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WWAUT - Fleshing Out SWAT

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#21
Not going to lie, Im heartbroken we dont get an LMG, and the Vector is just adding salt to the wound 'one of the most terrible SMGs ever, but it looks coooool :DDD, so it MUST be better than the widely used and reliable MP5' im hoping 'Martial Artist' really "is not what we are expecting" like you said in the livestream and it comes with an LMG or im going to be pissed, along with most of the community (who have been requesting an LMG since KF1)
 
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#22
OoOo man, M4 203 and SWAT perk! I have to cool down my hype and admit there is some needed tweaking in the perk skills. I don't think anyone would pick Tactical Movement and Close Combat Training, it is just that the other perk choice is better or just more preferable. (I would just pick Tactical Movement for the lols) I'm very interested on the lvl. 25 Battering Ram. How powerful is the knockdown, I wonder? I really hope M4 203 is useful unlike in KF1. Maybe buff the rife damage a little more, but however, I really love sounds and the model! Well I can't wait for the beta-opt! Killing floor 2 is shaping up to be an amazing game!
 
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#23
Yoshiro;n2265547 said:
Most of the assault weapons are getting a sound pass in this update (except for the AK I believe).
Click to expand...

That is one AWESOME surprise. You made my day.

I'm not that into the weapon set for swat, not against it, just not too fond of them, but depending on how they end up, and more importantly for me if they SOUND good, then i'll be very happy.

The skills are a bit odd here and there but i think it looks good overall, a doubt about Heavy Armor Training, taking no health dmg would mean that you take 100% dmg to armor making you go through it a lot faster than others and spend more money on it? leaving outside the topic of how often you get hit compared to others.

the commando and swat backup type skills dont make that much sense to me in that there is not much place to use them unless you go out of your way to save a bit more money, they'd make more sense if like in KF1 you'd spawn without tier1 weapons on the first wave, unless you get to X level of perk.
 
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#26
Ah! Called it for the focuses of the perk! It depends on what the "perk balance" will bring but I feel that the SWAT's skills are quite good...better than most perks actually (meaning that their effects are bigger) .

However,I have to say I'm disappointed by his arsenal... Let's say it's nothing special. I would have loved something "funky" and unique. Either something like a Z.E.D. gun, an exotic SMG or even the much praised "shield" . But we'll see how his weapons feels in-game. I would have also liked an increase of armor for him ,but I guess that it conflicted with the medic bonus (plus you could already have 100% armor at the beginning of the game with the right skills)



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Glad for the return of the M4 w/M203 for the demo, even though it was the gun I wanted the least from the old arsenal of the demolitions (now if only we could get Ash Hardings in this update...)
 
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#27
Looks like we can anticipate a very good first pass update. My only disappointment is that the SWAT is too SMG focused. Would have liked to have seen a spread of weapons (SMG, Shotgun, Sniper rifle/Assault Rifle) and for it to have a tool for smashing welded doors open in an instant but you can all have it all.

The skills im so-so with. I expect there will be a few changes. The most likely will be the pistols going. I wouldnt mind seeing a cross-perk skill say for the pump-action shotguns.... :)
 
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#28
Well, no point in sugarcoating it. I've got to be honest: I'm extremely disappointed. I figured I would be, because SWAT is exactly what everyone speculated it would be. SWAT looks like a perk that is taking absolutely no risks whatsoever. What does he add to the game at all, besides just being Commando with extra armor? He doesn't do anything unique at all. He's just a guy with full auto weapons, exactly like Commando, and with many of the same exact skills. You could have made the class all about locking down areas with set-up and tear-down MGs, or at the very least just given him LMGs. Just give him something that can't be done with other classes. I'm rather annoyed I have to say this now, because this is exactly what I said months ago before the class was ever even confirmed. The only, and I mean the only, interesting skill in that tree is Battering Ram, and that's a freaking ZED time skill anyway.

Then you guys bring back literally one of the crappiest and most unpopular weapons in KF1. You had every opportunity to either make something completely new or bring back a multiple-shot grenade launcher like the M32, and instead you pick the M4 M203? Why? I will admit that the model looks really nice, but just why? Even back in KF1, people thought it was out of place and didn't feel like a dedicated Demo weapon! I remember joking that this is the weapon that you'd bring back, and then you go and actually do it...

Closing note: just please, please be more adventurous with Martial Artist (or whatever the perk is going to be called). Please make it something really unique and interesting that fills a role other perks don't do, like an engineer class or a mad scientist class or something. If I have to see another cookie cutter gun class, I think I'm going to cry.
 
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#31
Survii;n2265557 said:
Not going to lie, Im heartbroken we dont get an LMG, and the Vector is just adding salt to the wound 'one of the most terrible SMGs ever, but it looks coooool :DDD, so it MUST be better than the widely used and reliable MP5' im hoping 'Martial Artist' really "is not what we are expecting" like you said in the livestream and it comes with an LMG or im going to be pissed, along with most of the community (who have been requesting an LMG since KF1)
Click to expand...

Martial Artist with an LMG? That is an... interesting take on the Martial Artist concept!
 
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#34
Personally, I was expecting something a lot more crowd control oriented, like tasers.

There are a lot of skills here that don't really diversify the class roles unfortunately.

I know this sounds kinda cheesy, but I was really hoping we could get some kind of literal Shock trooper, with a giant tesla gun as the T4 weapon.

Perhaps electrified rounds or something?
 
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#35
Good way to start: you want the two trees to be thematically different: tanking vs fast/utility.

Passives:
Why do you have a passive that is only useful for one wave (bullet resistance)?

Level 5:
Heavy Armor Training is way too good. It will be picked 95% of the time instead of tactical movement. , It'll make more sense if you moved anti-clot grab to tactical movement, because you want the right tree to be a slippery, fast moving SWAT. On the other hand, taking the left tree and being a tanky dude, I don’t mind being grabbed by clots.

Level 10:
This is the most underwhelming tier TBH. Commando already has backup bonus, and even on them it’s pretty useless as we, the players, do not want to use the pistol/knives more than we should. We want to be able to use SWAT weapons as SWAT. Also, Tactical reload is only a stat boost. Those kind of perks are uninteresting and do not change our playstyle. Also it is very unnoticeable, or at least not appreciated enough.

Level 15:
Stumble can be a double edge sword. It can save people from being mowed down, or it can cause a sharpshooter to miss his headshot. Ammo Vest is again a stat boost and is boring, independent of if people pick it or not.

Level 20:
Ehhhhhhh yes I have to agree that doubling down on armor is a pretty interesting tactic. Also the fact that it compete against the slow perk is excellent. Making the slow take multiple hit and not unique to leg shot is a well-crafted perk, for me at least. You can shoot the head for a weaker slow and that’s ok!

Level 25:
Ram should be fun!

I like the demo’s new M4. Finally something to kill lone trash as demo.
 
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#36
PurpleFanta;n2265538 said:
Its important to note that he's using swat on a demo weapon.
It's also important to note how awesome the gun sounds ;)
Click to expand...
That's true, but it's clear the weapon is supposed to be favourable to off-perk use, as they mentioned. Besides, killing two Clots takes little effort with an assault rifle, there's really no point in using a grenade launcher for that ;) .
 
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#38
I can't help but expect some rather jarring problems with the upcoming update.

First thing's first... the MP7. The reason why the Firebug can get away with a Tier 1 automatic weapon is because the Caulk n Burn has very limited range. Bullet weapons don't have that downside, so I can only see one of two things happening: it'll be extremely overpowered or extremely underpowered. IMHO, i think a pistol carbine would work since you'd be looking at a semi-automatic weapon using an SMG's form factor

Second is the M4A1. We already have a weapon using the AR15 upper and lower receivers, which will likely cause some silhouette confusion. This would most likely affect newer players than more experienced ones, though I'd like to not have my death result from a new player mistaking the Commando's T1 weapon for the Demo's T3. I think a better choice of assault rifle would've been the G36c. While it does have its own proprietary underslung GL, it can still nonetheless support the M203, so it's possible for the in-game model to use M4A1 animations.
 
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#40
M4203 looks pretty sweet.

Swat looks pretty cool too.
Does the skill that makes it so you don't lose health until all your armor is gone make your armor less efficient? Say I would take 10 damage and I had armor; I would normally lose say 7 armor and 3 health (not the actual ratio, just an example), with the skill would the armor take the full 10 damage or would I just lose the 7 armor and ignore the 3 damage that would be done to health?
Either way it seems OK; the only real purpose I see for it is avoiding movement speed loss from having low health (since you rarely die with armor left over, this skill wouldn't make you die any slower unless it works by ignoring the health damage and not redirecting it towards more armor damage).

Also nice work at getting SWAT polished up so fast. Although I've really got my eyes more on what perk you guys have got planned for the final perk since in the dev stream they said it wasn't going to be what everyone expected.
 
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