EDIT: Now that I've seen how long this post is, my sincerest thanks to anyone who actually reads the whole thing.
I'm going to tackle a lot of things at once here, and I won't get through them all with just this post, but I think through the course of this thread we can break a lot of ground, and I also wanted to offer a perspective on this issue.
Buffing/nerfing pistols, esp. the MK23 and .44 Magnum, has been discussed a lot. The way I see it, there's only one way to do it: pistols are sidearms, they are inherently secondary weapons, and the only way all of them can work is if each has a unique purpose, a healthy niche. As such they must not only be compared to each other, but to other weapons that are used as secondaries.
(I'll need some help from you Sui/HoE folks since as we've established in the past I don't know jack about them; also, correct me if I'm wrong about anything here)
The weapons to be addressed here are (both single and dual for each):
9mm Pistol
.44 Magnum
MK23
Handcannon
Flare Revolver
And the other low-tier (or at least cost-effective) weapons that commonly see use as secondaries:
Lever-Action Rifle
Bullpup
Shotgun
Hunting Shotgun
M79
Machete
As for how to handle each one, factors of balance include damage per shot, fire rate, ammo capacity (both single mag and spare), price, and weight. These determine the current role of the weapon, and changing them will determine the new role of the weapon.
The goal is for every pistol to be useful for something, so ideally they'll all have different roles. Dual pistols should be noted as well, as they can serve a different role from single pistols. One or more of the pistols could be balanced such that their niche is in dual form rather than single.
Some examples of roles include trash cleaning, effective pairing with specific high-tier primary weapons, low-budget options, low-weight options,
There are a number of questions that must be addressed for all the weapons, and a few to be addressed only for specific ones.
First: what is each of these weapons for, or rather, what is it best at? What sets it apart from the others and makes players choose it over another?
A common purpose for secondaries, especially for the Berserker, Demolitions, and maybe the Support Specialist, is the ability to one-shot Crawlers with a bodyshot, and/or quickly dispatch other trash.
The Lever-Action Rifle is the undisputed champion of this role. The Flare Revolver makes a nice alternative. On any difficulty except Hell on Earth, the Handcannon does this too. What sets apart the Lever-Action Rifle is also that it is the single best low-budget weapon, being now the only one with a base cost <=250.
To be honest, as good and well-balanced as the LAR seems now, it really should only serve one of these two purposes. It's a tough decision; to reduce its power would make the Flare Revolver a more important weapon, which would make DLC perhaps too important. To increase its cost would leave no spawn budget option, so other weapons would need to replace it there.
I have a strange proposition for the 9mm. Currently of course it's the basic pistol, everyone spawns with one and always has one, it's the permanent backup weapon but any other pistol outclasses it entirely. It's not bad, it just doesn't seem worthy of note. But what about Dual 9mms? Currently, they're really not useful. Though they provide good capacity and continued flashlight use, you lose the aid of iron sights and still don't have much damage output. There's not really much reason to buy them over anything else.
UNLESS: change the Dual 9mm's weight from 4 to 1 (so buying them with nothing else except the base spawn equipment would result in 2 weight blocks filled). With this change, the Dual 9mms could be carried at the same time as the M99. Without opening the can of worms that that rifle is, surely it could use a decent secondary. Dual 9mms could fill that niche.
Some people claim the MK23 is overpowered. What makes it so much better than anything else? On higher difficulties it doesn't one-shot Crawlers. This is an honest question, what role does it fill?
Next, what to do with the .44 Magnum? Its damage isn't great, its reload is slow, it's got the expected low capacity. Currently, it just sits in the trader's shop gathering dust. It needs a role.
One idea is to reduce its price to 150, to make it a spawn budget option.
Another would be to buff its damage (and maybe reload speed) in coordination with changes to the MK23 and Handcannon giving each of them a niche like I said before.
The Bullpup serves one purpose as a backup weapon, and really one purpose only: if you have the spare weight, you can carry it and switch to it whenever a Stalker comes your way, allowing you to make progress towards the Commando's Stalker kill requirements while playing other perks. The rifle cleans some trash okay as well, but it's not as good as other options.
Still to be addressed are the other "secondary" weapons I mentioned, and how effective they are in various roles
I'm going to tackle a lot of things at once here, and I won't get through them all with just this post, but I think through the course of this thread we can break a lot of ground, and I also wanted to offer a perspective on this issue.
Buffing/nerfing pistols, esp. the MK23 and .44 Magnum, has been discussed a lot. The way I see it, there's only one way to do it: pistols are sidearms, they are inherently secondary weapons, and the only way all of them can work is if each has a unique purpose, a healthy niche. As such they must not only be compared to each other, but to other weapons that are used as secondaries.
(I'll need some help from you Sui/HoE folks since as we've established in the past I don't know jack about them; also, correct me if I'm wrong about anything here)
The weapons to be addressed here are (both single and dual for each):
9mm Pistol
.44 Magnum
MK23
Handcannon
Flare Revolver
And the other low-tier (or at least cost-effective) weapons that commonly see use as secondaries:
Lever-Action Rifle
Bullpup
Shotgun
Hunting Shotgun
M79
Machete
As for how to handle each one, factors of balance include damage per shot, fire rate, ammo capacity (both single mag and spare), price, and weight. These determine the current role of the weapon, and changing them will determine the new role of the weapon.
The goal is for every pistol to be useful for something, so ideally they'll all have different roles. Dual pistols should be noted as well, as they can serve a different role from single pistols. One or more of the pistols could be balanced such that their niche is in dual form rather than single.
Some examples of roles include trash cleaning, effective pairing with specific high-tier primary weapons, low-budget options, low-weight options,
There are a number of questions that must be addressed for all the weapons, and a few to be addressed only for specific ones.
First: what is each of these weapons for, or rather, what is it best at? What sets it apart from the others and makes players choose it over another?
A common purpose for secondaries, especially for the Berserker, Demolitions, and maybe the Support Specialist, is the ability to one-shot Crawlers with a bodyshot, and/or quickly dispatch other trash.
The Lever-Action Rifle is the undisputed champion of this role. The Flare Revolver makes a nice alternative. On any difficulty except Hell on Earth, the Handcannon does this too. What sets apart the Lever-Action Rifle is also that it is the single best low-budget weapon, being now the only one with a base cost <=250.
To be honest, as good and well-balanced as the LAR seems now, it really should only serve one of these two purposes. It's a tough decision; to reduce its power would make the Flare Revolver a more important weapon, which would make DLC perhaps too important. To increase its cost would leave no spawn budget option, so other weapons would need to replace it there.
I have a strange proposition for the 9mm. Currently of course it's the basic pistol, everyone spawns with one and always has one, it's the permanent backup weapon but any other pistol outclasses it entirely. It's not bad, it just doesn't seem worthy of note. But what about Dual 9mms? Currently, they're really not useful. Though they provide good capacity and continued flashlight use, you lose the aid of iron sights and still don't have much damage output. There's not really much reason to buy them over anything else.
UNLESS: change the Dual 9mm's weight from 4 to 1 (so buying them with nothing else except the base spawn equipment would result in 2 weight blocks filled). With this change, the Dual 9mms could be carried at the same time as the M99. Without opening the can of worms that that rifle is, surely it could use a decent secondary. Dual 9mms could fill that niche.
Some people claim the MK23 is overpowered. What makes it so much better than anything else? On higher difficulties it doesn't one-shot Crawlers. This is an honest question, what role does it fill?
Next, what to do with the .44 Magnum? Its damage isn't great, its reload is slow, it's got the expected low capacity. Currently, it just sits in the trader's shop gathering dust. It needs a role.
One idea is to reduce its price to 150, to make it a spawn budget option.
Another would be to buff its damage (and maybe reload speed) in coordination with changes to the MK23 and Handcannon giving each of them a niche like I said before.
The Bullpup serves one purpose as a backup weapon, and really one purpose only: if you have the spare weight, you can carry it and switch to it whenever a Stalker comes your way, allowing you to make progress towards the Commando's Stalker kill requirements while playing other perks. The rifle cleans some trash okay as well, but it's not as good as other options.
Still to be addressed are the other "secondary" weapons I mentioned, and how effective they are in various roles
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But if it were to happen, your changes seem decent.
