What are the optimal weapon loadouts for each Perk these days?

[Foxhound3857]

My main Perk is Commando, one of only two that I have fully Prestiged, and my general go-to is HM501 and either SCAR or M16/M203, but I'm steadily trying to move away from the HM501 in favor of weapons with better team synergy (the healing nades on the 501 start to look appealing if you have no Medic or your team is pretty weak otherwise).

Lately I've been doing SCAR/HM401, which seems to strike a good balance between ammo, trash killing, team assistance and being able to engage big ZEDs if needed. I sort of prefer the M16 specifically for Fleshpounds, but more and more I'm learning that if I'm the one called upon to deal with FP's as a Mando, the team is likely doing something very wrong, so I try to focus on trash specifically, and I find the SCAR/401 is best for that overall.

I don't like FAL because of the weight and the recoil. Would've much preferred the M14EBR be made cross-perk for Mando, or at least drop the FAL to 7 weight instead of 8, so the Hm501 is still an option with it (or drop the Hm501 to 7 weight, I guess).

Medic I go Hm501 (more nades for buffing zones) and Healthrower. Been experimenting with the Mine Reconstructor but it's a very strange weapon to get used to.

Support I go DBS/AA12, Bombadier (drop one inside a room and then weld the door from the other side so it prolongs that doors survival) and HM101, selling the Bombadier after Wave 10 to upgrade the DBS/AA12.

Demo I go Kaboomstick/M79 and Bombadier until final wave, then sell everything for HX25/RPG and HM101.

 

[baztheallmighty]

While this doesn't really answer your question it provides a lot of useful information.

Steam Community :: Guide :: A Beginner's Guide to CD

A "basic knowledge and how to fight" guide on a mod server harder than the official highest difficulty "Hell on Earth". KF2 Version: 1143...

steamcommunity.com

 

[Foxhound3857]

While this doesn't really answer your question it provides a lot of useful information.

Steam Community :: Guide :: A Beginner's Guide to CD

A "basic knowledge and how to fight" guide on a mod server harder than the official highest difficulty "Hell on Earth". KF2 Version: 1143...

steamcommunity.com

Ugh, if this is in regards to a Huwhyte HoE+ server, I'll take a hard pass. I played on two of those servers recently and got kicked from both of them, one for using a duplicate perk and not having another 25 to switch to (Commando and Medic are my only Hard 25's, everything else I prestige immediately), the other for not using FN FAL on Commando. I eventually came back on a 25 Gunslinger, got complained to when they saw I was aiming for limbs, and when I said it was a Bone Breaker build (My Sharpshooter is already my headshot Perk, so I play Bone Breaker on my Gunslinger for diversity), kicked again. They didn't even ask me to switch to Sharp, they just gave me the boot.

Playstyle critique is one thing, but when the players on a server start kicking you for weapon choice of all things, you know it's a snobby stuck-up crowd you don't want to be around.

 

[OnionBubs]

Assuming 6P HoE vanilla games and you are trying to headshot as much as possible.

Please note that anything in this game is "viable" in the sense that it's possible to win the game with it--people have killed bosses with the 9mm and weapon butts--so I'm not giving advice on whether or not a thing is "viable", I am giving advice from a standpoint on what options are better than others.

• Commando
  • Skill tree: RXLLR
    • If your weapon choice doesn't include the 401/FAL, you probably want Impact Rounds to buy time against Scrakes if needed
    • Hi-Cap Mags lets you stretch out your reloads and allows you to magdump things you otherwise wouldn't be able to kill in a single mag; you can just learn to reload cancel for anything that isn't underbarrel attachments which makes Tac Reload largely obsolete
    • Tenacious lets you survive two back-to-back Fleshpound hits without armor; the extra ammo skill is unnecessary unless you are carrying entire rounds repeatedly, in which case the team is already losing
    • Hollow Point Rounds gives you access to stupid breakpoints, no reason not to use it
    • Machine Gunner completely leaves Tactician in the dust w/r/t extensions and being able to kill things in Zed-Time
  • The best all-around weapon loadout is (401 + FAL), since the FAL murders Fleshpounds and Scrakes (as needed) in an extremely brief timeframe assuming you can work the recoil, and the 401 murders literally everything else (including Scrakes, as needed) and provides solid off-perk healing as a bonus. Nothing else kills Commando's main counter-enemy as quickly as the FAL, which is why it's so revered.
    • Remember: the point isn't to make you the team's designated Fleshpound killer, it's that this gun lets you just solo lanes without needing a Demo/Sharp babysitter to get away with it. Commando likes having lanes to themself.
  • Any combination of AK-12/401/SCAR as a loadout is also good as an all-purpose "kills trash" loadout. Unfortunately, none of them solve the Fleshpound issue for Commandos, but they kill everything else nicely.
  • 501 is viable in extremely cramped maps such as The Descent/Nightmare/Powercore and situationally Catacombs, and is almost mandatory if the team does not have a Medic on maps like these. The gas should not be relied on for kills as it will encourage bad habits and ruin your main extensions.
  • Most of Commando's other non-mentioned weapons are mid; only the Minigun is really notable and even then there are other better options.
  • Don't use:
    • The Sentinel; it sounds really annoying, it sucks at killing anything more durable than Crawlers, it shoots trash indiscriminately which causes you to waste Zed-Time extensions like crazy, and the entire point of the game is to shoot things in the head so getting a gun that bodyshots for you is missing the plot. Also, if you deploy one of these things and then die afterwards, the exploding Sentinel can kill other players. Don't use it. Please. It is only good if you and your team are bad at the game
    • The Stoner at this point is basically a worse Minigun unless your team is kiting the entire game, in which case you probably shouldn't be playing Commando
    • The FAMAS is fine on Support but bad on Commando
    • The Shredder is basically a worse Stoner
• Medic
  • LLLLL skill tree, for obvious reasons.
  • The undisputed best and easiest pub endgame option right now is (Healthrower + Hemogoblin), for obvious reasons.
    • The Healthrower raises the skill floor of Medic to the point where you actively have to be falling asleep at the chair, drooling on your keyboard, and shorting it out to mess up healing the team. Even if a player isn't close enough to hose down, you have darts. You can master the 401 over 1000 hours or you can pick this and do basically as well out of the box.
    • The Hemogoblin in its current state packs an potent debuff which triggers off of one hit and stupid upfront damage for a support class weapon, as well as generally high dart uptime and strong per-dart heals. Upgrade this to T4 and you have a support gun that bodies trash instantly while debuffing Scrakes and unraged FPs in one shot. Bosses can also be spammed to keep the debuff on them. It's dumb.
    • The combination of these two weapons means you can keep buffs and prebuffs up basically full-time, which is a huge bonus to the team.
  • The Incision is also a very good alternative for the Hemogoblin for players who justifiably feel dirty using the Hemogoblin. The primary EMP means your team can pretend Scrakes don't exist, and you can pitch in on FP takedowns as needed. Two darts can bring almost anyone that isn't a Dreadnaught Zerk back to full health, The darts can headshot unlike all other dart weapons, which lets you save on ammo since anything under a Gorefiend basically dies in one headshot. The darts pierce, which means you can hit multiple players or multiple Zeds, or both. The darts are hitscan which means you don't have to wait for the lockon if you can aim.
  • The 501 is situationally amazing depending on the map. The gun part is bad, however, gas grenades are already OP and this thing gives you 10 more(with even more if a Support is in play). A single grenade can basically top off anyone that isn't a Dreadnaught Zerk (only mostly healing them) and will guarantee full buffs in about a second, if that.
  • The 401 is for players who feel justifiably dirty using the Healthrower. Good dart uptime (which means good buff uptime), good at removing trash with headshots, teaches you the basics well, slots into any team config.
  • 301's OK, but there's better.
  • Don't use:
    • The 201; it's fine on SWAT in some situations but mediocre on Medic. The 101 is basically better in every metric and you start with that for free. Buying it sets you back on money for better weapons. Skip it.
    • The Mine Reconstructor. The best thing about it is that you can lay out mines in anticipation that players will get hit. Despite this, it cannot prebuff and relies on players getting hit before the mines can heal them. Prebuffing is one of the most important things in a Medic's toolkit. You know what other weapons can prebuff? ALL OF THEM NOT NAMED THE VAMPIRE. THAT INCLUDES THE FRICKIN' STARTER PISTOL. WHICH YOU GET FOR FREE. Speaking of which...
    • The HRG Vampire is a funny meme when playing solo combat medic for farming map achievements but fails in every metric as a team-based healing weapon.
      • It forces you to get on the front lines to build up the blood pool, which you shouldn't be doing as Medic in the first place because that's how you die.
      • It can't heal on demand because you have to charge up the blood ball by extending out in front of your teammates.
      • The blood spike's usefulness basically ends at "can one-shot Rioters through their helmet," which isn't nothing, but absolutely not worth picking this thing over any other option. The Incision does that without a ton of finagling.
    • The HRG Medic Missile is a worse Incision when it comes to killing Scrakes and the healing sucks. It probably says enough that most of the players using this are all Berserkers looking for another source of self-healing. :/
    • The Corruptor Carbine is fine on Sharp but pretty bad on Medic. It kills medium Zeds well enough, but that's not your job, and the healing blast is a complete pain to set up so you might as well pick a weapon that actually heals without having to mess with that.
    • The Hemoclobber sucks, limits you to close range, and is mostly relied upon by players picking the Field Medic to selfishly survive the match over actually being useful.
• Support
  • RRRRR skill tree
  • (AA-12 + Doomstick) or (AA-12 + T3/T4 Boomstick) are the all-around standby loadouts for good reason. The AA-12 sweeps anything with well-placed volleys and the Boom/Doom murder large Zeds and can be reload-cancelled for extremely quick takedowns. AA-12 can decap larges when needed but shouldn't be exclusively used for that due to ammo restrictions. Boom/Doom grant you shotgun jumps which lets you evade-kite larges and bosses very effectively when needed. No futher notes necessary.
  • The Shockgun is basically an M4 with an added "get off me" button that instakills anything below a Gorefiend.
  • The Blunderbuss is basically an Unreal Tournament flak cannon. The main thing stopping this from being amazing is that the unreliability of projectiles coming out of this weapon; sometimes stuff just vanishes and that feels terrible.
  • Most other Support weapons are mostly fine. They're not meta but usually reliably murder things.
  • Don't use:
    • The Trenchgun because it sets things on fire which makes them harder to headshot, the pellets are affected by gravity and fall to the ground, the spread is horrendous even with Tight Choke, and in most cases it is basically a downgrade from the starter shotgun.
    • The Frost Fang because it's a huge crutch despite the fact that it's worse on Support compared to the other two perks it's meant for.
    • The Blast Brawlers are a Survivalist weapon disguised as a Support weapon.
    • The Ballistic Bouncer is extremely annoying for other players as it doesn't kill things effectively, it basically stumbles them to death.

I can follow up with the rest of the perks later because there's a lot to type and I have other things to do first, but that should cover for what you mentioned in the OP. Feel free to ask for clarification on anything.

While this doesn't really answer your question it provides a lot of useful information.

Steam Community :: Guide :: A Beginner's Guide to CD

A "basic knowledge and how to fight" guide on a mod server harder than the official highest difficulty "Hell on Earth". KF2 Version: 1143...

steamcommunity.com

This isn't really an answer to Foxhound3857's question, sadly; CD games can require different loadouts from the main 6P HoE games.

I played on two of those servers recently and got kicked from both of them, one for using a duplicate perk and not having another 25 to switch to (Commando and Medic are my only Hard 25's, everything else I prestige immediately), the other for not using FN FAL on Commando.

This is getting off topic from the OP, but I wanted to answer it.

Almost all Controlled Difficulty games, no matter who or what is hosting them, will have various ground rules you need to keep in mind. All of them are going to be harder than the default HoE difficulty and thus they will be drawing people who are looking to hone their skills to the fullest extent--which in the context of KF2 means "six players earning headshots or go home"--and that means you're going to run into players looking to enforce specific playstyles by way of the game's difficulty:

• Chaos perks are usually not allowed because they make the game too easy for too little effort and/or because they clash with precision perks. For example, Firebug doesn't have to care about added trash because it all dies with no aiming required, while spouting flames everywhere makes life miserable for anyone running precision weapons.
• Running duplicate perks is sometimes a bad idea in the main game, it's just that the main game doesn't really punish you harshly for doing so. But doubling up on Commandos (Zed-Time interference) and Medics (flat loss of DPS for no return on healing) is frowned upon and any CD server will enforce that. If the duplicate perk is Gunslinger and all the other bases are covered, that's not going to be frowned upon because an extra Gunslinger played well is added headshot DPS and thus considered a boon to the team.
• Some weapons and playstyles are disallowed because they make the game flatly easier, and thus boring. For example, LLLLL M99/Railgun Sharp and LLLLL RPG/C4 Demo are disallowed because they basically let the team pretend large Zeds don't exist, and large Zeds are one of the primary challenge points of the game because trash is so fragile that good teams will clean it up extremely quickly with no large Zeds to add any challenge to that. Sharps playing M14 Marksman are welcome because it shows you're at least trying.
• Conversely, some playstyles are detrimental to how high-level CD play works. If you're not headshotting, you're dead weight. Hitting heads means things die faster. Playing bodyshot Gunslinger is, frankly speaking, just playing a worse Firebug.

I eventually came back on a 25 Gunslinger, got complained to when they saw I was aiming for limbs, and when I said it was a Bone Breaker build (My Sharpshooter is already my headshot Perk, so I play Bone Breaker on my Gunslinger for diversity), kicked again.
...
Playstyle critique is one thing, but when the players on a server start kicking you for weapon choice of all things, you know it's a snobby stuck-up crowd you don't want to be around.

Adding to the above: people serious about playing CD games are going to assume other players are serious about playing CD, and will curate their own environments where that mentality is encouraged and enforced. So If a CD Sharpshooter main sees someone running, for example, a Medic with the HRG Vampire or a Gunslinger running Spitfires and bodyshotting, then they will assume bad faith and will usually kick on sight rather than give a chance because the assumption is that someone doing that in the first place isn't being serious about playing CD. A Demo running the HRG Bombardier is unfortunately accepted in the main game, but is unwelcome in CD for reasons I shouldn't need to elaborate on.

Plenty of weapons and playstyle choices in the game that you can get away with in the main game will not fly on CD. The team is working as a team and not six solo players who happen to share a lobby, and anything perceived as bad for the team will be excised as a result.

Don't shoot the messenger; though I don't play on those named servers specifically, I've played CD games myself so I get how it goes.

 

[Foxhound3857]

Why reloads over magazine size for Support? 35 rounds vs 20 is a lot for the AA-12, and really I just play it like Commando, focus on trash, reload-cancel if needed and pick my moments to slam another clip in. If I have to switch weapons it's usually to the HZ12 or M4 so I can create a moment of calm to reload my weapons properly. I don't play Doom/Boom anymore because I've since learned to parry Fleshpounds with my Knife, as DBS Kiting is unreliable against them (too much variance in their attack speed/patterns, sometimes I time it perfectly and get hit for 60+ anyway). Prefer to just parry the charge, heal and unload again.

Lately though I've been running Shockgun as my main, so it's a question of what to pair with it, M4, HZ12, or AA12. Or Even HM301 and allow me enough room for Bombadier to seal behind doors.

I'm trying to learn the FAL's recoil, but if Fleshpounds are a problem then I often just go for the M16/M203 instead. One grenade is 20% of a Fleshpounds health on 6man Suicidal, even with no upgrades. SCAR/401/501 are more than sufficient for Scrakes even without Impact Rounds (and I prefer Fallback for the switch speed and having the 9mm as a serviceable tertiary if I run dry in a long HoE wave). I save my HE Grenades solely for Fleshpounds and nothing else. If I don't have to worry about healing others, M16/SCAR is my gold standard.

My Commando runs RLLLR, my Support LRLLR. I find I don't need stumble with the S12 or M4, they both pack enough to drive Scrakes back on their own, so I can give my team more ammo instead.

My go-to for Medic is HM501+Healthrower OR HM501+Hemoglobin. But no matter what the situation is, HM501 is always a must for the nades. You really only need one Dart weapon for healing, especially if it's a constricted map where everyone will always be in range of nades and Healthrower.

P.S: I still really, really wish the M14EBR would be made Commando-Crossperk. I don't know why it isn't, it's a Battle Rifle just like the FAL, trading better accuracy and slightly more damage for a lack of full-auto. If they don't make it cross-perk, then at least lower the FNFAL or HM501 weight by 1 (make one of them a 7) so I can use both together.

 

[OnionBubs]

First off, just to cover for the perks I missed last time:

• Berserker
  • The best build and weapons vary depending on your anticipated role
  • Tank build:
    • LXRLX skill tree
      • Vampire and Berserker Rage give you better tanking during trash waves at the cost of damage output, but remember that dead things can't hit you; if you have a good medic, don't bother with these; if you have to solo a lane, might need them
      • If all else fails, spam "REQUEST HEAL"
    • Bone Crusher is a non-negotiable due to its parry/block capabilities
    • VLAD is a good secondary because the spike damage on the alt-fire is powerful and the single-fire lets you pick off trash nicely, but its usefulness agasinst HVTs is hampered if you're not running damage skills
    • Use whatever else feels comfortable as long as it means you block bosses and melee-lock them
    • If you are not comfortable with any of the weapons or are not sure if you're going to get Abomination for a boss, picking the Eviscerator is always a viable fallback strategy; it does a lot of things OK but not great at anything, the important part is that it can still block effectively and shoot
  • Damage build:
    • XRRLX skill tree
      • Dread/Skirmish will be determined by what your team is doing and whether or not you have a decent Medic; if you are holding the line Skirmish is kinda pointless
      • Ditto for Spartan/Rage
    • Use VLAD for quick HVT disposal with all damage skills activated
    • Zweihander is the highest skillcap melee weapon but it is the hardest to use
    • Static Strikers are a good alternative that gives the wielder team support with the EMP hits, but the shorter range is noticeable
    • Battle Axe is a lower-risk-lower-reward alternative to Zwei or Vlad for large Zeds if you don't like those; your TTK will suffer but it is easy enough to just heavy-overhead things a couple of times
    • Most other weapons are OK and will let you kill trash fine if you're not confident enough with anything else but you will struggle with large Zeds
    • Don't use:
      • The Fire Axe (too slow to be reliable as a universal tool in this game)
      • The Hemoclobber (crutch city)
      • The Pulverizer (Hemo but worse; the TTK on Fleshpounds is laughable)
      • The Road Redeemer (fun, but bad; it is a katana with bash damage and 1 extra weight...for some reason?)
• Firebug
  • LRXLL skill tree
  • basically don't use the Mac-10 or the Husk Cannon, otherwise it's really hard to screw this class up because it's made of tons of safety nets despite not having runspeed or extra health, which is impressive in its own right
  • don't light Fleshpounds on fire please
  • Thermite Bore lets the game play itself; it's a rocket launcher that dispenses molotovs which explode, last for 7 seconds, and basically kill anything lower than a Husk; it gets even dumber in Zed-Time when you can coat the entire surrounding area in fire
  • Helios Rifle allows you to chip in with larges/mediums via headshot microwave damage; you can still bodyshot Scrakes to death pretty well with this but please don't rely on that
  • Dragonsbreath is possibly the strongest Tier 2 in the game tied with the SPX; good direct damage for Gorefasts/fiends and mediums, 100% guaranteed to spawn ground fire with each pellet which means you have access to distance groundfires by the second wave, absolutely devours trash, is an absolute monster at holding chokepoints, absolutely punches well above its weight and cost, can be spammed rapid-fire during Zed-Time to make it even more ridiculous
  • Dragonsblaze has ground fires that apparently stack, which lets you erase boss fights
• Demo
  • LLLLL skill tree
  • Demo's best loadouts are centralized around the RPG because the RPG allows the Demo to output unparalleled spike damage that can only be matched by a RailSharp on top of their game.
    • Trash just dies, although using it exclusively against trash is a bad idea due to ammo contstraints
      • It gets even more ridiculous with Destroyer of Worlds due to the damage modifiers that DoW grants the user
    • It has a 400% impact damage boost against Scrakes allowing you to one-tap them in the head with a single T5 rocket, a .500 shot + T4 rocket, or a T4 rocket with full Medic boosts
    • It can knock down Fleshpounds and leave them vulnerable for easy followup hits
  • The C4 is one of the hardest weapons to understand and properly wield because of the sheer number of unmentioned mechanics, but it basically gives you a second supply of rockets for large Zeds and bosses
    • You can track bosses that cloak by sticking C4s on them and following the blinking lights/sounds
  • RPG/C4/.500 is the best anti-HVT loadout but it will need cover from trash; this loadout is banned from quite a few CD servers because it invalidates multi-FP spawns if the user is competent
  • if for some reason you are allergic to specialization, Kaboomstick is the ultimate "aiming is hard" weapon and completely invalidates the RPG demo's intended weakness against trash while still letting you carry the RPG to spam against large Zeds; it's broken good and doesn't belong in this game
  • Blunderbuss still has the issues I mentioned under support in my previous post, but it's scary, especially on solo offline where you don't have to worry about vanishing projectiles
  • All the other weapons are pretty bleh; don't play this perk as an anti-trash perk because Firebug does that 100x better
  • If you are an absolute god-tier "I can see the code"-level Demo player, the Seeker Six is basically the Demo's poor man's version of the Sharpshooter's M14, but for the love of God ask before you commit to this in a serious game
  • Don't use:
    • The Bombardier because it's extremely annoying and teaches bad habits, and can also kill other players if the deploying user dies mid-wave
    • The Gravity Imploder because it's a troll weapon that throws off other players and displaces Zeds
    • The Husk Cannon because it's basically a suicide keybind in weapon form
• Sharpshooter
  • LLLLL skill tree
    • click heads
    • Railgun/SPX is the best loadout overall; remember to reload-cancel those railgun shots
    • M99/.500 is generally inferior but has a place on QP-heavy situations, such as taking it against the King Fleshpound so you can instadelete his buddies
  • RLLRR skill tree
    • click heads
    • M14 paired with other weapons is an oldie but goodie
    • M14 / SPX is usually preferred for good reason
      • M14+1 / SPX +2
      • SPX murders larges and M14 murders anything except kinda Fleshpounds
      • click heads
    • M14 / FAL
      • Good universal loadout against trash; has more trouble with larges than other alternatives but is manageable
      • The FAL is basically a second M14 with quite a few extra shots, slightly worse breakpoints, and a full-auto magdump for Fleshpound headtraces with a very small margin for error
      • click heads
    • M14 / Storm Cannon
      • The Storm Cannon is really stupid if you can headshot with it, despite the clunky nature of the gun
      • Most CD servers ban this because it's so powerful with good players that it makes stacking Sharpshooters a cheat strategy
      • click heads
  • Most other weapons are usually OK or situational at best but not outright terrible
  • click heads
  • Don't use:
    • The Beluga Beat or Head Hunter, because they play absolutely nothing like how Sharpshooter was designed and will teach you terrible habits
    • The Spitfire, duh
• Gunslinger
  • RLRLR
  • click heads and don't get hit
  • Don't use:
    • The Spitfires
    • The Piranha Pistols
    • The Disrupter
    • The Winterbites (will teach you bad habits)
    • The Rhinos
• SWAT
  • RRLRR skill tree past the first couple of waves (LLRLR for starting waves)
  • Don't use Mac-10 or HRG Stunner and you're probably fine
  • Most of SWAT's weapons function very similarly to each other so I'm not going over the nuances of each individual one; most are pretty obsolete when compared to the below mentioned weapons but that doesn't make them objectively terrible, just less powerful
  • HRG Nailgun is SWAT's dedicated anti-Fleshpound weapon that works fairly well against everything else in addition; obvious endgame choice
  • G36C is a blatantly easier version of the Kriss as an endgame weapon that kills everything the Nailgun doesn't, including armored enemies and bosses
    • This weapon does not make SWAT a good pick against bosses, only less bad; there is still no reason to take SWAT over a Sharp or Demo stack
  • If you can't afford the G36C or don't want to use DLC the Kriss still does absolutely fine, just that some enemies are more annoying since you can't completely ignore their armor
  • If you are playing by the honor system and playing old-school SWAT without cheese weapons, your best loadout is 201/Kriss/UMP.
    • The UMP one-taps Gorefasts
    • The 201 has unlimited darts with Rapid Assault and kills trash effectively enough after the many buffs it has received

---

Now to address the above post:

I'm getting a lot of confusing signs on your response post; from what I'm reading it sounds like you're playing 6P Suicidal and you rely on taking damage frequently where it could otherwise be avoided with better habits and weapon choices.

Why reloads over magazine size for Support?

Fast reloads because:

1. Reloading sucks with most of Support's guns, especially the tube-fed shotguns.
2. Having extra shells is largely overkill to the point of blowing past diminishing returns because nothing should survive long enough with Support's damage output for you to run dry on an entire mag (and in the event that happens, you don't need eighteen seconds to get enough shells in your gun to fend off incoming problems), and not having fast reloads means that taking hits when you do have to reload is far more likely. Like, 35 on the AA-12 is a lot and funny to burn through, but there's never been a point in my career in KF2 where I needed the extended capacity; even Fleshpounds die in ~10-11 headshots in 6P HoE IIRC.
3. Fast reloads affects all of Support's guns, and:
4. Having fast reloads is what allows you to reload-cancel Fleshpounds and Scrakes to death with Boom/Doom. But before I address that...

really I just play it like Commando, focus on trash,

I mean, this is a way to play Support, but Support can be kitted as a very competent generalist instead of just focusing on trash (and Commando and SWAT are frankly much, much better anti-trash perks than even a dedicated Support due to having rapid-fire hitscan options that don't have any travel time, penetration be darned). Without large Zed executions you're missing out on so much of its potential.

In fact, Support absolutely flounders in some environments where Commando flourishes. For example, take wide-open holdouts where Zeds have multiple angles of approach. Supports do badly in this kind of environment. Commandos don't.

Support can output absolutely stupid spike damage and delete hallways but that requires understanding the perk kits, the weapons, and getting comfortable with certain options you might not normally use. It requires a fair bit of risk to reap that reward.

allow me enough room for Bombadier to seal behind doors.

So this is probably the first habit you should learn to kick. That definitely isn't in basic Support discussion threads, let alone the meta. Why are you using a Bombardier--a weapon with pretty lousy damage even on Demo--as an offperk item that deals even less damage?

Are you welding doors behind drones for the sole purpose of letting them shoot trash?

I don't need stumble with the S12 or M4, they both pack enough to drive Scrakes back on their own, so I can give my team more ammo instead.

Resupply Pack is fine for the early no-Scrake waves (when you could actually run into ammo issues because everyone is poor and has no weapons) since you don't need stumble for trash/mediums but stops being helpful late-game with good teams and stops you from reaching maximum kill potential. Partially because good teams don't need the extra ammo as they start hitting more and more shots reliably, and because they don't need the armor as they learn to get hit less.
You don't need stumble for those two guns specifically, although stumble is usually never a bad option for any gun because Support likes being in really close range to get off its big beef damage, and stumble stops things like Scrakes from turning your head into a cereal bowl mid-takedown so you can headtrace them during the stumble animation for the aforementioned big damage.

Where stumble absolutely shines is in allowing players to no-hit Scrakes and Fleshpounds for extremely quick takedowns using the Doomstick (+1) and Boomstick (+2). Which leads me to my next point:

I don't play Doom/Boom anymore because I've since learned to parry Fleshpounds with my Knife, as DBS Kiting is unreliable against them (too much variance in their attack speed/patterns, sometimes I time it perfectly and get hit for 60+ anyway). Prefer to just parry the charge, heal and unload again.

So in the time it takes to shoot things, take out your knife, parry the hit (which basically does nothing to reduce damage because the knife has poor parry/block values), switch back to your weapon, shoot, switch, parry, etc.--and that's assuming you aren't being crowded out in the meantime by the trash swelling up behind a large Zed--well, it's not the most graceful means of taking things down quickly. Kiting jumpshots have their place, mind, but not as a main source of takedown damage because they will allow the Zeds to start revving up to kill you.
This strategy, by the way, is exactly what large Zeds are designed to punish; in hectic situations, they act as shock troopers for the trash to disrupt the team, thus allowing the trash Zeds to slip through and deal tons of damage so you either deal with the trash and get hit by the HVTs, or you take too long to kill the HVTs and get eaten by trash.

But if you could learn to kill things in 1-2 seconds with the Doomstick? It's pretty sweet with a little practice. DBS+2 is a little less graceful, but still doable. Doomstick holds the honor of being the only thing in the game that stumbles preraged Fleshpounds.

So yeah, I can see why you'd be dissuaded from trying to deal with Fleshpounds with that perk loadout; you'd need to mix it up and try learning takedowns for full effect. Hence the suggestion for RRRRR, as popularized by the Supports who wrote the good Steam guides and made the good videos.

if Fleshpounds are a problem then I often just go for the M16/M203 instead. One grenade is 20% of a Fleshpounds health on 6man Suicidal, even with no upgrades.
...
I save my HE Grenades solely for Fleshpounds and nothing else. If I don't have to worry about healing others, M16/SCAR is my gold standard.

The M16 is unfortunately a noob trap for Fleshpounds, because despite it being an explosive weapon its damage output against FPs in practice is mediocre at best. A grenade is enough to set off a Fleshpound and get you or someone else hit, and if you're just spamming explosives, that's a lot of re-rages before the thing dies. (There is technically a decap takedown with the M16 that requires hitting a dud round in the head and then following up with ~35 bullets to the head as it stumbles and then goes through the rage animation, but that takedown is both unreliable and quite easy to fumble; trust me on that.) If you want to rely on spamming M203 grenades, you have to take Tactical Reload, which locks you out of high-cap mags for all weapons just for the sake of faster M203 reloads, which stinks.
The HE grenades? Same issue. It takes about 10 HE grenades to kill one Fleshpound and you have a maximum of 5.
The FAL headtrace, while it is hard to learn, kills them in about 2 seconds.

The M16 and HE grenades do have a place against Quarter Pounds because headshots basically don't matter against those and they will die to explosive spam, but Fleshpounds are too tanky to spam to death without eating several hits in 6P HoE.

 

[Foxhound3857]

Well unfortunately I'm not good enough to be lining up headshots in every situation. If I have a good lane to myself and things are relatively tame I can line up headsahots against the marching zeds with some proficiency, but once things get out of control and I start getting driven back the priority changes from being efficient to just surviving at any cost, and when I'm being flanked from multiple angles then I need to take the heat off of myself as quickly as possible, and that generally means going full-auto and aiming for center mass (and center mass is what I prioritize as a Support, to take full advantage of my penetration, I DO NOT like Tight Choke).

That's why I value the HM501 so much. It has saved my life countless times in situations where I'm completely boxed in by Crawlers and Stalkers just by letting me drop a grenade at my feet, clearing them out and quickly getting my health back. I'd like to say I shouldn't need to rely on that strategy, but as you said before, the worse your team is, the more appealing it looks, and that's also why I tend to avoid HoE unless I'm in the mood to play one of my 25's. Too many games end in failure.

Am I good enough to decap an enraged Scrake with the SCAR/FAL before it reaches me? Unfortunately...no. I usually have to fall back and/or switch weapons to finish it off. My aim just isn't good enough fighting the recoil of those weapons to score the necessary amount of headshots to decap a Scrake/Fleshpound in a 6m Suicidal game before my magazine runs dry.

But I will keep practicing.

P.S: The Bombadier thing is only a temporary habit as I work towards max Prestige on Demo. Once I hit max Prestige the Bombadier will be retired from all perks permanently.

 

[OnionBubs]

Well unfortunately I'm not good enough to be lining up headshots in every situation.

Sure, but given that headshots are ultimately the fastest way to dispatch Zeds in 99.9% of situations, that expectation goes part-and-parcel with any discussion of meta loadouts (which focus on headshots), and thus any sort of meta list has to take that into account by proxy.

But at the end of the day, the game at base level ultimately isn't hard enough to mandate meta loadouts; in its current state half of the perks are basically playing an easier version of the same KF2 game regardless of difficulty while the other half are actually playing a somewhat-intended difficulty curve. If the game was balanced and tweaked accordingly to properly offer a challenge, then community-run custom difficulty servers which lock out 1/3 of the weapons and half of the game's perks wouldn't be a thing lmao. But it is what it is.

 

[Foxhound3857]

I try as much as I can to prioritize headshots as a Commando, especially since I'm trying to learn how to control the FAL's recoil with full-auto. But when the priority shifts from efficiency to just staying alive, center mass is much faster for me than trying to line up headshots when things are directly in my face, especially if I need to push through a door just to get some breathing room.

That's why I don't understand why the SCAR gets a bad rep for being inefficient. The ammo is cheap and it's capable of one-tapping Clots, Cysts, Crawlers and Stalkers with body shots. That, IMO, makes it an even more efficient weapon in terms of trash clearing, that you don't need to constantly prioritize headshots with it to get quick kills with minimal ammo consumption, especially if you upgrade it. 67x1.55=104 damage per bullet. Really only the FAL can compete with that, particularly against Fleshpounds.

But IMHO, there's no such thing as "overkill." Not for a Commando at least.

 

[Aleflippy]

You already got pretty good answers, and I believe checking out some Steam guides or dedicated KF2-youtubers would definitely provide all the info that you need. Hell, you might as well try to jump into a harder game with competent players and ask them for advice. But since it's a forum and everybody is allowed to share their two cents... I figured I might do the same ! Keep in mind though that I'm definitely not the best player out there, and my main difficulty of choice is SUICIDAL (not Hell on Earth), so people like Onionbubs might have a much better idea of what to choose from, based from their tremendous experience.

SWAT : I usually go with Heavy Armor Training, Close Combat Training and Assault Armor at the beginning of the round. I feel like SWAT has the best rollout due to such perks which are really money-saver on a freshly-started game. Afterwards, I'll go RRLRL personally, but the extra ammo from "Ammo Vest" as well as the bonuses of "Rapid Assault" are quite alright as far as I'm concerned.

For weaponry, I'll stick to my MP7 as long as possible, eventually upgrading it once if needed. I'll then switch to the HRG Nailgun, as it's an absolute melter against Fleshpounds, which is the one zed the perk usually struggles a little bit against. Saving some money to get the KRISS Vector is not a bad idea at all however, although purchasing the G36C might be tempting if you bought the DLC... It's cheap, sure. But you can't deny it's one of the very best option against EDARs and Rioters as it currently stands. Naturally, the Bastion increases your already pretty impressive resilience. Whatever you ultimate, main weapon of choice is, you should definitely back it up with something else (again, the MP7 is pretty neat, but the Vector is even better if you can afford it), simply due to how much of a bullet hose the whole perk is.

Sharpshooter : Again, no one loves Sharpie as much as Onion does ! So I'd highly recommend the absolutely DISGUSTING "LLLLL" choice of skills... although, as he mentioned, it's so damn busted against anything that it's no wonder some custom rules might outright ban it.

For weapons, I'd say the Sharpshooter is divided into two subclasses (my TF2 player mind at works once again!). You can either go full-on nuker, or be a more versatile marksman. I tend to favor the latter, in which case I'll either keep my LAR for a long time, or switch to the Centerfire and keep it... seemingly forever? Upgrading it as I go. The M14 EBR is certainly not a bad choice, and it can quickly pull out some very impressive damage with Rack'Em Up... but I personally don't like its scope, so I usually stick to the Centerfire !

For a more traditional sniper, I'll pretty much do the exact same, but try to switch to the Railgun (and ultimately : the M99 AMR) as soon as I can, but only if I can keep something handy on the side (usually a .500 magnum... but I'll usually buy one whenever I'm playing "marksman" as well. Just in case...). Personally, I also enjoy playing some sort of hybrid class of sort : keeping the Railgun due to its lighter weight, and sporting the Centerfire for anything that isn't a stronger target.

Gunslinger : LLRLL tends to be my go-to, because even though you're playing a more nimble sharpshooter, accuracy is once again key. I personally believe that the GS' guns tend to shoot quite fast already, so I'd rather go all-guns-blazing during Zed time.

As for weaponry, I'll either go with a single deagle and rack up some large amount of money quickly... but it requires you to be extra accurate with your headshots, or rely on your team a bit more to make up for your lack of resources. I'll them usually slowly build up my arsenal with more and more dualies. Double deagles and double .500 magnums are usually enough to deal with swarms of zeds, and it still allows you to be quite fast even when fully upgraded. But you might desire to go full-on armory and go for double 1911s as well... Although I believe it is quite overkill.

Or... You could go the lazy route and go for the Centerfire once again ! It's still bloody awesome and efficient, with a little less firepower for better mobility. Again : upgrade as you go, and don't be afraid to grab a sidearm of your choice to make up for the lengthy reloads. Purchasing better and better sidegrades as the game progresses. As much as I enjoy blasting everything in front of me with the G18s... They're sadly far too greedy in their ammo consumption. And considering you're still playing a PRECISION perk... It kinda removes a lot of what makes the Gunslinger flow.

Firebug : LRRRR is the way to go, although it pains me to say so. Pretty much every skill is tailored to making you even more of a powerhouse, greatly increasing your firepower against... pretty much anything. It also applies to nearly if not all of your weapons.

And speaking of the devil... Where to start? The firebug is JAM-PACKED with excellent if not outright overpowered choices. Most of them being quite different from one another, allowing to switch every now and then.

My go-to move is to either go straight for a single Spitfire (definitely my favorite sidearm for any Firebug loadout... it's just so cheap, reliable, powerful, accurate and with PLENTY of spare ammo), or my beloved trenchgun which I'll often run with until the very end. It just does everything and then more. And since it is now capable of spreading ground fire... It's downright broken. You can't hardly go wrong with the trenchgun under any circumstances, and it still acts as a potent sidegrade should you wish to invest in another, higher-tiered weapon. And whenever I do... Anything goes basically. Incendiary Rifle? Helios Rifle? Dragonblaze? Hell, even the Husk Cannon can turn anything into a BBQ party. The truth is... The firebug is such a ridiculously powerful weapon that nearly everything WORKS. With so many useful skills and passives playing right into your power, it would probably be easier to list what DOESN'T work... And I can't even name one thing that is really a money-sinker that wouldn't ever work.

Demo : Firebug's distant cousin in terms of wacky, yet very effective and generous arsenal. Its skills are no laughing matter either... I would choose LLLLL, for similar reasons as the Sharpie and for the reasons Onion mentions as well. It's just... ludicrous. It destroys anything that moves. It sounds pretty reductive, but quite often : the best strategy to win is simply to kill everything as fast as possible before they even begin to be a problem...

For weapons, the sad truth is that both the Tommyboom and Kaboomstick are just way too good at what they do. They're fairly inexpensive, totally safe to use and they blast everything without much drawback. Should you wish to play the Demo without any challenge at all, I guess... go for it?

If you do believe that challenges are part of a game's spice, then I'd probably go with the HX-25 for quite some time, ideally saving my money up until I get the RPG-7, the absolute bread and butter of any talented Demo. It's a tremendously powerful boom-stick, that is still made balanced due to the fact that it's heavy, clunky and requires some aiming if you want to make the most of it. Keeping the HX-25 (along with one or two upgrades) is usually enough to ward off any zed that might have slipped through. But I personally like to run the M16 along with it... or if my team is low on players/not very good. It's NOT a great weapon, but it does the job of cleaning up trash decently well should your team slack off a little. Again, when it comes to sidegrades, both the Tommyboom and Kaboomstick are probably much better options... But they're so cheap that I'd rather handicap myself with something more in line with the Demo's core design.

I tend to shamefully forget about C4, but you shouldn't ! It can be a little tricky to know when to buy it, then when to use it... But those are effectively 8 extra grenades that you can stick to zeds, and blast off at will. Needless to say, they can add some tremendous firepower to your arsenal.

Field Medic : fairly straightforward, if you're playing alone, go RRRRR. If you got people, play LLLLR. It's pretty simple. Most left-skills won't bring you any bonuses if you're playing on your own, as it requires healing targets. And if you're playing with people... Your job as a medic is to boost them up rather than yourself, considering you SHOULD be the one perk that kills the least (which is absolutely not the case in-game... but that's a whole other issue)

For weapons, the Medic joins the unholy trifecta of the Firebug and Demo for having a truckload of weapons with very different feelings, yet surprisingly efficient results. My best advice is to crank up AS MUCH HEALING AS POSSIBLE, meaning you should ideally have three weapons in your arsenal whenever available (your main weapon, a sidegrade and finally the super inexpensive and lightweight Hmtech-101 pistol). I tend to go old-school and favor both the HMtech-401 Assault Rifle and the HMtech-201 SMG, but both the Incision and Hmtech-501 are infamous for being quite stupidly powerful at their job. So you might switch up with one of those.

Support : I go RRRLR most of the time, although I believe the level 15 skill is somewhat... trivial? You'll rarely need more than your passive penetration bonus to get rid of multiple zeds, but at the same time, I also believe that tighter spread is kind of a mixed bag. It really depends on your shotgun of choice, and having bigger spread can sometimes be useful if you're trying to take on multiple zeds at very close ranges. As a team-player, I prefer to go with "Ressuply Pack" rather than "Concussion Rounds", but it's also very depending on both you and your team's skills. If all of you know how to properly manage your ammo and aim correctly, it's really not as attractive as stumbling zeds with a nice lead punch.

When it comes to weapons, I must admit that I like... nearly everything. I'm a shotgun addict and I tend to enjoy using them all, even when they're clearly outmatched.

Although the modest SG 500 is pretty good to keep until the middle of the match, I tend to quickly swap it for either the Boomstick (which can definitely be kept as a sidearm later on... it's pretty cheap, light and POWERFUL in that regard!), or the HRG Buckshot. I don't know if it's that good... I doubt it honestly. But again : cheap, lightweight and with the added bonus of being semi-auto and reloading everything at once. It just clicks to me better than the SG-500.

It pains me however to admit that my beloved and underrated Benelli M4 is pretty much outclassed by the Medic's Combat Shotgun, although not by much. While the latter deals a bit less damage, it packs two extra shells, reloads its whole mag at once, shoots faster and packs more reserve ammo. It's a great all-rounder, and definitely handy as a diet AA-12 if money is a little short. When it comes to your weapon of mass destruction however... I think very few things are capable of matching the aforementioned AA-12 ! Some people seems to prefer the Doomstick for its sheer firepower... But I'll gladly enjoy the comfort of my beloved AA-12 for many years to come. There's a reason why it's been the ultimate choice for Supports since KF1 : it does everything without much issue. Adept at clearing trash and taking down big guys, fairly generous mags, okay levels of accuracy for a shotgun... I'll probably never leave it. And I'll make sure to pair a solid boomstick along with it.

Commando : RRLLR is my pick. Just like the SWAT, its tempting to get "Fallback" for the first one or two waves, in order to save a few bucks. But you should switch up right after. I also believe that maxing out your magazine size can be pretty fun to just goof around... But overall, it's generally better to reload a tad faster and pack meaner punches too.

When it comes to guns, it took me a very LONG time to figure out that aiming for the head with a single-firing AR-15 Varmint is surprisingly good ! It really hits harder than expected, and it's pretty easy to manage your ammo for a long time. Along with very cheap refills, it can definitely last you a good chunk of the game, with no issue at all. I'll then swap it up with the AK12, a pretty formidable weapon often outshined by its peers. It can definitely become my primary damage dealer along with an upgrade or two, but I might as well swap it (or supplement it) with my good ol' SCAR-H. Eventually, I'll usually want to run both weapons at once, for increasing firepower and reliability. Sometimes... Old truly is gold !

Berserker : RRRLR is my go-to. Parry is an absolute MUST and passive health regen is better overall with your increased res and mobility than a flat health increase. But you also require the extra damage to become the ultimate monster you strive to be !

When it comes to weapon... I must disclose that I'm no Zerk expert. In fact... it's probably my least played perk, and the one I have the least fun with. So I'll simply spread those two tips => 1) The Crovel is far stronger than it might seem at first, and with a high-level and maybe a single upgrade, you can already slaughter everything besides big zeds without much problem. 2) The Vlad is a way better sidegrade than anything else. It's inexpensive and not too heavy, while being a godsend against crawlers specifically, but also a much safer option against husks or bloats for example ! As a tank enthusiast, I tend to run the Bone Crusher whenever I can, but I also like turning FPs into minced meat with the Pulverizer... Although I believe it's far from meta these days.

 

[OnionBubs]

I try as much as I can to prioritize headshots as a Commando

Good! Headshotting is integral to playing well as Commando, and honestly, integral to long-term appreciation for this game. If it didn't have that element of skill I would've dropped the game well before I hit 4-digit hours played, maybe even 3-digit hours.

Even if they didn't flatly increase kill efficiency as Commando, they also increase the likelihood that you'll trigger the Zed-Time you're responsible for extending.

And to illustrate that importance:

That's why I don't understand why the SCAR gets a bad rep for being inefficient...

The SCAR is mostly fine, just overkill for trash clearing assuming you can headshot. It is by no means a throw pick and it's still one of the better feeling weapons in the game.
It sounds fine, it's easy to handle recoil-wise both off- and on-perk, and it does kill trash. It's just not one of the best because of how it interacts with headshots vs. most of Commando's late-game arsenal.

The TL;DR of it is that the SCAR on its own is unimpressive, exists in an awkward spot, and it's mostly the T5 upgrade option carrying the SCAR.
Without that upgrade you are basically saving a single bullet on mostly medium Zeds and not a lot else in exchange for overkill on trash compared to other options while simultaneously being worse against larges compared to the AK-12.
With the upgrade you are basically paying $3000 + ammo expenses + not having the FAL in your arsenal to bodyshot Clots.

That doesn't make it non-viable or an objectively terrible weapon in the grand scope of things.** It's just that when you get to the point of hair-splitting there are other better options for min-maxing. Thing is that if you can reliably headshot(!) it has to compete with two primary rifles in 6P HoE as far as meta choices go: the AK-12 and the 401, and unfortunately it doesn't fare quite as well in the grand scheme of things for players who are already technically skilled enough to not need its one major upside.
Let's break that down.

The ammo is cheap and it's capable of one-tapping Clots, Cysts, Crawlers and Stalkers with body shots. That, IMO, makes it an even more efficient weapon in terms of trash clearing, that you don't need to constantly prioritize headshots with it to get quick kills with minimal ammo consumption, especially if you upgrade it. 67x1.55=104 damage per bullet.

Assume Lv. 25, RXLLR skill tree, 6P HoE.

Any T3 and up hits the 1SBS breakpoint, so that's not a huge achievement. It is an important breakpoint, mind, just not exclusive to the SCAR; even the Bullpup might do that at this point as much as it's been buffed, I honestly forget.
As for Crawlers, well, the starting Varmint Rifle hits the 1SBS on them, so...moving on.

Last time I checked the SCAR hits the 1SBS breakpoint Clots/Cysts/Slashers only if you upgrade it to Tier 5, which requires a not-insubstantial investment of $1500 plus buying the weapon for $1500. That's not a small sum, especially if you unfortunately die with something else out. Just one more thing to consider in a match re: econ.
I'll grant that this is a point in its favor compared to the AK-12 and is objectively a good thing, but again: it's mostly the upgrade that's carrying the weapon. But this comes at a cost: not having the FAL in your loadout. Which locks you out of Fleshpound takedowns.
All this for a better bodyshot breakpoint against clots. And once you get reliably better at this game you won't need the bodyshots to deal with them because...well, they're clots.

When headshots come into play, it becomes less attractive compared to the AK-12:

• Both weapons share mostly identical TTKs/breakpoints on anything that isn't a Fleshpound
  • Meaning SCAR's techically higher damage per bullet is mostly a non-factor against trash Zeds, the thing you will be shooting a lot of
  • The AK-12 is actually faster TTK-wise against Scrakes if you can reliably connect the burst-fire chains required to maximize DPS
• T5 AK-12 actually lets you 1-mag Fleshpounds
  • ...though the margin for error is quite small
  • ...and you won't be killing them before they finish the rage animation
• The AK-12 has a 45-round mag compared to SCAR's 30 rounds and they have very similar reload times, especially w/ reload cancelling, putting total overall weapon uptime in favor of the AK-12

As for the 401, well...the 401 shares mostly identical breakpoints with headshots except for Scrakes and Gorefiends, yet has double the magazine size at a whopping 60 bullets per mag. and a much higher ammo reserve. Math is for nerds, so let's say that adds up to a lot more dead trash in total.
The Scrake thing isn't nothing but I should note that it takes about half a mag to kill a Scrake with the 401, and the takedowns are in fact pretty safe because of how much stumble/flinch the 401 inflicts. It's not a first-choice response but it's still there.
The Gorefiend bit is IMO the bigger point in the SCAR's favor because the game absolutely loves spamming those tanky assholes from the very outset of the game on higher difficulties, and requiring three headshots with the 401 means that Gorefiends will be blocking a lot more before you can kill them with the 401 when compared to the SCAR (which only needs two headshots). Thing is, the AK-12 also only needs two headshots for Gorefiends.

So the main question to ask yourself when considering the T5 SCAR vs. other options is: "do I need the 1SBS on Clots enough to spend $3000 and not take the FAL?"
I can safely say in the time I've been playing this game even since the upgrade system debuted that I have never once died and went "man, if only I'd had the T5 SCAR, I could've bodyshotted my way out of this pool of Clots and then I wouldn't be in this mess." But there have been a number of times where I didn't have the FAL and died to one Fleshpound too many.

But IMHO, there's no such thing as "overkill." Not for a Commando at least.

Diminishing returns are absolutely a thing, however, and that's where the aforementioned hair-splitting about efficiency comes into play.

Again: the SCAR is not bad. Just not the ultimate meta choice. The base game doesn't kill you just for picking it, but other guns will do a better job as you improve at the game. Which mostly entails headshots.

And keep in mind that with all of the stuff I've posted, I am not saying you are objectively a terrible person and/or holding back human progress because you do not pick the 401 + FAL or AK + FAL combo. If I know there are competent anti-HVT players on the team, I'll do AK-12 + SCAR as my loadout and it's like coming home to fresh-cooked comfort food.
Just that the SCAR starts to look worse and worse compared to other options as one improves at the game. If you ask for meta, well, you'll get the meta and an explanation of why it's the meta.

**For the record, I would contend that Commando's only legitimately terrible non-Sentinel weapons when compared to all options are the Tommy Gun, MkB, and Shredder. Maybe the M16 but I actually do enjoy using that from time to time.

 

[Foxhound3857]

The AK is a blacklisted weapon for me. I always considered it a very inefficient and awkward weapon without the option for single fire. If given the choice I'd take even the Bullpup over the AK.

The main thing I'm trying to get comfortable with right now is extension chaining to maximize ZED time. SCAR lets me do that easily, practically guaranteeing a kill on my next target. 401 I can still do it but I have to be more precise or start prefiring early to kill something via Machine Gunner before ZED time ends, if say my only available target for an extension is a Husk or Siren. Sometimes I'll switch to the FAL just for that, as it guarantees extensions even better than the SCAR, but I try not to burn FAL ammo unless nearing the end of a wave. I try to reserve it specifically for Scrakes and Fleshpounds.

But I was playing a CD HoE+ server the other night, and I'm starting to see why the FAL is so revered. Even without headshots it was doing noticeably more damage to FP's than either my SCAR or 401. That has to be that Rifle type damage coming into play. But if my team starts struggling to hold a position or suffers early deaths then I'll usually drop it in favor of the 501. I'll always prioritize self survival over big-zed takedowns if the team starts falling apart.

As far as Support goes, I'm starting to see the value in Tactical Reload, particularly for the DBS/Doomstick, and now I see why Concussion Rounds are so good with Doomstick, they can stumble even a raging FP. But I'm still torn between Tight Choke and Armor-Piercing. In the old days I went Tight Choke 100% of the time, but since AP now adds 10% perk damage, it's a much tougher argument, and, quite frankly, I favor the damage boost over the tighter spread, especially if I'm running Doomstick/S12 or Doom/HZ12. S12 already does fine at medium range without Tight Choke, especially in hallways, and HZ12 I like having a looser choke as a trash cleaner. And the Doomstick seems to perform the same with both Tight Choke or 10% more damage. I've noticed no loss in consistency with big-zed takedowns. So the damage boost wins for me in the end.

 

[baztheallmighty]

The primary purpose of the commando is to extend zed time. In my experience in a normal game an average zed time of 9-10 seconds is ok. 11-13 is a very good commando. In a Controlled difficulty or HOE++ game 12 seconds is a ok commando. 14 seconds is a good commando.
The secondary purpose is trash removal.
The third is to support big zed take downs.

The reason to use the AK is not because of damage but because burst fire guaranties to kill a trash zed with 3 bullets on a body shot and not kill other trash zeds behind it. Makes extending easier and less likely to kill two zeds and lose 3 seconds of zed time.

 

[Foxhound3857]

Just curious for OnionBubs where his opinion on AP vs TC for 15 Support stands. When AP was simply more penetration, Tight Choke was a no-brainer, but now that it also confers a damage bonus, is there an argument for it, or is TC still far superior? Is the damage bonus enough to make AP reliable with big-Zed takedowns?