Suggestion: ammo types and other stuff for perks via shop

[doom612]

What about different types of ammo and maybe some weapon mods via shop?
(I know that was in multiple threads before, but I think it's worth idea for start dedicated thread.
I consider the shop in KF is great idea, but i bet it is now bit underused and further potential is to be revealed.)
(and yes, let's discuss custom bullets, it was too much talks around sights, bayonets and attached grenade launchers)

Firebug now have powerful WP incendiary rounds, it's good for him. Other perks have'nt. I suggest to make other special ammo, available for other perks (maybe not from start but after wave 5 or only for lvl4+ perks). And the MAC-10 is now MUCH overpowered. Many firebugs use only MAC-10, is that good?. I think, the Firebug should buy inc. clips like others will do. In compensation, he'll got a new Flamethrower mode, fuel-saving and close-combat oriented spray mode.
Commando, for example, can buy spec. Armor-piercing and Hollow-pointed ammo for bullpup and AK.Armor-piercing load one clip, scoring damaging headshot on Scrake and Fleshpound, more recoil, less powerful on other freaks, but high penetration. Hollow-point have no penetration, scoring more damaging bodyshot, equal headshot, devastating against small zeds, can interrupt Charging attack of Fleshpound/scrakes. And Commando'll be unable to buy both, i think. Let one alter another, but do not alter default ammo, so the spec.'s are to have own stock, 3 mags/10 shells max.
Sharpshooter have similar option for lever-action and handcannon ammo.
Support may have access to door breaching round on shotgun (load one shell, fire one projectile, low damage, stun scrakes, instant remote unwielding door) and expensive slug or SABOT round on supershotgun (load two shells, causing devastating headshot on one enemy, near equal crossbow bolt, moderate accuracy, high penetration). (And 5 loads/10 shots maximum, yes).
Berzerker have no bullet options, but can buy special stimpacks: Painkiller drugs and Psycho injectors for syringe. First grant 100% temporal HP like Megahealth in quake, decreasing back to 0. Psycho is amphetamine-like combat stimulant, grant speed boost, faster and more damaging attack rate.
Demolition have spec. HE-slug (watch "the Expendables" movie) expensive ammo for regular shotgun or his own AA-12 model. Deadly, cause gibs and limbs flying, small splash, kill fleshpound in several shots but not much damaging scrake (cause Scrake taking little damage from explosions).

Medic have no new ammo, but have loadable darts for MP-7m. Poison darts causing damage over time, Confusion darts cause rage, affected monsters are charging nearest target or prefer to attack other ZED's if there are any
in sight.


Of course, difficulty of game must be increased for balance it.

 

[The_Holy_Diver]

everything sounds good but the demo idea, i dont think the kill a fp is good unless the round is wicked expensive. along with this people need to be given more time to buy? would this take up 1 cip or replace the whole load of ammo? would they be able to somehow choose the clip < if it didnt replace the whole load> and switch back to regular ammo in game?

 

[[UIT] Akame]

Discussed before. Mostly in the form of weapon mods.
Ammo is too much work unless it is tethered to a particular weapon and really doesn't affect much except explosive for demo and incendiary for firebug.

 

[doom612]

In fact, no need for more shopping-time or serious changes in game balance. just two small buttons on the weapon itself icon in your inventory. "buy spec.ammo 1", "buy spec.ammo 2". Prices on spec. ammo types should be moderate to high, providing some problem-solving capability for favorite guns of lower tiers instead of purchasing top guns.

Now, in the middle of the game Commando without SCAR is (for scrakes and fleshpounds) nothing but a victim with a rattling toy. With 'emergency' armor-piercing mag for 100 pounds he'll have much more chances for survive.

The only inevitable change for introduct it all is new "load alternate" keybind. It will load one shell in shotgun and LAR, and one clip in other guns. After all spec.ammo in clip spent, hit <load alt ammo> again, or hit <fire> for auto-reload with normal ammunition. If you just hit <R> for reload with general purpose ammunition, all remaining spec-ammo return to stock.

Oh, dont you think I suggest to one-shot the FP. The alt load I suggest should be comparable with top perk's rifle, i.e. spec.ammo bullpup's headshot slightly more or even slightly less powerful then SCAR's headshot. As you can see, I suggest ammo alteration only for 1 and 2 tier guns, top rifles have plenty of power, but are expensive.


Alot of work and balance tuning, yes, but if this idea will become a DLC for even 5$ cash, it wil be rewarded, I bet.

 

[Eureka]

I like the idea of custom ammo but I think I would rather see them used in the same way as the Firebug's MAC-10 ammo, as an automatic addition to balance and enhance weapons when used by their intended perk. The MAC-10 is an interesting backup alternative for any class that would snag a Handcannon at the same weight, yet in the hands of a Firebug it is truly deadly.

A lot of the current balance patch seems to be doing similar things, taking weapons that are globally overpowered (crossbow) and reducing their strength, then adding some bonuses for their intended perk. I would love to see Commandos packing armour-piercing rounds that gain the same kind of penetration as a Handcannon, for example, when using the SCAR. I never really saw the need for the damage reduction on the SCAR (and I'm happy to see it getting bumped back up again) but a single penetration would help Commandos in their perk role of taking out the trash without overbalancing them against the heavy hitters.

Alot of work and balance tuning, yes, but if this idea will become a DLC for even 5$ cash, it wil be rewarded, I bet.

Charging for game-changing content is a bad idea. I love the Tripwire model of offering cosmetic character packs for cash and content updates for free. I make a point of buying the character packs even if I don't like the characters to help support the game and make sure the developers have incentive to keep working on new stuff for my favourite Steam game.

 

[doom612]

It'll be a not so bad idea if the player will have a choice. Without this DLC player should just use generic guns and never mind the bollocks. But if he want some "fine tuning" 4 old good friends, he'll just buy this fun new bullets like he bought DLC for guy in those nice skeleton suit. 1,9 for suit, 4,9 for bullets sounds fair for me.

And the MAC-10 is now MUCH overpowered. Many firebugs use only MAC-10, is that good?. I think, the Firebug should buy inc. clips like others will do.

 

[timur]

It'll be a not so bad idea if the player will have a choice. Without this DLC player should just use generic guns and never mind the bollocks. But if he want some "fine tuning" 4 old good friends, he'll just buy this fun new bullets like he bought DLC for guy in those nice skeleton suit. 1,9 for suit, 4,9 for bullets sounds fair for me.

And the MAC-10 is now MUCH overpowered. Many firebugs use only MAC-10, is that good?. I think, the Firebug should buy inc. clips like others will do.

Wait, are you asking for DLC ammo packs where you pay real money? No way, mate, TWI has stuck with only cosmetic DLC, and I hope it stays that way. At the moment, due to problems with online payment, I couldn't even buy it; and give an advantage to players who pay more? I sincerely hope TWI has more integrity than that.

And as for the MAC10, the main reason it is used w/out a flamer is because people want to make room for the crossbow, which will be unnessecary once 1016 goes public.

 

[[UIT] Akame]

@doom, regarding implementation
The concept behind implementing such a system is relatively easy. I could write all day on how to improve the game with this system and that system, but TWI is spending time that they could use to make a profit to provide free content to us, the users. More than that, it takes a lot of time to modify code and interfaces.


If you (i.e. anyone) wish to get an idea implemented, you should show how their idea is easy to implement, that it has a good and lasting impact on gameplay (or is a necessary change), and that it won't take TWI weeks of testing and balance patches to get working.

You have got to persuade both the community (since TWI is highly invested in their fan base) and TWI (it is a business at the end of the day). This forum is about refining ideas and changes that TWI might not of thought of or didn't think the community was interested in.

 

[CandleJack]

What about different types of ammo and maybe some weapon mods via shop?
(I know that was in multiple threads before, but I think it's worth idea for start dedicated thread.
I consider the shop in KF is great idea, but i bet it is now bit underused and further potential is to be revealed.)
(and yes, let's discuss custom bullets, it was too much talks around sights, bayonets and attached grenade launchers)

Firebug now have powerful WP incendiary rounds, it's good for him. Other perks have'nt. I suggest to make other special ammo, available for other perks (maybe not from start but after wave 5 or only for lvl4+ perks). And the MAC-10 is now MUCH overpowered. Many firebugs use only MAC-10, is that good?. I think, the Firebug should buy inc. clips like others will do. In compensation, he'll got a new Flamethrower mode, fuel-saving and close-combat oriented spray mode.
Commando, for example, can buy spec. Armor-piercing and Hollow-pointed ammo for bullpup and AK.Armor-piercing load one clip, scoring damaging headshot on Scrake and Fleshpound, more recoil, less powerful on other freaks, but high penetration. Hollow-point have no penetration, less accurate, scoring more damaging bodyshot, equal headshot, devastating against small zeds, can interrupt Charging attack of Fleshpound/scrakes. And Commando'll be unable to buy both, i think. Let one alter another, but do not alter default ammo, so the spec.'s are to have own stock, 3 mags/10 shells max.
Sharpshooter have similar option for lever-action and handcannon ammo.
Support may have access to door breaching round on shotgun (load one shell, fire one projectile, low damage, stun scrakes, instant remote unwielding door) and expensive slug or SABOT round on supershotgun (load two shells, causing devastating headshot on one enemy, near equal crossbow bolt, moderate accuracy, high penetration). (And 5 loads/10 shots maximum, yes).
Berzerker have no bullet options, but can buy special stimpacks: Painkiller drugs and Psycho injectors for syringe. First grant 100% temporal HP like Megahealth in quake, decreasing back to 0. Psycho is amphetamine-like combat stimulant, grant speed boost, faster and more damaging attack rate.
Demolition have spec. HE-slug (watch "the Expendables" movie) expensive ammo for regular shotgun or his own AA-12 model. Deadly, cause gibs and limbs flying, small splash, kill fleshpound in several shots but not much damaging scrake (cause Scrake taking little damage from explosions).

Medic have no new ammo, but have loadable darts for MP-7m. Poison darts causing damage over time, Confusion darts cause rage, affected monsters are charging nearest target or prefer to attack other ZED's if there are any
in sight.


Of course, difficulty of game must be increased for balance it.

Hollow-points less accurate? Snipers use hollow-points because they're more accurate. They move the centre of mass back farther towards the rear of the bullet, making it more stable during flight.

Though more damage and no penetration i like

HE slugs? Are you referring to the FRAG-12 grenades for the AA12?

Overall, no. As with the other threads, it's too overpowered and/or would take more effort than TWI has to expend.

 

[doom612]

Hollow-points less accurate? Snipers use hollow-points because they're more accurate. They move the centre of mass back farther towards the rear of the bullet, making it more stable during flight.

Though more damage and no penetration i like

Less accurate not because of their inaccuracy in real life. It's cause I wanted some duality (as I know, in RL armor-piercing bullets are less accurate because of lesser mass and worse balance)). But cause I already have "antiarmor" = "headshot only, body dmg low", I think of "antiflesh" = "bodyshot equal headshot". Also, I wanted both assault rifles with high penetration and charge-interrupting attacks.

HE slugs? Are you referring to the FRAG-12 grenades for the AA12?

Yep).

Of course It's all just my vision. I like some "gun porn" element in KF). But I don't like overpowers, and of course it'll have to be balanced well. People speak about "more lethal" difficulty and stuff. It'll be more Fleshpounds and Scrakes in waves, I bet.
and btw
Maybe I'm not alone, who want subtypes of mobs and more charging attacks?

 

[CandleJack]

Less accurate not because of their inaccuracy in real life. It's cause I wanted some duality (as I know, in RL armor-piercing bullets are less accurate because of lesser mass and worse balance)). But cause I already have "antiarmor" = "headshot only, body dmg low", I think of "antiflesh" = "bodyshot equal headshot". Also, I wanted both assault rifles with high penetration and charge-interrupting attacks.

Armour-piercing rounds aren't more inaccurate. They're just purpose-made to pierce, and thus are made from harder materials, a la steel, titanium, etc.

Nothing i have come across has ever said that armour-piercing ammunition is less accurate nor do they have less mass. They would have equal balance to regular bullets and are in fact denser than regular bullets to help defeat armour.

 

[doom612]

Nothing i have come across has ever said that armour-piercing ammunition is less accurate nor do they have less mass.

I was wrong. Real AP ammo may have wider spread, like .50 BMG, but it's just because .50 BMG AP are basic round for heavy machinegun, which only benefits from wider spread.

but it's hard offtop, by the way.

 

[CandleJack]

I was wrong. Real AP ammo may have wider spread, like .50 BMG, but it's just because .50 BMG AP are basic round for heavy machinegun, which only benefits from wider spread.

but it's hard offtop, by the way.

It only has wider spread because it's belted MG ammo. Sniper ammunition is match-grade, so it's more accurate first-off.

MG ammo isn't designed to be accurate, because MGs are for suppressive fire and area destruction.

That's why the L86A1 failed. It was too accurate.

 

[Undedd Jester]

Being the old school stickler that I am, I will always use the Flamethrower over the MAC-10. It is simply more efficient. No need for headshots, and of course it is much easier to maintain sustained fire. Fuel Tank > MAC Magazine anyday.

The MAC is only used more cause it is light and allows people to carry other overpowered weapons like the Xbow. Those people have no right to call themselves a Firebug.

ofc once the beta comes out the Xbow will be useless for Firebugs anyday, and these kinda players can get the hell off my perk

On to the point: The MAC-10 acts a support for the Flamethrower filling in its weakness of not getting critical headshots. The incendiary rounds are to keep the weapon a fire based weapon, but it isn't supposed to replace the flamethrower. It will always be inferior. The Firebug needed a lower tier weapon and he got one. The other suggestions make other perks more powerful in different roles, something they do not need.