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"What we are up to" - Feb 3rd edition

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#202
Amerikaner said:
The changes seem right on target. The only things I would suggest are to add body collision and keep the bleeding system but lengthen the amount of time you have to bandage and increase the negative effects before you bandage. That would allow getting shot but not dying to affect the outcome of a battle in an interesting way where you're fighting with a detriment and then have to find a safe spot to recouperate instead of the current system of, oh got shot, hit the bandage key immedately, move on. Actually, I would think this would be better in all modes, not just "RO Classic".
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Jup it would be great if shot in the foot you would stay crippled till you bandage, with bandaging taking something like 10 seconds.
 
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#203
Yoshiro said:
Proud god,

The weapon levels refer to the functionality/attachements on the weapons themselves and not to the stat bonuses.

The peripheral indicators and many other systems such as the bleeding system are ones we are looking at for refinements in the other modes. We'll see if there is enough call from the community for the updated features in classic or not. I'll probably be talking more about some of our refinements in the coming weeks along with the new map.
Click to expand...

Hurrah for refinements!
 
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#204
A few suggestions from a very excited RO fan

-Your weapon has been shot out of your hand! -bring this back
-right click for hip fire MG
-custom loadouts? to an extent say...whether we want the hoodsight or not on the K98 OR ppsh DRUM mag or banana clip...let us choose
-attach/detach bayo OR just let us choose to have one or not if you dont want to make the animation
-get rid of the zoom feature, but keep the "controlled breathing"
-bring back RO1 sprinting, body collision. This may fix all your netcoding/leeding your target issues -basically get rid of the COD sprint
-bandage system - make it so torso shot is NOT BANDAGABLE, a bullet in the gut and your days are over fritz!
-possibly remove mkb42, its hard to request content removal but for realism purposes, meh
-Bigger maps that allow flanking is what truly will bring this game back!

anything i miss?
 
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#206
hockeywarrior said:
You do realize that these changes would be in a separate mode right? So you can keep on playing RO2 as it is now if you want, even after RO Classic is released? In other words, you're making it sound like they're changing the game for everyone when they're not.
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Strictly true, but I am suspicious about the validity of this point when as it is now we barely have choice of playable servers. There's one, maybe two, populated servers I can get a decent ping on any time I play (thank goodness for that much...it lets me play at least). In a thriving game where there is a smorgasbord of populated server choice the point might carry some weight. But, say most of the populated servers one can get a decent ping on begin to run a new game mode that one ultimately decides is unsatisfying. One's only choice will be to play the new game mode most of the time. If that were to happen, that would fundamentally change the game for a lot of people, and it wouldn't be their choice.

Having said, that, I'm interested in what the game will play like in Classic mode. I'm pretty sure I dislike some of the changes, but I have an open mind to try it.

What I'm looking forward to is the refinements to existing systems Yoshi referred to.
 
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#209
Yoshiro said:
"RO Classic"​

This mode will be an additional mode complimenting Normal and Realism. We have chosen to to this route as there are players who enjoy Realism as it currently exists.

The mode, while featuring no weapon or player upgrades or perks, will be ranked. So players who do enjoy receiving those upgrades and perks can play in this mode and earn them for the other modes. We feel this will allow players to experiment with the mode who might not normally play it, and feel rewarded for their play. - A good decision.

Loadouts and weapon availability will be more similar to what could be found in RO 1. Towards that end, the Squad Leader will be loosing his access to sub-machine guns and semi-automatic rifles to bring the ratio in line. - Access to those weapons are ok to me as long as a standard rifle is available as a choice. The weapons selectable by each class will also more closely reflect that of RO 1 with PPSH w/ drum mag being the standard loadout and many of the other weapons not having access to their upgrades or limited to a specific upgrade (such as weapons with bayonets for that functionality)

This is the list we are currently looking at:
  • PPSH w/drum mag and select fire (Level 3)
  • Kar98 w/bayonet (Level 2)
  • Kar98 Sniper w/4X scope (Level 1)
  • Mosin Nagant Sniper w/3.5X scope (Level 1)
  • G41 Sniper w/4X Scope (Level 2)
  • SVT40 Sniper w/3.5X scope (Level 1)
  • MP40 with single 32 round mag (Level 1)
  • MKB42 with bayonet (no scope) (Level 1)
  • P38 Pistol (Level 1)
  • C96 w/10 round mag (Level 1)
  • MG34 w/50 round drum (Level 1)
  • MG34 Tripod (no ranking anyway)
  • PTRS (Level 1, no ranking on this anyway)
  • Pzb 784 (r) (Level 1, no ranking on this anyway)
  • MN 9130 w/bayonet (Level 2)
  • G41 (W) w/bayonet (Level 2)
  • SVT40 w/bayo (Level 3)
  • AVT40 w/bayo (Level 2)
  • TT33 (Level 1)
  • M1895 (Level 1)
  • DP28 (Level 1)
  • Maxim 1910 (no ranking anyway)
  • All other weapons and equipment as normally given (binocs, satchels, smoke nades, etc)
- Overall a good decision.

We are also looking at the inclusion of the Elite Assault role back into the game in case the creator of a map wants the MKB/AVT to be available. - Good decision, leave it up to the mapper. Always wondered why this class disappeared from the beta.

But this wouldn't be a "RO Classic" mode with just weapon changes. We also have an initial list of functionality changes and removal as well. This list is designed to emulate the "feel" of RO 1 by making distance engagements a bit more of an uncertainty. You can find that list below. This is once again a look at the initial changes we are going to make for the mode and take feedback on in beta:

  • Removal of peripheral action indicators - Personally I had no problem with the indicators as long as you couldn't detect players that way thru smoke.
  • Removal of spawn on Squad Leader - The spawn on Squad Leader was usually ok except in the instances you spawned too far forward and in the open or behind enemy lines. If that couldn't be fixed, then removal was perhaps a better alternative.
  • Removal of the bleeding system (Player will always take 100% of the damage to an area on the shot and not half then bleed the rest out like in the current system) - Is this the bandaging system? I liked the idea of the bandaging/bleeding myself, but I personally believe the timing was way off and led to hokey behavior.
  • Players will have a movement speed penalty after being shot in the feet - This is good. I'm guessing also legs on some occasions?
  • Stamina will have a much greater effect on weapon sway and recoil - This makes good sense as long as it doesn't go overboard with ridiculous recoil.
  • Stance will have an increased effect on weapon sway/recoil (with the default standing state having more sway then the current game modes) - Agreed for the most part. Currently it seems the more stable stances (prone, rested weapon) made little or no difference and were no better than the others which seemed too stable.
  • Removal of "controlled breathing" zoom, but retaining the functionality to help steady the weapon as well as the slight iron sight zoom - I actually thought zoom was fine, but needed its own separate key. That way I can achieve a proper focus or better FOV per my choice. Ironically I was against a zoom feature prior to the games release.
  • Stamina will recharge at a slower rate - Slightly slower would be ok.
  • No AI Tank Gunnery - Undecided.
  • No Lockdown - Agreed. If it couldn't be adjusted according to other factors or the time lengthened, then I think removal is best.

Now these changes will also be joining a host of changes and refinements we are making on the current systems as well. Several of these are still having their designs tweaked and updated so I will hold off on going further on these til a later date. - Looking forward to seeing those possible changes.

Now some might wonder why some of the other oft requested features are not readily on this list, such as player momentum. The reason for this is the momentum system in RO 2 is the same system as RO 1 with a small tweak of player friction at the start and ending phase to make it feel more responsive. So before we go and start making changes to this we want to see how the other changes play out first in getting players the experience they want. - Perhaps momentum felt different in ROHOS because of the faster player movement, which I think is fine myself.

We look forward to play testing these changes with you in the coming weeks.
Click to expand...

Just adding my personal take on the details that Yoshiro gave. It is a step in the right direction, although I don't agree with every detail. In any case, whatever combination of steps are taken, as long as that RO feel is the end result, then I think I will be happy.

My thoughts are in the yellow. There are other things I would add, but since they were not brought up by Yoshiro yet, no comment here.
 
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#210
Crusher said:
I hope that when the classic mode comes out more people will play it so you don't really have to worry about it. All the people complaining about RO2 (like me) will play the mode so the playercount will increase.
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Again true, but irrelevant in a way. I'm talking about what happens to players who end up not liking the new mode but if most of the servers they've always been able to play on switch to the new mode, which is a possibility. They'll be left sort of in the dust regardless of total player numbers (and that in itself could have a counter-effect of losing some players). More players may bring more servers but if most of the new and returning players prefer the classic mode, it doesn't help people that don't like it, that's all I'm saying.

The assumption when people say a new mode won't change the experience for players is that existing servers will definitely stay the same and the choice for which servers to play on will be the same with just some new servers running the classic mode. It's not a very strong point because it disregards the possibility that maybe my one or 2 "favorite" (read: playable) servers switch to the new mode rather than stay the same. That would change my experience of the game, for better or for worse.
 
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#212
Removal of the bleeding system is not necessary, it only needs some alterations, like the amount of time it takes for you to to die, must be longer. Also, while wounded in such a case make your weapon shake, like you are actually suffering from serious pain, to avoid excessively rambo-style gameplay. And walking around with a gunshot wound will slow you down over time, so players will seek for shelter to apply the bandage.
 
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#213
MarioBava said:
Strictly true, but I am suspicious about the validity of this point when as it is now we barely have choice of playable servers. There's one, maybe two, populated servers I can get a decent ping on any time I play (thank goodness for that much...it lets me play at least). In a thriving game where there is a smorgasbord of populated server choice the point might carry some weight. But, say most of the populated servers one can get a decent ping on begin to run a new game mode that one ultimately decides is unsatisfying. One's only choice will be to play the new game mode most of the time. If that were to happen, that would fundamentally change the game for a lot of people, and it wouldn't be their choice.

Having said, that, I'm interested in what the game will play like in Classic mode. I'm pretty sure I dislike some of the changes, but I have an open mind to try it.

What I'm looking forward to is the refinements to existing systems Yoshi referred to.
Click to expand...
Well the devs are doing this as an effort to get MORE players into the game. I personally know at least 20 people that would potentially return to RO2 if it played more realistically. So you may actually see more servers to choose from. Things certainly can't get worse than they already are.
 
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#214
MarioBava said:
Again true, but irrelevant in a way. I'm talking about what happens to players who end up not liking the new mode but if most of the servers they've always been able to play on switch to the new mode, which is a possibility. They'll be left sort of in the dust regardless of total player numbers (and that in itself could have a counter-effect of losing some players). More players may bring more servers but if most of the new and returning players prefer the classic mode, it doesn't help people that don't like it, that's all I'm saying.

The assumption when people say a new mode won't change the experience for players is that existing servers will definitely stay the same and the choice for which servers to play on will be the same with just some new servers running the classic mode. It's not a very strong point because it disregards the possibility that maybe my one or 2 "favorite" (read: playable) servers switch to the new mode rather than stay the same. That would change my experience of the game, for better or for worse.
Click to expand...

Always a possibility, true. But then that probably means more players wanted to play the RO-Classic Mode then. If the server admin or the clans running the server want to switch over, you can't blame them. After all, it is their server, and they are probably going to run it in the mode that they want. Can you really hold that against them? I would hope not, the same as I can't hold it against those players that prefer to play on the servers that stay Relaxed Realism or Realism.
 
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#215
For those that like no zoom by default I have some good news I managed to bind a button that changes between zoom states. Its a tad buggy, but you can learn to use it.

type this in the console:
setbind p "set ROGame.ROPlayerController IronSightZoomScaleRifle 1 | onrelease set ROGame.ROPlayerController IronsightZoomScaleRifle 0"

If you hold down p before going into ironsight you will then go into ironsight zoomed
If you do nto hold down p before going into ironsight you will go into ironsight without zoom.

However if you press or release p while in ironsight only your gun will change fov. Its buggy but at least its better than nothing.

works in single player going to test in multi.

Update: Blah the console command is blocked for multiplayer...

------------

I really hope that TWI allows for a seperate button to zoom, rather than force you to zoom in when going into iron sight. And with that preferably a button that works, when not in ironsights and even when running.
 
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#217
great list, many changes that are long overdue. Good to see RO is still the players game and player feedback gets noted and acted upon. Only other thing I would suggest adding to the list is a quick look up feature for sniper aiming. At the moment using the scope limits peripheral vision too much. When using a standard bolt action I can leave the aim up and still have reasonbly good FOV. With sniper rifles however, i have to remain unaimed and then aim in on each person. It means I miss many targets which I should have otherwise got. I don't want to quickscope as such just make the sniper as usuable as standard bolts. At the moment unless the range is over 150m its offers little advantage for this reason, since peripheral vision hinders gameplay more than the accuracy the marksman class brings
 
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#218
Thanks for the detailed update, Yoshiro.


If I understand Zetsumei correctly, then I'm in favor of his method for IS zoom as well.

No automatic zoom when going to iron sight.
Press an additional button to zoom.

(Zoom or no zoom while running I can live with or without. Just remember to add a delay to the raising of IS when going from a sprint to IS ;) ).

Imo, having to press an additional button to zoom would be much like having to focus (eyes and body) that much harder on a distant target to hit it. And I am in aggreement with him that, not zooming in when in close quarter combat would be a plus.
 
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#220
Zetsumei said:
For those that like no zoom by default I have some good news I managed to bind a button that changes between zoom states. Its a tad buggy, but you can learn to use it.

type this in the console:
setbind p "set ROGame.ROPlayerController IronSightZoomScaleRifle 1 | onrelease set ROGame.ROPlayerController IronsightZoomScaleRifle 0"

If you hold down p before going into ironsight you will then go into ironsight zoomed
If you do nto hold down p before going into ironsight you will go into ironsight without zoom.

However if you press or release p while in ironsight only your gun will change fov. Its buggy but at least its better than nothing.

works in single player going to test in multi.

Update: Blah the console command is blocked for multiplayer...
Click to expand...

I tried that command on the second day after release:p What you can do as an alternative is bind exlusive focus and IS to the same button.
 
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