why even have levelling?

[moleculo]

If I had to guess, I would say perk leveling is in the game because it is a distinguishing feature of the killing floor games.

I'd wager most games have some kind of leveling system nowadays but fair enough

It's like hacking a game to give you end-game content right at the start. What do you do then?

Enjoy that content?

You've already got the best equipment, so there's really no reason to grind anymore, is there? Sure, you might want to fool around with said equipment, but after a while, it'll just grow old.

I've never dropped a game because because of hitting max level. Why would it grow old? If you enjoyed the actual gameplay in the first place you should have no problem continuing playing. I was max level in KF1 for hundreds of hours for example

Sure leveling probably keeps people playing longer total because they want to test "the best content" and aren't given it unless they first play a long time with limited content, but isn't that kind of artificial?


EDIT: Just to clarify, I understand why people like leveling, it can feel rewarding. But there are others who don't feel the same way. So you shouldn't be too absolute about these things. I used to enjoy leveling too but I guess it got old in my case.

 

[Escadin]

The level system is not very sophistiaced and doesn't really have any impact on a match. They could have gone for a moba approach where you unlock / level your abilities during the wave and have to start over every wave if they wanted leveling to be an integral part of a round of KF2.

However, what it does is
a) Give an otherwise very basic game at least a sense of depth (it's just a flat wave shooter behind that HD weapon porn). I don't know how far they want to go with this though. Current balance makes it immediatly fall flat again but they might intend to change that some day.

b) Changes up the game a bit so the first 20 hours with a new perk don't play exactly as the following 20 hours. It's your personal preference whether to call that first period a waste of time.
I don't as long as I'm not stuck on hard with people who seemingly play with their hands tied to their chest.

 

[TheTCREngineer]

A good old cheat menu can be implemented.

 

[moleculo]

The level system is not very sophistiaced and doesn't really have any impact on a match. They could have gone for a moba approach where you unlock / level your abilities during the wave and have to start over every wave if they wanted leveling to be an integral part of a round of KF2.

Well, at least we have the trader. That's pretty similar.

However, what it does is
a) Give an otherwise very basic game at least a sense of depth (it's just a flat wave shooter behind that HD weapon porn). I don't know how far they want to go with this though. Current balance makes it immediatly fall flat again but they might intend to change that some day.

I'd say that's is part of the skill system in general and less about leveling

 

[Escadin]

Well, at least we have the trader. That's pretty similar.

The trader is very linear though. Given some decent load-out AND skill choice variety it would be possible to go for "real" builds tailored to fit your playstyle and goal within that given team / match / difficulty. The additional depth would then not only lie in choosing the right build but also working towards it's completion in every respect (both weapon load-out and skill set).

Perhaps it feels like needless grind / incomplete gameplay until level 25 to some because they try to play it that way regardless.

I'd say that's is part of the skill system in general and less about leveling

Well they are tied but I see what you mean.

 

[Shining Wolf]

If all perks start out at max level, why even have different difficulty levels then?

To have different levels of difficulty for different players...

 

[moleculo]

The trader is very linear though. Given some decent load-out AND skill choice variety it would be possible to go for "real" builds tailored to fit your playstyle and goal within that given team / match / difficulty. The additional depth would then not only lie in choosing the right build but also working towards it's completion in every respect (both weapon load-out and skill set).

Yeah I agree that this would be nice. For now I'm waiting for them to add more weapons, then probably the weapon choices get more interesting. But I'd love to some mid-game skills too.

 

[moleculo]

To have different levels of difficulty for different players...

What, I thought difficulty levels are there to offset boosts you get from leveling

 

[Greenbacks]

I don't think levels should be done away with completely, here's my reasons:
1. Leveling up is rewarding and gives players incentive to keep playing
2. Those who reached 25 can feel good about having gotten there
3. Seeing that level up feels good
4. It's a strong indicator of whether someone is new to the game or not
5. It gives players time to "get good" before trying the harder difficulties

KF2 is a whole new game of itself, with many differences. I have a friend who, while decent at KF1, was terrible at KF2. But I do sympathize with OP's situation. Maybe KF1 veterans who maxed perks in KF1 could have those perks maxed in KF2 (as a choice).

 

[ahcos]

Well it just takes too long to get to lvl25, honestly. Plus, i don't like the way the leveling system works overall, i'd really prefer if you'd get a flat XP for every round you survive instead of what they have currently, more XP on higher difficulties. That'd give a better incentive to work as a team and not just run around and steal kills from each other. You could also play the class you want to play with whatever loadout you prefer. It might be stupid to play with double Deagle and Flamethrower as a Berserker, but if you kill stuff who gives a damn?

The current system does suck, but i do like leveling in general. It's something to look forward to and also to make sure someone has put some hours into the game and has a general idea on how to play the game, which is kinda important for higher difficulties.

 

[silverlighted]

At this point you sound and act like a wretched brat. "I want this and that but its just too much work. Give it to me now"

I do too have a life. Bringing that into this 'discussion' is just ignorant.

Good day

This.

Seriously. This thread is full of whine.
Besides, for the record, I'm pretty low leveled across the board. But guess what game is still fun. As fun as it was as when I was level 0. Its a big plus over KF1 that there aren't discounts tied to level...

 

[LiquidArrow]

A game needs progression. A part of killing floors progression is the leveling system and the own players skill as they play the game.

As you play with a perk and learn the game you get a sense of progression as you unlock skills and abilities which open up higher difficulties with that perk.

So for each perk you have a good amount of progression to go through and eventually be able to play HOE with each perk as you level up. You also learn a perks strength and weaknesses as you level up and your skill increases as you play.

If this was all just to be given to us the feeling of accomplishment would be absent and the game would feel hollow.

 

[UltraJake]

Having levels is an incentive to keep those who are unable to stay interesting without awards and flashing lights playing. The fact is that leveling harms the gameplay. As soon as you start figuring out exact details like shots to kill each zed with each weapon, suddenly you level up and all those numbers are now different. This is going to happen 25 times, ignoring the balance patches which also force you to dump previously acquired knowledge.

Similarly, having levels means that the difficulty isn't balanced solely with skill in mind. They have to keep in mind potential players' levels too. Normal as a level 0 is normal. Normal as a level 25 is Easy. It's a slider that simply serves to make balance harder to pinpoint. If a level 25 player wanted to hop into normal for a slower-paced gallop for a while, he's going to be so ridiculously out of place, even if he isn't that good, that he'll also be ruining it for everyone like level 0's do in HoE. What's a level 25 to do? Not fire his gun?

Games don't need incentive to keep playing. You know what the incentive is? Fun. It's a trend that has only really started this past decade. Everyone got along fine without it. Another argument is that it forces people to improve before jumping in to harder difficulties and ruining it for everyone else. Well guess what? People still regularly jump into harder difficulties even with levels. That's no argument. It fixes nothing. All it does is keep good players grinding for longer before they can play at the same level as someone who's weapons magically do more damage or who has more health and move speed. Levels feel like a crutch rather than just a cosmetic indication of play time like they should be. Levels shouldn't exist, and certainly not as they currently do. Maybe when all the perks are in and Tripwire starts doing those balance passes they should keep this in mind.

 

[Munchiesaurus Rex]

YUSSS

Start each game with lvl 0

Level up during the game

Chose your skills during trader time

Have HOE give less XP so you lvl up slower

Have Normal give a lot so you reach lvl 25 on wave 3 or something

BUT

Unfortunately the acheavements are out and the game is based arround that grinding. TBH I have all my perks to lvl 20 - 21 and only Berzerker and Medic to lvl 25 because those perks are the only ones needed for HoE for now and I don't really feel like grinding more. I haven't been in that perk leveling map but I am considering it since I don't wan't to spend my time dieing on Suicidal anymore. And I leveled up all my perk playing with my friends during free weekends and now I don't have anymore perks left for other noob players to play with them and being lvl 25 on Normal only takes all the kills from the othres or die of boredom.

All this LVL BS is onlty separating players like in my case I can't play with my friends that just started because they are lvl 0 and Im lvl 25 and it's eighter I die of boredom untill they lvl up or they come and die and again only wait on HoE to lvl up somewhat faster.

All this leveling is really, really stupid ...

 

[Mätibaggings]

Boost or grind map/cheat engine.

 

[infntnub]

The OP's idea is actually an A+ suggestion.

Your level is meaningless in this game.

If people are just going to be grinding away in rooms where zeds are in boxes anyway, why not just have the characters fully playable from day 1 without making players unlock skills?

I get the response of "it adds replay ability" - but does it really? Like I said, a lot of players don't seem to be leveling legitly anyway. This would at least eliminate all those servers and make people actually play the game as intended. Who knows - maybe they'll even learn a thing or two in the process.

4. It's a strong indicator of whether someone is new to the game or not

Simply untrue.

In regards to making players level in order to play certain difficulties, again, this is meaningless in the current state. The amount of level 25s who have no clue what they are doing likely equals (or outnumbers) the amount who have mastered the strategies for their perk.

I actually liked the level structure of KF1, even w/o specific abilities being unlocked. You worked your butt at it and were rewarded with starting weapons and added power as you went; it made sense to me. Between there honestly being way too much levels - which I understand why this was done, in hopes to reward players with small bumps in improved abilities as they go, but this isn't how it is being executed by the player base.

If this was all just to be given to us the feeling of accomplishment would be absent and the game would feel hollow.

It already feels hollow..

Besides, for the record, I'm pretty low leveled across the board. But guess what game is still fun. As fun as it was as when I was level 0. Its a big plus over KF1 that there aren't discounts tied to level...

I agree with this - I find KF2 much more fun as lvl 0 than I did in KF1. Probably something related to the starting weapons and what not. But yeah, no argument there at all.

 

[Cinderblocks]

As we see in this thread many people would be clueless what to do in a game witbout another level to grind to. The game isn't even the point of gaming, the game isgetting 100% achievement and as soon as you do you have to get grinding on another game.

Tragically thats where the money is for TWI too. Not hard to imagine expansions that increase level caps.

 

[HeatSurge]

It's more fun this way, and you get to progressively learn to use new mechanics which keeps the game fresher for a longer time.

It's not really logically "necessary" but think of FPS shooters especially in the 90s, but even recently (e.g. borderlands).

Think of how much fun doom 2 or quake or borderlands are the way they are, and think of how much fun they would be if you started with full weapons of the highest tier or fully leveled with gold weapons in borderlands, and just played levels compared to the last level over and over. It's just a game design mechanic to make you feel progress/learning/improvement - and IMO it works pretty well.

I mean, you could play doom2 by typing IDDQD/IDKFA at the beginning of every level, and some people may enjoy that, but I don't find that entertaining beyond maybe 1-2 minutes.

 

[Quadruplesword]

I just fail to see why it's so awful that there is leveling up in the first place. You make it sound like it makes the game not fun. If you're looking at the path to level 25 like it's homework, then you're looking at it the wrong way. Just play in normal and hard servers and have a good time, and when you're strong enough, hop on suicidal and HoE servers.

 

[vealck]

Why there is levelling in KF2?

Well, it gives people a false sense of accomplishment. That's why it's pretty much in every game nowadays, along with so called 'achievements'. We usually lack this kind of positive feedback in everyday life, hence it just feels good to see that xp bar filling. As superficial as it is, it's still some sort of clear, physical indication of our growing 'skills' in something. Combine that with another positive stimuli, like unlocking new abilities and stuff, and you have the recipe that partly made CoD series so popular.

It would be foolish of TWI not to incorporate such trivial to implement, yet extremely effective mechanism that makes game more engaging and rewarding.