why even have levelling?

[Jr175]

I ask the exact same question. The drops are random ,but if that what the guy said is true then yeah why aren't the item drops tied to leveling a perk up?
Oh yeah I know why...because this is another one of those MT's complainers that came from KF2 steam discussion board here in order to complain.
Please....
stay in the KF2 steam discussion board. That's where people like that guy belong

That isn't his point actually. It was more along the lines of using a bad system to entice the use of another for profits in a conspiracy type of manner.

Also:

Problem with this idea is also testing leveling. Part of the beta state of the game is getting the leveling speed right and if you can just go "well, ima 1 click it to 25" then your just skipping what ends up being a major part of the game and miss that feedback.

With the first 4 perks the, "rate" at which one gets their perk to 25 could've been measured already. The multiple recent additions to the perk roster also allow for more measurements to be more accurate and allow refinements to be done to future builds.

Yeah, the play testers can test level 25 perks but they also don't understand the struggle of getting their, it could very much be the case that a perk is very playable at 25 but useless before a certain point (Demo for example which stats out very crappy but gets somewhat better later on) so people who would need to play that legit would need to struggle though it or just end up dropping the perk.

You know, the whole point of the OP is, "is leveling even necessary?". It doesn't have to be that way if the leveling is reduced or done away with completely. I know it serves the purpose of teaching players how to play the perks and even the game as a whole, but back then and even now it does a horrendous job of it.

The other thing is people don't want to spend all their time grinding in a game like killing floor, people want to actually use the perks to their fullest potential instead of having to spend a bunch of time leveling. Really when you look at it getting to 25 with 10 perks at the current speed (especially with some perks getting nothing for bonus xp) mean a lot of people will just pick 1 or 2 they like and stick to them. Even worse people might actually get a perk to 25, realize it's not for them and just not bother playing anymore.

I'm all but certain this is basically the state that the game is mostly in for most people who play/own the game.

Even if it isn't removed completely, it would be less of a chore to play the game if there was less grind for sure.

 

[Quadruplesword]

I thought of something that could help ease your leveling up woes. Why not add a Call of Duty style challenges system, where by completing challenges rewards you with bonus XP? I loved these in Call of Duty 4; not only were they great for getting lots of XP to level up fast, but they were also just fun and satisfying to accomplish.

 

[hardcore_gamer]

Why do people care so much about leveling up?

Why do people care so much about leveling up?

I don't get it. I just don't.

This isn't an RPG. This is a arcade wave based co-op shooter. It's the gameplay that makes the game fun. The fact that you can level your perks up over time and gain new abilities adds extra spice, but it's not the whole point of the game. I just feel completely baffled when I hear people say that they have given up on the game because they have leveled up their characters or because they feel that reaching the next level takes too long. Does this mean they don't enjoy the actual game part of the game and are only playing to level up?

 

[avgnfan26]

Because of the ability to play on Sui or above, if level 15's on on HoE they'll pretty much always be kicked. Leveling matters because it lets you advance your game and give you new abilities via the perk tree

 

[Jr175]

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=115050

like 3 pages in because no bumps lol

 

[Rocker Fox]

Because some perks are ENTIRELY DEPENDENT on levels in order for them to even be usable.

Demo is the worst for this in my opinion. Every single bit of talk about playing on higher level involves Siren Resist, Knockdown and oh look, everyone's favorite 1 trick pony ability, Nuke. On top of that the extra ammo is a must considering the weapons have so little in the way of it.

It's really easy to say levels don't matter when playing a Commando, Gunslinger or Firebug as they start out really good and just get even better later. Commando can just spray trash down pretty easily and not really have to worry about much. Gunslinger is a monster due to it's ability to tear apart everything at any level. Firebug just murders everything starting out and just gets more powerful as time goes on, hell when you get fully stocked you can get your later weapons even faster because no starting ammo cost for a full load.

On the other end playing zerker is a case where you need to have the levels or you can't tank properly. Medic also kinda needs it to get the extra heals and the Armor repair. Support needs the damage, reload, hp and not to mention a lot of people freak out if you don't have supplier.

It's not a problem if your playing a perk that starts out really powerful but if you want to play demo for example then no fun can be had till your at least level 15 in the current state of the game.

 

[hardcore_gamer]

Demo is the worst

The big problem with the demo is the total lack of a useful tier 2 weapon. It breaks the class and makes it useless on anything above normal.

 

[Jr175]

The big problem with the demo is the total lack of a useful tier 2 weapon. It breaks the class and makes it useless on anything above normal.

Not early in levels as you don't get as many but still, C4 as pseudo grenades work better than the M79 in practice and price to performance actually.

 

[moleculo]

I don't get it. I just don't.

This isn't an RPG. This is a arcade wave based co-op shooter. It's the gameplay that makes the game fun. The fact that you can level your perks up over time and gain new abilities adds extra spice, but it's not the whole point of the game. I just feel completely baffled when I hear people say that they have given up on the game because they have leveled up their characters or because they feel that reaching the next level takes too long. Does this mean they don't enjoy the actual game part of the game and are only playing to level up?

They probably meant they don't want to level the other classes up in boring normal difficulty games. That's what's been keeping me from playing. That and Fleshpounds

You see maybe they don't wanna play the old perks but also don't want to play normal+hard for something like 10 hours before getting to play suicidal/HOE with all their abilities unlocked.

 

[nejcooo]

I don't get it. I just don't.

This isn't an RPG. This is a arcade wave based co-op shooter. It's the gameplay that makes the game fun. The fact that you can level your perks up over time and gain new abilities adds extra spice, but it's not the whole point of the game. I just feel completely baffled when I hear people say that they have given up on the game because they have leveled up their characters or because they feel that reaching the next level takes too long. Does this mean they don't enjoy the actual game part of the game and are only playing to level up?

Cuz I could survive X scenario if I was 25, but if I was 20 I couldn't.

 

[HeatSurge]

First, people are spoiled by games where things labeled "Hard" weren't really - mostly in consoly games where people would just give up if the game is too hard even on "Hard" and their hand isn't being held - a phenomenon which started occurring in the early 2000s as gaming became more popular. In KF, Hard is supposed to be... hard. You just can't jump into "Hard" or "Suicidal" and win. People new to KF are often surprised by that.

Second, who doesn't want to be the badass of the server. That's kind of the entire point of competitive KF. And having to put in time to achieve that in today's society of instant gratification puts people off. Many people want to get in and win. They don't want challenge, resistance, or having to put in effort. There is an arbitrariness as in all RPGs, but I'm not opposed to the leveling concept. For me, it was part of the fun.

Third, if people play because of the level, that's their own business. I enjoy the gameplay of KF, and the leveling was fun on top of that, even though it does feel somewhat grindy in KF; I would've probably made it three times faster.

 

[Rocker Fox]

First, people are spoiled by games where things labeled "Hard" weren't really - mostly in consoly games where people would just give up if the game is too hard even on "Hard" and their hand isn't being held - a phenomenon which started occurring in the early 2000s as gaming became more popular. In KF, Hard is supposed to be... hard. You just can't jump into "Hard" or "Suicidal" and win. People new to KF are often surprised by that.

Second, who doesn't want to be the badass of the server. That's kind of the entire point of competitive KF. And having to put in time to achieve that in today's society of instant gratification puts people off. Many people want to get in and win. They don't want challenge, resistance, or having to put in effort. There is an arbitrariness as in all RPGs, but I'm not opposed to the leveling concept. For me, it was part of the fun.

Third, if people play because of the level, that's their own business. I enjoy the gameplay of KF, and the leveling was fun on top of that, even though it does feel somewhat grindy in KF; I would've probably made it three times faster.

Yeah but eve in both cases 1 and 2 there are exceptions to the rule. Gunslinger for example can easily jump in on a higher difficulty than you have any business doing and wreck things due to having really high damage weaponry. Once you get firebug to even 15 most of the things that give him trouble just melts.

Meanwhile you have this really big disparity with (yes, i know i keep repeating myself but it needs to be said) Demo where he really isn't playable to any degree until you level him up. Same deal mostly with Support, a lot of what makes those perks good isn't really there until you put time into it.

I got commando to 25 pretty easy and was like "oh, leveling is happening naturally" since it felt like i was getting better and better instead of struggling with what i had and requiring the next thing. With a few other perks it's an uphill battle, especially due to the secondary xp condition being pretty crappy.

Feel like it's a lot less about leveling itself but some perks being an absolute pain to get them up.

 

[Aleflippy]

Probably because,just like a RPG,you recieve bonuses for doing so.

Firstly,you recieve new skills which increase your firepower and overal usefulness which might add something new to your gaming experience. Needless to say,it's always handy to reload faster or to have more bullets in the mag!

Secondly,these skills as well as the increase in stats are greatly needed in harder difficulties while the progress in levels can be considered "training". A high-level player who never truly played won't do well in suicidal/hell on earth, while a killing floor 1 veteran while have a bad time to stay alive without the precious skill and stats increase.


So well ,in Killing Floor, levels aren't just some kind of "reward" , they are also good indicators of your progress in the game and your ability to go on harder difficulties. That's why people care so much about it (at least from my point-of-view)

 

[Veny]

I am the kind of player who need some goal. I love grinding, leveling, upgrading etc.
I can imagine game wont be as fun as before after reaching 25 in all classes.

 

[JRMFTW]

I'm slowly grinding the levels of all my perks fairly equally and haven't got any to 25 yet. I've had an absolute blast playing this game without thinking "Gee, I really need the next bonus to start having fun"

I think lots of people are way too pre-occupied with winning and getting there via the path of least resistance, instead of just having fun and trying to get a little better with what perk/loadout you enjoy each time you play.

The only little issue that makes me understand why getting higher levels and bonuses ASAP is so important to some, is this what now seems completely random zed teleport function.
When you a forced to kite in this game, they seem to instantly spawn right behind you when you turn your back to shoot the the few zeds that are chasing you.
If you aren't a very high level with good bonuses, you're simply not going to survive.
It's strange, because I thought they fixed it, and i've often had to wait a minute or 2 for that last zed to teleport close to us to finish the round, but when you are getting overrun and break away down an empty hallway, as soon as you turn your back to shoot, you get instantly surrounded.

 

[Quadruplesword]

I'm slowly grinding the levels of all my perks fairly equally and haven't got any to 25 yet. I've had an absolute blast playing this game without thinking "Gee, I really need the next bonus to start having fun"

I think lots of people are way too pre-occupied with winning and getting there via the path of least resistance, instead of just having fun and trying to get a little better with what perk/loadout you enjoy each time you play.

The only little issue that makes me understand why getting higher levels and bonuses ASAP is so important to some, is this what now seems completely random zed teleport function.
When you a forced to kite in this game, they seem to instantly spawn right behind you when you turn your back to shoot the the few zeds that are chasing you.
If you aren't a very high level with good bonuses, you're simply not going to survive.
It's strange, because I thought they fixed it, and i've often had to wait a minute or 2 for that last zed to teleport close to us to finish the round, but when you are getting overrun and break away down an empty hallway, as soon as you turn your back to shoot, you get instantly surrounded.

It's a lot better than it was a few months back, where just taking your eyes off of a zed made them teleport behind you. It does still feel like kiting is a bit of a lottery, though, because you have to hope a massive crowd doesn't spawn and sandwich you. Hopefully that can be tweaked.

 

[HeatSurge]

Feel like it's a lot less about leveling itself but some perks being an absolute pain to get them up.

I disagree almost completely. Yes, some perks are a lot more "OP" than other perks (extra grenade or 10% dmg vs game-changing things like nuke or anti-siren), but for me leveling every perk was about the same experience as far as difficulty/time.

If there is any perceived difficulty it's because some perks need to be played differently, e.g. you can't play demo or support or berserk the same way you play commando. It's different timing/positioning/target choice. Gunslinger is very similar, almost the same as Commando, and Medic is also close since those are classic "bullet hitscan" classes which most FPS people are used to... but it felt just as "difficult" to level commando as it did demo, for me anyway.

Yes, it's probably easier to play level 10 gunslinger or commando on HOE than it is demo, so I agree with that, but I kick people below 25 on HOE just on principle. If you haven't spent the time, or are clearly perklevel trash (it's easy to tell), there's no place for you on a difficulty which requires such high efficiency and speed (I'm not talking about ezjoke maps or exploity strats like cornersit).

 

[mokov]

the answer is simple: lvling its educational and demand more playing hours

 

[Rocker Fox]

I disagree almost completely. Yes, some perks are a lot more "OP" than other perks (extra grenade or 10% dmg vs game-changing things like nuke or anti-siren), but for me leveling every perk was about the same experience as far as difficulty/time.

If there is any perceived difficulty it's because some perks need to be played differently, e.g. you can't play demo or support or berserk the same way you play commando. It's different timing/positioning/target choice. Gunslinger is very similar, almost the same as Commando, and Medic is also close since those are classic "bullet hitscan" classes which most FPS people are used to... but it felt just as "difficult" to level commando as it did demo, for me anyway.

Yes, it's probably easier to play level 10 gunslinger or commando on HOE than it is demo, so I agree with that, but I kick people below 25 on HOE just on principle. If you haven't spent the time, or are clearly perklevel trash (it's easy to tell), there's no place for you on a difficulty which requires such high efficiency and speed (I'm not talking about ezjoke maps or exploity strats like cornersit).

Issue is that it's almost provable that it's the opposite of what you say based entirely off of the secondary XP bonuses.

Break it down for a second, what does commando have for it's secondary? Stalkers. They are very plentiful and are barely a problem to go after for that perk.

Gunslinger, headshots. Any good gunslinger should be going to headshots to make their ammo go further and it's on every kill.

Look at medic and healing now, you get an xp bonus for amount healed but really to have it kick in you need to have someone lose a very large chunk of hp.

Zerker, kill enemies within 5m of teammates. Good luck with that.

Firebug, kill crawlers with firebug weapons. Wow, crawlers are sooo rare, he must have just as hard of a time leveling when compared to other perks. It's not like they have a ton of them show up on every wave or something.

Demo, kill fleshpounds. Ha, good luck, landing the killing blow on a FP is like, again, spotting a unicorn in your match. Keep in mind it's the killing blow, not contributing to it's death. Yes on normal say you get 10 xp perk round but you maybe get 2 or 3 a round.

Support, weld doors. Ha, no one does that, no one stays near doors, welding doors is pretty much putting up a barrier when you need to run the hell away.

It is far more than the whether a perk is hitscan or not, it's also based off the secondary xp bonuses for some perks being crap. On top of that a perk that has far more ammo will have a far better xp earn vs someone like demo who has to hold their shots.

It doesn't take a lot of looking at to see that there is infact not only a disparity between perk xp earning but also that there is a pretty big one.

 

[Bindles]

those barely give much extra exp if you look after the round it barely seems relevant.