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Who fought at Stalingrad?

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#21
I heard once a story about what some Romanian artillery unit did near Stalingrad. I cannot guarantee is it true or not since I do not even actually remember where I heard it in the first place, but presuming it 'is' true it is kinda funny.

A Soviet tank column was approaching, and the unit commander spotted them. However, they were too close and therefore they could not return fire in any 'proper' means (since the arty was directed to some other direction also), while the tank column didn't notice it yet.

Then the unit commander\someone else picked up a hammer, sneaked nearby the tank column, jumped to the hull of one tank and began hammering the front hull with it. Since no-one didn't notice this guy, they thought they were under rapid AT fire and they decided to retreat, yet no-one still didn't notice this guy who was hammering the hull.


Sounds crazy and one reason why I always doubt is it true or not, but it is kinda funny :p
 
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#26
Oldih said:
I heard once a story about what some Romanian artillery unit did near Stalingrad. I cannot guarantee is it true or not since I do not even actually remember where I heard it in the first place, but presuming it 'is' true it is kinda funny.

A Soviet tank column was approaching, and the unit commander spotted them. However, they were too close and therefore they could not return fire in any 'proper' means (since the arty was directed to some other direction also), while the tank column didn't notice it yet.

Then the unit commander\someone else picked up a hammer, sneaked nearby the tank column, jumped to the hull of one tank and began hammering the front hull with it. Since no-one didn't notice this guy, they thought they were under rapid AT fire and they decided to retreat, yet no-one still didn't notice this guy who was hammering the hull.


Sounds crazy and one reason why I always doubt is it true or not, but it is kinda funny :p
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Wouldnt the other tanks see him and just mg him off?
 
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#28
i think that at that time the germans didn't really trusted the foreign volunteers that much yet. they were under-equipped, regular german units made fun of them etc... and they were not used for frontline combat.

untill some units proved themselves to be better and more tenacious then the german units. like the wallonien division. that made the germans change the way they regard foreign units, and use them for the hardest tasks, and with succes.
 
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#30
SchutzeSepp said:
i think that at that time the germans didn't really trusted the foreign volunteers that much yet. they were under-equipped, regular german units made fun of them etc... and they were not used for frontline combat.

untill some units proved themselves to be better and more tenacious then the german units. like the wallonien division. that made the germans change the way they regard foreign units, and use them for the hardest tasks, and with succes.
Click to expand...

Its pretty interesting to note that the remains of the SS divisions who took foreign volunteers, danes, norwegians, dutch, fins (the fins werent really volunteers, technically speaking) etc was some of the most diehard fighters to the very end of the war. Long after their divisions themselves had seized to exist as combat formations, remnant units still fought in the last days in and around the Reichstag. Men with no hope and no future, knowing the war was lost they choose death in the ruins of Berlin rather than to surrender. I have on occasions wondered how truely believing and committed to the nazi cause they actually where.

From what I've read from the survivors of these units (mostly folks that got injured etc earlier in the war) they where a mix of truly believing nazis, adventurers, anti-commies and...kids. Many sad fates among those young men. Worst off was perhaps those that ended up as guards in various KZ camps, loosing all their humanity and empathy in the process. Man they must have been truly wrecked.

/DFN
 
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#31
Oldih said:
I heard once a story about what some Romanian artillery unit did near Stalingrad. I cannot guarantee is it true or not since I do not even actually remember where I heard it in the first place, but presuming it 'is' true it is kinda funny.

A Soviet tank column was approaching, and the unit commander spotted them. However, they were too close and therefore they could not return fire in any 'proper' means (since the arty was directed to some other direction also), while the tank column didn't notice it yet.

Then the unit commander\someone else picked up a hammer, sneaked nearby the tank column, jumped to the hull of one tank and began hammering the front hull with it. Since no-one didn't notice this guy, they thought they were under rapid AT fire and they decided to retreat, yet no-one still didn't notice this guy who was hammering the hull.


Sounds crazy and one reason why I always doubt is it true or not, but it is kinda funny :p
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I read this too
 
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#32
DFN said:
Its pretty interesting to note that the remains of the SS divisions who took foreign volunteers, danes, norwegians, dutch, fins (the fins werent really volunteers, technically speaking) etc was some of the most diehard fighters to the very end of the war. Long after their divisions themselves had seized to exist as combat formations, remnant units still fought in the last days in and around the Reichstag. Men with no hope and no future, knowing the war was lost they choose death in the ruins of Berlin rather than to surrender. I have on occasions wondered how truely believing and committed to the nazi cause they actually where.

From what I've read from the survivors of these units (mostly folks that got injured etc earlier in the war) they where a mix of truly believing nazis, adventurers, anti-commies and...kids. Many sad fates among those young men. Worst off was perhaps those that ended up as guards in various KZ camps, loosing all their humanity and empathy in the process. Man they must have been truly wrecked.

/DFN
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No sympathy here for camp guards.

As for the foreign elements that were diehard fighters until the very end, many of them were real diehard Nazis who truly believed in the ideology (again no sympathy here). All of them were facing prison or execution at the end of the war, so I guess they figured they might as well go down fighting. A great many of them actually committed suicide, as did many German SS men right at the end.
 
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#33
thedonster said:
No sympathy here for camp guards.

As for the foreign elements that were diehard fighters until the very end, many of them were real diehard Nazis who truly believed in the ideology (again no sympathy here)...
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i doubt that diehard nazis would join the ss volunteer divisions.
non-german pro nazis were mainly opportunists and cowards, who would do anything to avoid going to the war.
instead they would be found in their own country, collaborating with the enemy. and taking advantage of it.

those who joined the foreign ss, were brave or either naive men. who were told that they would help their own country by fighting the communists.
the germans never used anti-semetic slogans or posters to recruit foreign volunteers.

so saying that the foreign ss was mainly composed of diehard nazis, is doing to much honour to the nazis.
 
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#34
SchutzeSepp said:
i doubt that diehard nazis would join the ss volunteer divisions.
non-german pro nazis were mainly opportunists and cowards, who would do anything to avoid going to the war.
instead they would be found in their own country, collaborating with the enemy. and taking advantage of it.

those who joined the foreign ss, were brave or either naive men. who were told that they would help their own country by fighting the communists.
the germans never used anti-semetic slogans or posters to recruit foreign volunteers.

so saying that the foreign ss was mainly composed of diehard nazis, is doing to much honour to the nazis.
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Huh? You seem to be a little confused.
All Waffen SS divisions were volunteer units. So yes, diehard Nazis would (and often did) join SS volunteer divisions. Suggesting they didn't is just weird.
Non German pro-Nazis were not all cowards. Opportunists maybe, but that's another question. Many fought hard and well, in various German formations. The SS "Charlemagne" division was comprised of volunteer French collaborators and was among the last fighting Axis units during the fall of Berlin. If they wanted to avoid fighting they could have just stayed in occupied France.
At the beginning of the war it was very hard to get admitted to the SS but by the war's end the Waffen SS (meaning the military, not the police arm of the SS) took just about anyone who could hold a rifle.
I didn't say the "foreign SS was mainly composed of diehard Nazis". Go back and read my post again.
And I do not honour Nazis, thank you very much.
 
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#35
i researched alot about the walloon foreign ss division, they joined the foreign wehrmacht units first. and when they saw how well organised disciplined and equipped the 5th ss was, when they were fighting together. they decided to incorporate the ss. it had nothing to do with nazi ideology. sure some had sympathy, but it was mostly opportunism. and the exactions of fighting frontline ss tropps were rararely motivated by by nazi ideology.
so i believe there were few real die hard nazis in the ss, mostly were indoctrined. so from that point of view, everybody is a potential nazi. and doesn't deserve your sympathy...
so yes i think that linking the battle exploits of the ss with nazi ideology is doing to much honour to the nazis

they didn't fight to the bitter end because of ideology, but because they knew they would probably be killed or trialed if taken alive. anybody would do so. nazi or not
 
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#36
the germans never used anti-semetic slogans or posters to recruit foreign volunteers.
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Nazis are people who are being nationalistic towards other races, not necessary jews. If their propaganda included that recruits will be fighting slavs, that would be also nationalistic. And this happened in Baltic countries. Plus, lots of people from these nations were hardcore anti-semits, who started killing jews before German soldiers occupied their cities.
I can say that Latvian and Estonian volunteers were mostly nazis.
 
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#37
Bolt said:
If their propaganda included that recruits will be fighting slavs, that would be also nationalistic...
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i dont know if they ever used the term"slavs" to recruit foreign soldiers, they used the terms "communists" and "bolsjevic" to draw in people. that has nothing to do with race or religion. people were really scared of communism, and thats why so many joined.
 
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#38
I saw a photo of a transparent (or a poster, if you will) in the beginning of a war somewhere in the Baltics which said that, literally, slavic race must be completely destroyed. I'll try to search for source, but no guarantee, that was a long time ago.

It's not a photo that I was talking about, but still. The top ones are posters for Ukranians, very often the word bolshevik is used together with word "zhyd", which means a bad nick for jew. Still searching for Baltic posters.
http://ostbataillon.fromru.com/propaganda.htm
 
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#39
SchutzeSepp said:
so i believe there were few real die hard nazis in the ss, mostly were indoctrined. so from that point of view, everybody is a potential nazi. and doesn't deserve your sympathy...
so yes i think that linking the battle exploits of the ss with nazi ideology is doing to much honour to the nazis

they didn't fight to the bitter end because of ideology, but because they knew they would probably be killed or trialed if taken alive. anybody would do so. nazi or not
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If you read my original post, you'll find that I said "many" of them were diehard Nazis, not "most" or "all". I also said "All of them were facing prison or execution..." so that's why they fought so hard at the end.

So you've just agreed with what I said in the first place.

Furthermore, stating that the Walloon division had "nothing to do with Nazi ideology" ignores the fact that they were fighting voluntarily for the Germans. What's the reason they joined then? Because they liked the uniforms?
 
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