Firstly, Undedd Jester, what I was saying is you use a really bad example, because solo or rambo have totally playstyle difference to mutiplayer. If this is considered personal attack, my apologize.
I'd also like to point out scary ghost has frequently been the voice of rationality, and he (if I understood him correctly) backed the notion that the Berserker was overpowered. He first raised the Zerker issue during the BETA, he was right, but sadly other poeple didn't see. Including myself for which I am now kicking myself for not properly testing the Zerker before the beta was through.
Nutter butter has at times been a little curt with his responses, I've had arguements with him before. However he always backs up his points with evidence, and my interpretation is he has little patience for people who don't return the favour. He did in that thread, and he has in his others. The only difference is I have to get really mad to make this kind of response.
Umm... so you think... players in beta are average players? You think 90% of players can do what beta players can do...? I see many 6lv berserkers try to take on fleshpounds, they either fail to dodge his attack, or axe them in the face twice/back stab them to rage them. And most berserkers fail to hit the head of scrakes. This is what 90% of players do.
What makes M14 "that overpowered" before is you can kill if you can shoot. And this is not what is happening to berserkers now. Sure they can kite, but ONLY WHEN the whole team dies OR they are not player the way intended, i.e. ramboing. Berserkers actually NEED to hit the heads now because damage is halfed. Body shot dont kill, and you will be surrounded.
Why we need to kill any possibilities to survive? This is the question I'm always asking. We even have an achievement for that!! Also, berserkers is only THE most possible perk to win, any other perks can also possible to do so.
The 2 main things I have pointed out are: -
- The Berserker is the only class that can solo any specimen in the game. This is due to the Fleshpound rage mechanics being exploitable and the fact that he is too fast to get hit by the Flehspound swing.
Sharpshooter... again... can also take down full health 6-man HoE fleshpounds with M14, and stun scrakes with LAR (and because not much people can do that, so this is called balanced by most of the people). Decap anything under bloat in one 9mm shot. And in fact medic can also dodge fps attack and keep kiting just like berserker, you just need double amont of strikes with melee weapons.
- His speed is akin to that of the Level 6 Level Up Medic who could run 30% speed. This speed was later nerfed since it was deemed overpowered due the medic's ability to Kite, EXACTLY what the Berserker is excellent at now.
I personally dont find that 5% really matter..., that 5% is only noticable when you are doing some long rage runing, aka ramboing or soloing. If you stick with the team, you dont really need to run for too long.
Lets make 2 things clear.
1) I don't have a vendetta against kiting perce', if the team can win from it then fair enough. The issue is born out of being able capably solo regardless of the enemy spawn. This is why the Katana nerf, the XBow Nerf, AND the Clot Jumping Nerf were all introduced to hamper the Medic.
2) No class is meant to be able to solo everything, that is what the whole purpose of the Beta was to sort out. It was also pretty much unanimously agreed that no perk, other than maybe the Demo should be capable of soloing a Fleshpound.
No perk is intended to solo everything "together on their own" I will add. Switching weapon is actually costing your time, especially on suicidal and HoE, because zeds are FAST. Sure old day sharpshooter can one-shot anything, however sometime they miss or get owned. Because teamated fail to kill those two crawlers closing in, which makes the sharpshooter need to switch weapon twice.
In one-on-one suituation, support is possible to solo fleshpounds. Why this is not happening most of the time is because support is also known as "trash cleaner" so if the support only focus on fleshpounds, trash will swarm the team. So most of the time supports is not doing full damage to fleshpounds. If a one-on-one suituation is there, meaning great team work is there, which is a good thing.
As for the points as to why I've raised this issue, I'll list them below.
So Ok fine, the Berserker is good at kiting, and most likely will always be good at kiting. This does not however mean we should make him an absolute God at it. He should still have an achilles heel, which every other class in the game has. Right now he only has things that cause him irritation, nothing that actually strikes terror into his heart.
The Fleshpound is meant to be a game changer. Every class fears him, no matter what skill level, because if you make a slight mistake its pretty much game over. This isn't the case with the Berserker as there are ample abilities in place to protect you if you do make a mistake. Even if you aren't good enough to consistently use this exploit 100% of the time, you still survive the hit, heal up and try again. You are never truly punished for making this mistake, unless you amke another one. This means a perk is overpowered!
Even if my view on how the Berserker should be played is wrong (which I guarantee I have done myself, and I know a few poeple off the top of my head who can do the same) this arguement that the Berserker needs to solo everything in order to be useful is total bullcrap.
I only want the last one surviving at least "stand a chance" to win. It is a stupid idea to tell everyone to suicide when people start to die BECAUSE YOU ARE IMPOSSOBLE TO WIN already.
ANY class based game uses the same simple principle. Different classes are good against some things, poor against others. By making the Berserker capable of ramboing so efficiently you are undermined the entire point of a class based game. You might as well just strip the other classes out of the game if your gonna keep 1 class capable of killing everything.
Why keep talking about the playstyle not intended...? Ramdo is not the way intended, and you cannot stop people from doing that. Berserkers is only really killing every zed easily when he is alone. When you are restrict to a 10m * 10m square, you cant really be good against endless gorefasts and crawlers.
So onto this speed issue. The arguement that the classic rambo Medic could shoot guns while running at 30% speed whereas the Berserker needs a weapon to run is also a load of tosh. Firstly a gun slows the player down, whereas a melee weapon doesn't. Medics would most likely run at 25% possibly even 20% with a gun. Furthermore how many times do you no scope over a long range? You don't, you use ADS. So if you use the LAR on a Zerker, the same way the rambo Medic did, you run away with amelee weapon in hand, pull out your LAR and take a shot, swap back and run some more.
As I've said countless times the clot grab is a game changer. Without a headshot the rambo Medic gets stuck, and will usually get surrounded and beaten to hell at best, killed at worst. The Zerker however doesn't get stuck and furthermore can cut down clots or anything in his way alot easier. Admittedly The Medic should get punished in this situation, and this is where the Zerker should excel... but please explain to me why the Zerker needs this insane speed boost? The clot grab resistance is already an invaluable tool, what requires this 30% speed boost on top so that NOTHING can hope to keep up?
Answer: There isn't one. If your good enough to survive already, losing a little of this speed boost sin't going to change your game much... except when taking on Fleshpounds. See above.
Again.... I never consider that 5% really matter...
So after all that. Finally I hope you can actually see where the problem lies. The small fixes I wanted was: -
- Fix the Fleshpound rage mechanics so that unsuccessful swings do not reset the rage timer, and losing line of sight merely pauses his rage timer instead of resetting it.
- Further make it so the Fleshpound rages continuously at a certain point of health, be it 50%, 33%, 25%, orwhatever. This would affect all kiting classes.
- Make the Zerker no faster than the Medic, whether the Medic is 25% speed on HoE or 20%. If the Medic, who has a real hard time keeping ZEDs off of him doesn't need this speed boost, a class that can punch a hole through and escape with ease sure as hell doesn't need it either.
Next time try and keep this professional. If you have a point of view fine, but don't rubbish someone elses, especially if you don't understand what they are talking about
J* out
About those two rage mechanics change you mention: if you are the last one, fps spawns with one-man worth health. 5 alt-fire to the head he's dead. So berserkers can still kill it easily by dodge his first attack while axe his head, alt-fire again to rage, alt-twice when raging, and finish off before he even hits you.
On 6-man games, nothing really changed. If they go rambo, they can just kite the pound back to the team. (again, you will never be able to stop rambo players if they really want to rambo)
Speed bonus, i dont really care about that 5%... (but I always think medic should be faster than berserker in order to effectively heal them)
Again, I dont mean to attack anyone, I just think you used a really bad example. Solo has nothing like mutiplayer.