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What the heck is the logic of going past the objective?

ZzDe0

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 24, 2010
92
7
0
I see this **** all the time so maybe someone can explain it to me. Squad leaders that sneak past the objective on the way outskirts of the map. To do what? Get a bunch of kills or a good arty mark? It'd be one thing if they were just a rifleman but why do they have to be squad leader and drag me into their stupid tactic?
 

Cwivey

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 14, 2011
2,963
118
0
In the hills! (of England)
I like holding flanks and cutting off attacks from unexpected areas. That's why I do it. I want you to be part of the fun. I'm afraid that if you don't like spawning on someone who tries different tactics you ought to change squad or chose a regular spawn point.
 

>F|R< CoMuNisTa

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 31, 2006
223
47
0
You should be thankful that you found aggressive SLs who put you directly into the fun as opposed to those mediocre ones that sit behind as mere spawn points wasting valuable automatic guns.
 

ZzDe0

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 24, 2010
92
7
0
You should be thankful that you found aggressive SLs who put you directly into the fun as opposed to those mediocre ones that sit behind as mere spawn points wasting valuable automatic guns.
But that's what you're suppose to do. The point is to get troops closer the the objective, not to play riflemen. You're doing a bigger disservice to you're team by wasting an effective spawn point than by wasting an automatic weapon.
 
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Laggy

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 23, 2013
51
0
0
The logic is that it is useful to have a squad attack from an unexpected direction (namely behind them) as opposed to doing a direct head on assault.

I don't understand why you seem so flustered about this, the SL's playstyle is the SL's playstyle. What you prefer doesnot coincide with your current SL so either change squads or buckle up?
 

Padre14

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 14, 2014
1
0
0
But that's what you're suppose to do. The point is to get troops closer the the objective, not to play riflemen. You're doing a bigger disservice to you're team by wasting an effective spawn point than by wasting an automatic weapon.
I agree with this ^. Squad leaders are supposed to act as spawn points and subordinate leaders on behalf of the platoon leader, they are not door kickers, at least that's not their primary jobs.

Far too often I see one of 2 types of SL's:
-SL's who sneak off into the edges of the map that are far away from the action, which means that the whole squad has to run to the objective (which defeats the purpose of the mobile SL spawn point)

or

-SL's who are always pushing into enemy kill zones or arty barrages which either gets the SL killed or gets the respawned squad members killed or both all of the above.

Squad leaders are supposed to be leaders. They should organize and direct their squad, instead of playing like Rambo's.
 

|Brothers|-York

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 15, 2011
103
0
0
Its lone wolves going for kills. The joke is on them that they get less points for it.


It`s only a legit tactic if ur sure of taking the cap and are pushing the next.
 

Großadmial Thrawn

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 1, 2014
221
0
0
It`s only a legit tactic if ur sure of taking the cap and are pushing the next.
i tend to disagree with this... if the SL is behind the cap he and his squad can fall into the defenders backs or keep reinforcements off
 

The_Wanderer

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 28, 2012
74
0
0
Finland
Personally I usually try to flank the enemy so that I can get arty mark behind the enemy, get smokes right on top of the enemy, not in front of them.. and then storm the capzone from unexpected angle. After that I try to stay alive on cap so that ppl can spawn right in to the capzone. Squad leaders also cap more faster than others.

I can't understand why so many ppl just run down the middle to a certain death and many times it's just useless to spawn friendlies right in front of the enemy on middle of the map 'cos their life expentancy is just too short and you end up just wasting reinforcements.

Flanking rules, it's also a legit tactic IRL..

Ps: Sometimes situation forces to do something totally different especially with those smokes but this is very common strategy for me.
 
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Jank

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 6, 2007
1,188
8
0
Redwood City, CA, USA
I do this a lot too. The reasons to do it far outweigh any disadvantages. It allows me to spawn my squad in an unexpected and advantageous position for attack (the flank by definition is the place to be when attacking an enemy line). This does not mean always close to the action. The direction you approach the objective from is just as important as how far you must travel. It allows me to put down a proper arty mark behind the objective. It allows my men to find firing positions on the flank to cut off enemy resupply (encirclement wins battles).


And what is the drawback of a flanking Squad Leader?
 

Teufel Hund

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 31, 2006
261
21
0
Squad Leaders have four jobs:

  1. Marking arty
  2. Providing concealment (ie smoke)
  3. Capturing objectives (they count for more than other classes)
  4. Acting as a spawn point.

The priority should be in that order, acting as spawn point is their lowest priority (although it can coincide with capturing objectives).

Flanking objectives, and going past them can be a valuable tactic (but not if every SL tries to do it). Having a squad with a MG behind the objective to cut off reinforcements can be very advantageous to the platoon. It's also often the best way to get good arty marks.

Then there's some maps where it's a good tactic to have a squad already setup to take the next objective as soon as the prior one is captured. This prevents the defenders from having the chance to prepare for the next assault.
 

Jank

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 6, 2007
1,188
8
0
Redwood City, CA, USA
I don't see how you can say that an SL's lowest priority is spawn position for his squad. I'm guessing that's what you would like it to be, but I think for winning matches the way the game is designed right now, his spawnpoint role is the most important job on the entire team. I'd rank them 4,1,2,3. Having a spawn up close to the action is probably the most important factor in defending and holding a line, we all know what happens when a spawnpoint moves back (even before a cap is complete sometimes, right Kwajalein?) and its critically important for flanking a position on offense too, and establishing a base of fire from somewhere other than a few meters in front of the default spawns...


Personally I do think though, that the SL's priority changes with the number of men in his squad. My rule of thumb is a rule of five. If I have five or more men in my squad, then my top priority is to spawn them in an advantageous position. The firepower they bring to bear should have a greater effect than anything I could do by myself. If I have less than five squadmates, then my priorities are artillery marks, smoke, and capping Rambo-style, in that order.
 
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Teufel Hund

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 31, 2006
261
21
0
I don't see how you can say that an SL's lowest priority is spawn position for his squad. I'm guessing that's what you would like it to be, but I think for winning matches the way the game is designed right now, his spawnpoint role is the most important job on the entire team. I'd rank them 4,1,2,3. Having a spawn up close to the action is probably the most important factor in defending and holding a line, we all know what happens when a spawnpoint moves back (even before a cap is complete sometimes, right Kwajalein?) and its critically important for flanking a position on offense too, and establishing a base of fire from somewhere other than a few meters in front of the default spawns...


Personally I do think though, that the SL's priority changes with the number of men in his squad. My rule of thumb is a rule of five. If I have five or more men in my squad, then my top priority is to spawn them in an advantageous position. The firepower they bring to bear should have a greater effect than anything I could do by myself. If I have less than five squadmates, then my priorities are artillery marks, smoke, and capping Rambo-style, in that order.
How can you rank arty last? Well placed arty can wipe out the majority of the opposing side in a matter of seconds. Making for an easy capture of the objective. This is why I feel marking arty is the SL's primary objective, and it's worth dying to get that perfect mark.
 

Bat Guano

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 14, 2006
203
0
0
I've got to agree with Jank here, and I play SL the same way. If you've got a big squad - like squad 1 - being a spawn point needs to be your top priority most of the time. Find a good route to the objective, hunker down and stay alive. Use your smoke but don't risk your life or give up a good spawn point to get more once you've thrown it. Marking arty is a lower priority, again not worth risking your spawn point.

If I've got say 3-5 guys in my squad, I play more aggressively and put a higher priority marking arty, laying smoke and getting into the cap zone, with being a spawn point still a consideration but a lower priority.

If I'm all alone with no one in my squad (as happens sometimes at the start of a round as an SL other than SL1) I will risk my life for a perfect arty mark and/or rush forward to throw smoke, die, repeat.

In closing, I will add that in practice a squad leader can fail in all of these duties except acting as a spawn point and get away with it; but failing in that regard can get you vote kicked.
 

Jank

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 6, 2007
1,188
8
0
Redwood City, CA, USA
How can you rank arty last? Well placed arty can wipe out the majority of the opposing side in a matter of seconds. Making for an easy capture of the objective. This is why I feel marking arty is the SL's primary objective, and it's worth dying to get that perfect mark.


Perhaps I was not clear. I don't rank artillery last, in fact I rate it highly in either situation. When I said I rank them 4,1,2,3 I meant I rank your 1-4 tasks in that order, i.e. Spawnpoint, then Arty marks, then smoke, then capping.


But when I've got a fat squad spawning in a good position, which is my top priority when I spawn as leader of a big squad, I don't like to risk my neck to put down a good mark. Quite often I die putting down an artillery mark, and after all there are 3 or 4 other guys who can do that, who don't have a full squad to worry about.
 

Zakarro

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 11, 2014
664
0
0
You gotta be good to do this, go behind enemy lines and wreak havoc.
Usually you end up dead.
 

FireBall1

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 27, 2006
55
0
0
What no one mentioned is the consideration of where your squad is spawning.

If you as the squadleader are past the objective then your squad will spawn behind which puts them in or close to objective.

On the map barracks many squadleaders will get into the NCO barracks only to have their men spawn in the street between the NCO barracks and the administration building and get shot down as soon as they spawn.

if the SL would move up to the edge of the NCO barracks his men would not spawn in the street but in the building.
 

ArchoN2010

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 1, 2011
61
39
0
I think it's dependant on certain factors, for example the map, ticket situation and player skill are just some things that factor in to this 'positional' aggressiveness

It's useful on maps where the areas behind objectives can be dominated by MGs, snipers or even tanks. Maps that come to mind are Rakowice, Myshovka River (spelling? :eek: ) and to some extent Winterwald, and tend to be large maps.

It cuts off reinforcements to the capzone and just one squad can stop several waves of reinforcements before they're killed or sometimes even located.

Of course some maps do not favour these kinds of tactics (for example Apartments) and Squad Leaders are usually best positioned in or nearby capture zones regardless of map.
 

ArchoN2010

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 1, 2011
61
39
0
Edit: Sorry for double-post

Squad Leaders have four jobs:

  1. Marking arty
  2. Providing concealment (ie smoke)
  3. Capturing objectives (they count for more than other classes)
  4. Acting as a spawn point.
These are all no doubt important and I agree with #2 and #3 but I'd most definitely swap arty marking for acting as a spawn point.

Commanders can mark artillery themselves, besides the two smokes he has for concealment there really isn't any other reason for him to 'stay alive', it's perfectly fine to take risks to obtain arty markers yourself.

Currently, skilled teams can rapidly advance in to objectives almost akin to blitzkrieg attack and spawn squads of troops on them whilst the defenders are still straggling, I've seen this done before on loosely organised pub games with a bit of coordination between roles and teammates, I believe we managed to win Bridges of Druhzina in less than 20 minutes on a full 64 player server.