Rifles are really very too accurate, also SMGs.
I think, its not caused by the weapon itself, then by aiming with
iron sights and how this is done at RO2.
In the real world, you got to mind parallaxe, canting, over- and
underholding while aiming, also movement in cause of breath and
more things.
At a game like RO you could not add aiming like in real, so at RO1
was the sway set to a level, that aiming alltogether was realistic.
YES, in real the sway is lower, but how would you add canting?
Should they reduce sway and add other realistic aiming?
So you first get your rifle up, bring the front sight up to the enemy,
then hold a button to get the rear sight to allign the front sight at
the vertical and horizontal axis, while turning your mouse at the
high axis to adjust the canting of the weapon?
Come on, at RO2 are the iron sights perfectly alligned and you only
have to get the front sight over the enemy.
The weapons, specially the rifles are as accurate and easy to aim
like a rifle with a modern holosight - that got mounted at modern
weapons, to solve the problems that you have while aiming with
iron sights - ironically.
High sway is only the result of compensating things, that could
not be added to a game, the resulting chance of getting a hit is
matching the chance of a real world rifle.
At RO2, you lift your head and every enemy that can only see the
top of your helmet can aim and place a headshoot in less the 1 second.
On maps like "fallen fighters", no one used the marksman class,
the rifle is as accurate and easier to aim.
I got to the same conviction like Rob, and wrote this things at a post
with suggestions. Before i wrote that, i used an original iron sight from
Heckler & Koch and watched a neighbours house.
Its less then 50 meters away, but the front sight (nearly the same size
used by any weapon) covered the half door.
And because i had to focus at the door, the iron sights got unsharp.
The smallest missallignment of the front and rear sight would make you
miss the target.
Thats why there are marksmans with scoped sights and MGs that
compensate the aiming troubles with more bullets.
Again, i agree to Rob and the others.
Aiming and aiming speed and as a result, the accuracy and quick aiming
at RO2 are VERY MUCH TOO HIGH and unrealistic.
Only causes everyone to camp behind walls, cause they fear to show up
their head, because they now they would got an instantly headshot
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The Hardcore-Realism mode is kinda Normal-Realism without any HUD, isn't it?
No gameplay-changes which make it more challenging or anything else.
I doubt anyone said RO1 would be that realistic, but many people like the actual gameplay-feeling of it. That's why it has lots of fans and is still being played quite well.
(btw. "Scheisse", it's a noun in this case
)
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in my Eyes this is the biggest problem of the game because everybody is capable of sniping with a normal rifle
in the first inf and tank map of the beta this was a huge problem
because when trying to capture the center of the map u had to allways stay down.
looking up for more then 3seconds and u got sniped from riflemen sitting in the big house at the spawn....
in the first inf and tank map of the beta this was a huge problem
because when trying to capture the center of the map u had to allways stay down.
looking up for more then 3seconds and u got sniped from riflemen sitting in the big house at the spawn....
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Bullet ballistics are up the creek for any mode to be called realsitic...penetration is the same no matter the distance...no wind taken into account.....is there even bullet drop? MP40's where designed for house to house clearing...they werent used nor where they designed like a modern assault rifle...also i think the distances are all messed up....you feel like you've been sniped from a great distance by say an MP40 but in game it was 100 metres away yet he seems so far away it looks more like 500. I don't know but I think the scale of the troops is to small and compared to the distances portrayed.
I also agree with the poster questioning how these old rifles where so perfectly aligned....I'd put money on it that if a STalingrad veteran could have had ago on this game he'd have laughed at the level of accurate firing...he would have most likely said if it was that accurate everyone would have been dead in the first couple of months of the invasion let alopne have reached Stalingrad in the first place.
People need to check out some casualty figures for coy size attacks lasting a whole day...you'd be surprised.
I also agree with the poster questioning how these old rifles where so perfectly aligned....I'd put money on it that if a STalingrad veteran could have had ago on this game he'd have laughed at the level of accurate firing...he would have most likely said if it was that accurate everyone would have been dead in the first couple of months of the invasion let alopne have reached Stalingrad in the first place.
People need to check out some casualty figures for coy size attacks lasting a whole day...you'd be surprised.
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Nice try, but I don't base my opinions on other games, I prefer these:I agree with Rob.
I dont agree with aop and people that call for realism that ist the kind
of realism they know from Battlefield BC2 or MW.
Some things are not realistic at RO1, but i read the posts and think that
is not what the people want for RO2.
For me, it looks more like they want that things that was more realistic
at RO1 then in RO2, added to RO2.
Rifles are really very too accurate, also SMGs.
I think, its not caused by the weapon itself, then by aiming with
iron sights and how this is done at RO2.
In the real world, you got to mind parallaxe, canting, over- and
underholding while aiming, also movement in cause of breath and
more things.
At a game like RO you could not add aiming like in real, so at RO1
was the sway set to a level, that aiming alltogether was realistic.
YES, in real the sway is lower, but how would you add canting?
Should they reduce sway and add other realistic aiming?
So you first get your rifle up, bring the front sight up to the enemy,
then hold a button to get the rear sight to allign the front sight at
the vertical and horizontal axis, while turning your mouse at the
high axis to adjust the canting of the weapon?
Come on, at RO2 are the iron sights perfectly alligned and you only
have to get the front sight over the enemy.
The weapons, specially the rifles are as accurate and easy to aim
like a rifle with a modern holosight - that got mounted at modern
weapons, to solve the problems that you have while aiming with
iron sights - ironically.
High sway is only the result of compensating things, that could
not be added to a game, the resulting chance of getting a hit is
matching the chance of a real world rifle.
At RO2, you lift your head and every enemy that can only see the
top of your helmet can aim and place a headshoot in less the 1 second.
On maps like "fallen fighters", no one used the marksman class,
the rifle is as accurate and easier to aim.
I got to the same conviction like Rob, and wrote this things at a post
with suggestions. Before i wrote that, i used an original iron sight from
Heckler & Koch and watched a neighbours house.
Its less then 50 meters away, but the front sight (nearly the same size
used by any weapon) covered the half door.
And because i had to focus at the door, the iron sights got unsharp.
The smallest missallignment of the front and rear sight would make you
miss the target.
Thats why there are marksmans with scoped sights and MGs that
compensate the aiming troubles with more bullets.
Again, i agree to Rob and the others.
Aiming and aiming speed and as a result, the accuracy and quick aiming
at RO2 are VERY MUCH TOO HIGH and unrealistic.
Only causes everyone to camp behind walls, cause they fear to show up
their head, because they now they would got an instantly headshot
Hitting a man sized target IRL is much easier than it's in RO1. I was always frustrated with how hard it was to hit anything in RO1.
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So what's the problem with adding "Classic" mode instead of replacing "Realism" with RO1 crap? Are you afraid that people would prefer "Realism" over "Classic" if it wasn't forced upon them and there would be not many servers for you yo play on?The Hardcore-Realism mode is kinda Normal-Realism without any HUD, isn't it?
No gameplay-changes which make it more challenging or anything else.
I doubt anyone said RO1 would be that realistic, but many people like the actual gameplay-feeling of it. That's why it has lots of fans and is still being played quite well.
(btw. "Scheisse", it's a noun in this case
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I completely agree with the OPs comments. It also would tie in nicely with my thread about bringing back the RO1 injuries.
In my personal opinion it seems like Tripwire have meant to implement weapon sway, injuries etc but it currently does not work or hasn't been put into the game yet?
My reasoning for this is: Whats the point of showing where you were shot if it doesn't actually effect you in anyway? What is the point of having a Weapon Sway reduction skill bonus if there is next to no weapon sway in the first place?
As much as i love Tripwire, i think they've overlooked a few features and not thought about the reasoning for others which have been added.
Don't get me wrong, seeing where you have been hit and having to bandage yourself is very cool but what is the point of knowing where you have been hit if it doesn't effect you in anyway?
EDIT: Another thing, which i think Tripwire have added but haven't actually got it setup working is Weapon Condition. What does it do if its Well Used or if its Standard Issue? Is there a difference or is it just a form of level ranking name?
In my personal opinion it seems like Tripwire have meant to implement weapon sway, injuries etc but it currently does not work or hasn't been put into the game yet?
My reasoning for this is: Whats the point of showing where you were shot if it doesn't actually effect you in anyway? What is the point of having a Weapon Sway reduction skill bonus if there is next to no weapon sway in the first place?
As much as i love Tripwire, i think they've overlooked a few features and not thought about the reasoning for others which have been added.
Don't get me wrong, seeing where you have been hit and having to bandage yourself is very cool but what is the point of knowing where you have been hit if it doesn't effect you in anyway?
EDIT: Another thing, which i think Tripwire have added but haven't actually got it setup working is Weapon Condition. What does it do if its Well Used or if its Standard Issue? Is there a difference or is it just a form of level ranking name?
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We have no fear of death in the game, thus no reason why we shouldn't poke our heads out to take a shot at the enemy.
Remember that many battles we have in this game involved 1000+ soldiers IRL instead of 64 ingame.
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Any range shooting of these rifles in no way simulates how effective they would be in a real combat situation. Some other guy posted in a thread some YouTube thing of him firing these rifles on 200 yd/m range and making good groups. He was doing this from a comfortable chair without any stress at all and great arm support.
If any of you guys think the ease of use of these weapons in game accurately represents their real life models, you are mistaken. It literally takes a moment in real life to acquire a target and line up the sights of a rifle even from a supported position. Presently in game all you have to do is right click and then left click on a target, there's little to no concentration required.
In RO1 a rested position was needed 9 times out of 10, and nobody would make shots after sprinting.
Now in RO2 I just spawn, hold down the sprint key, find a target, and click on a guy.
If any of you guys think the ease of use of these weapons in game accurately represents their real life models, you are mistaken. It literally takes a moment in real life to acquire a target and line up the sights of a rifle even from a supported position. Presently in game all you have to do is right click and then left click on a target, there's little to no concentration required.
In RO1 a rested position was needed 9 times out of 10, and nobody would make shots after sprinting.
Now in RO2 I just spawn, hold down the sprint key, find a target, and click on a guy.
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