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You know it's a good gun when it physically distorts sounds

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#21
mowskwoz said:
Use what you like. Have a good time. There's always going to be some weapon or tactic that other people don't like no matter what game. Realistic or not ( I have no idea) it's there. If that's your gun, tear it up.

I won't lie, when I shoot a guy who's using the MKB, I get my own little achievement. When I pick it up and mow down the rest of his squad, I get another one.

It's just a mini boss battle. I like the challenge.
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Take a look at my sig. That's exactly what I used to feel like. I was even enjoying the challenge somewhat back when there were eleven Mkbs on the Axis side. Firefight was even better--facing down 25+ Mkbs on Station with nothing but a trusty Mosin-Nagant bayonet... and earning the most kills on my team. It's worn off by now.

Don't get me wrong--the Mkb is far from invincible. Far from it. You have to be one step above the competition, however. You need to outwit them, outshoot them, cook a grenade and toss it over their cover...

Kill one in the NCO Barracks at the start of the map. Empty some extra rounds into the corpse in contempt :D. Wait for smoke, charge across into infirmary. Hear Mkb around the corner. Cook F1 grenade. Toss. Boom. Turn corner, walk past corpse still holding Mkb--same guy as before. Move to upper floor. Get nailed through the wall by Mkb firing from warehouse. Same guy as before. I kill them. They respawn. They kill me. Repeat. They're common enough and persistent enough that it doesn't mean anything special anymore.

Sure, people complain about power weapons in Halo, or the P90/AK74U/MP40 in the CoD series... but Red Orchestra: Ostfront was a realistic team-based game, and Red Orchestra 2 is still a mostly realistic team-based game.

"Use what you like," you say, "don't diss others using what they want," he says. That's not the point of Red Orchestra! Don't you see? Gameplay in Red Orchestra isn't about your favorite loadout and how much you can dominate all the other loadouts with your favorite loadout *cough*. Gameplay shouldn't be about what you want as an individual, and what you like or want should only matter because you're an integral part of a TEAM working to take the next objective. My clan-mate Placebo Cyanide was Vasily Zaitsev himself with a PTRD--not because he could own every German with it, but because we could count on him to position himself on the third floor of the Anti-tank position in Leningrad and take out the Panzer III before it tossed too many high-explosive shells in its walls.

And don't even get me started on immersion. BADABAADABAABAM!!!! Is this Stalingrad? Or is this Berlin in 1945? Is it too much to ask that I be able to feel like I'm fighting in Stalingrad when the entire game is set in Stalingrad? :confused:

I still have fun with Red Orchestra 2. That's why I'm giving my two cents--I think the game can be further improved by limiting the Mkb's availability along with other rare weapons. The loadouts between the two sides will become more reflective of the historically asymmetric balance that existed between them. And I might just actually start feeling like it's December 25th, 1942 when I charge across the icy fields near the Commissar's House.
 
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#23
Nikita said:
A very good response
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Thank you for stating your thoughts so clearly and civilly Nikita. I appreciate it.

I'm not an RO vet and I know embarrassingly little about WWII. It would be an understatement to say we go into RO2 with a different mindset. I understand your ideas about wanting RO2 to be more representative of the battles that took place there. I don't disagree with that at all. If limiting the use of some weapons would make that so, I'm not against it. Really, it would make little difference to me.

What I do have a hard time with is the amount of people who do very much the opposite of your post and dismiss a gun and the person who uses it because it's not how they "should" play the game. Not everyone approaches this game from a realistic standpoint. Not everyone is here to recreate these battles. Some people want to chill out and play some FPS and they're going to grab the baddest assed gun they can. They're going to run around with an MG34 hip firing at everyone in front of them. They're going to get the MKB and get a k/d of 100/20. It's there. I can adjust myself, but I can't adjust others.

If nothing else, our common ground can be that with this game, and not really much else on the market right now, there's the possibility of things changing through the devs or SDK.

With a game that has a somewhat divided community, that's a really good thing.
 
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#25
Of course the MKB owns. It's an assault rifle, and the only one in the bunch. They're superior at close and mid-ranges to SMGs and rifles by design. The only way for them to be in the game is to be superior, or they wouldn't make sense. The issue isn't of their power, it's of their being completely out of place at entirely.

That said...

Nikita said:
"Use what you like," you say, "don't diss others using what they want," he says. That's not the point of Red Orchestra! Don't you see? Gameplay in Red Orchestra isn't about your favorite loadout and how much you can dominate all the other loadouts with your favorite loadout *cough*. Gameplay shouldn't be about what you want as an individual, and what you like or want should only matter because you're an integral part of a TEAM working to take the next objective.
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This this, for the love of god this. RO wasn't about that, and RO2 shouldn't have been made about that. My only real gripe with the game is that the weapon leveling and unlocks (class leveling is fine as implemented) have changed the nature of the game just enough to be irksome.

It's nothing against someone using the MKB, or the MG34 with 500 rounds of ammo. They're not bad people or juvenile, that's them playing smart and doing what they can to help their team. It's that those options should not even be there to begin with.
 
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#26
The Mkb sucks. It really exemplifies why traditional unlocks and progression just don't fit in to RO (the Hero system as originally described might have worked, but that just didn't happen).

Overpowered weapons can fit in, but they need to be special. In CoD1 there were some overpowered assault rifles that had a high rate of fire, and they also had large scopes and could be toggled to single fire mode. They kicked ***, but there were only a few of them, and they were scattered in supply boxes.
 
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#28
wooki said:
If I hadn't frequented this forum I wouldn't have known it is a evil gun.
But I do so I wont touch it. I am usually a very level headed gamer who doesn't swear or throw fits while playing but every time someone shoots me with it I mutter something halfheard about Effing noobs.
I learned to hate it here :)
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It just makes the game far too easy because it has no serious weaknesses (some people say that it isn't great at range but I've found it to be a reliable one-shot-kill weapon up to ~150m which is only a tiny bit shy of matching the SA rifles). I don't 'hate' the players that use it but I do tend to ignore their position on the scoreboard when measuring how well others are doing; it's like I consider them to be playing another game that's somehow interfering with my own.
 
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#29
I agree I hate the damned thing being so common. Same goes for any rare things in the game. They need to be rare. Double magazines on the mp40... for everybody ?? Just silly.

This if anything is the one thing in the game that makes me hate a little.

Another thing that makes me hate is the rarer weapons like the captured mg34 being used by the russians. The odds of being shot by your own side alone increase 10 fold.
I can understand a kar98 or other things that were not so precious but for the mg34 to be captured in such numbers that they are being faced every game in ro2 is just silly.
 
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#30
mowskwoz said:
What I do have a hard time with is the amount of people who do very much the opposite of your post and dismiss a gun and the person who uses it because it's not how they "should" play the game. Not everyone approaches this game from a realistic standpoint. Not everyone is here to recreate these battles. Some people want to chill out and play some FPS and they're going to grab the baddest assed gun they can. They're going to run around with an MG34 hip firing at everyone in front of them. They're going to get the MKB and get a k/d of 100/20. It's there. I can adjust myself, but I can't adjust others.
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The point is, they should not have been able to run around while hipfiring an MG34 or go on a rambo run with the MKB in the first place.
You could hipfire the MG34 in RO1 and it worked perfectly fine there, you had to click right mouse button to deploy it in a hipfire position, you were reduced to a slow walk and when you fired it you could get a few shots off before hitting the ceiling. It worked perfectly, MG'ers got a way to defend themselves when not deployed in a fixed position without becoming overpowered.
Right now people are simply ENCOURAGED to run around and spray with it, because it is just so easy to do, there is literally NO downside.

The MKB is a good assault weapon for obvious reasons and my personal beef with it is that it's too present still for historical authenticity, and many players naturally gravitate toward it because it allows you to do pretty much anything.
When I tried it I felt dirty using it, I felt like I was trolling and grieving people when I shot them with it.
Now this is not a rage of 'OMG I CANT FACE MKB' because i'm a pretty efficient rifleman player most times and I manage to kill most MKB players before they hit me due to smart positioning etc.

I guess what gets to me is that RO always used to be a game which you had to learn to play. Becoming good at it required patience and learning a style of play that fitted each class, playing to outsmart your opponent.
It was something of a hunting game with humans being the prey, and becoming good was something to be proud of.
You still have to learn some stuff in RO2 but weapons like the MKB allow you to completely circumvent it and rape stuff right off the bat.
I get that that is what expected by new players these days and even though that fact makes me mighty sad I get it, but that doesnt mean I can't severely dislike it.
There are many, many easy games to get into, and RO wasn't one of them. Neither should it have become one.

That's not an elitist talking, though. If you think about it, for any game to become easier to get into means for it to be made simpler, sacrificing what made the first game unique and popular in the first place.
That's not to say streamlining stuff is a bad thing, but it has to be done RIGHT.
Now, TWI did a lot of things right: the mantling system, the MG deployment on objects etc all work wonderfully, the cover system is easy to get into and use, the tactical overlay you get when you press T works really well to guide people around.
But the hipfiring capabilities of the MG's and the general ease of use of the MKB is not part of it. You don't require any skill to use them.

And then there is the fact that the MKB was supposed to be a rare weapon.
When the MKB got available for use with one of the patches there were MORE MKB's than MP40's, and there usually still are.
There is simply NO reason for people to pick the MP40 over the MKB, other than reasons of principle.
And even though there was a patch that reduced the assault class there are still over 3 MKB's or so at any given time, and even more when the Russians start to unlock German gear.
The overpresence and overuse of the MKB, especially during the earlier days leaves such a bad taste in my mouth that even when I encounter it now, when it's more rare, I still despise it.
There was a moment where I could have lived with the addition of the MKB if they had kept their promise and the weapon would have been rare from the getgo, but now I just want it to be gone forever.
 
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#31
View attachment 9066
mowskwoz said:
What I do have a hard time with is the amount of people who do very much the opposite of your post and dismiss a gun and the person who uses it because it's not how they "should" play the game. Not everyone approaches this game from a realistic standpoint. Not everyone is here to recreate these battles. Some people want to chill out and play some FPS and they're going to grab the baddest assed gun they can. They're going to run around with an MG34 hip firing at everyone in front of them. They're going to get the MKB and get a k/d of 100/20. It's there. I can adjust myself, but I can't adjust others.

If nothing else, our common ground can be that with this game, and not really much else on the market right now, there's the possibility of things changing through the devs or SDK.

With a game that has a somewhat divided community, that's a really good thing.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I just hope that realistic weapons will become a server option or something--I don't want to take the Mkb away from anyone who genuinely likes it. I just don't want it as such a big part of my RO2 experience.

Let the casual crowd have their Mkb. I can live with that. It's just that the realism crowd should have the right to play without it present. It's there, and it can stay, as long as I can avoid it.
 
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#32
Nice thread, i'll add my two cents to it.

Mkb is beloved by many people, because of it's superior power on the battlefield, everybody likes being on top.

However, i don't like it at all :

- First of all : Its sound often makes me lower my sound level because it hurts my ears for real, not just that i dont like the sound, but it's horrible, a real pain.

- Second : There are still too many of them, and even too many auto / semi-auto weaps, i heard bolts were around 70% of total guns in a RO1 game, now they are more like 30%... >>> Immersion killed.

- Third : Both teams can have it... wtf ? There were like 100 mkb's in Stalingrad and the ruskies stole half of them or something ?


Devs understood there is a problem with auto / semi-auto number, and have reduced the problem, but it is still there...

I have had more epic bolt rifle battles on COD 1 (Tactical crouch server - Mosin or Kar only), than on RO2... That's sad, because not only immersion level is lowered, but also the skill level required is lowered.

Everyone can own with a Mkb, not everyone can with a Kar 98 or Mosin Nagant.

Anyway, i'm having a lot of fun on the game and will carry on playing, but am waiting for some rectifications in terms of gameplay.

I'll keep shooting Mkb's with my Bolt or Pistol and ruining Mkbiatches (^^) faces.
 
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#34
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#36
Nikita said:
Without exaggeration, it actually makes me think twice every time I'm about to boot up the game.
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agreed

Whenever i feel like playing and am about to start the game, i remember the MP40/II, MKB42, saddle drums, etc and instantly my urge to play vanishes.

I just end up playing Arkham City or Skyrim instead...

they have done a good job modeling it though, it behaves rather realistically (i've had the privilege of firing an STG44); which means it dominates everything else.
 
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