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Vehicle Armor-Penetration and whatnot.

mrsirr

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 12, 2013
4,077
0
0
Over here, no not there, here.
Can anyone comprehend the code for the armor and such on the vehicles?
Some things like the hitzones and their health are fairly self explanatory, but the armor bits just confuse me.
 

mrsirr

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 12, 2013
4,077
0
0
Over here, no not there, here.
Well like
the PTRS thingy says 36 RHA test hardness 300
then the PZIII has like frontglacis thickness 26 hardness 347
How exactly does one figure that with the different hardness and such?
I mean, I feel like I could guess that it would penetrate, but I could be horribly wrong.
And I notice you can kill tanks without penetrating the armor, hows that work?
I am no coding genius, or even someone who is familiar with code at all really :/
Shoot I might be looking at the exact wrong thing for all I know.
 
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Cwivey

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 14, 2011
2,963
118
0
In the hills! (of England)
You can shoot through open hatches at internal components to kill a tank (drivers hatch is my favorite for this, or a grenade in the commanders hatch (TRY IT)).

Edite: All you have to know about the armour is, the AT rifles wont do well against it bar specific spots (due to their high chance of shattering on impact, high hardness armour will cause this). And the flatter the angle of impact the better. :D
 
Last edited:

mrsirr

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 12, 2013
4,077
0
0
Over here, no not there, here.
You can shoot through open hatches at internal components to kill a tank (drivers hatch is my favorite for this, or a grenade in the commanders hatch (TRY IT)).

Edite: All you have to know about the armour is, the AT rifles wont do well against it bar specific spots (due to their high chance of shattering on impact, high hardness armour will cause this). And the flatter the angle of impact the better. :D
But I wanna know how it works <:0
 

mrsirr

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 12, 2013
4,077
0
0
Over here, no not there, here.
Okay nevermind I'm incompetant. I can't figure out the math. I don't suppose you have any formulas for the calculations? Trying to figure out exactly what to do from the description and worked formulas is difficult. Particularly puzzling is finding the resistance of the plate. How exactly are the angle and slope coefficient used in the calculation?
 

Cwivey

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 14, 2011
2,963
118
0
In the hills! (of England)
Angle increases the effective plate thickness, and introduces the chance to rebound below aprox 70 degrees (90 being a dead straight hit in the plate), therefore working out the chance to penetrate.

Slope coefficient is (possibly >.>) the rate at which an angled shot increases the likelihood of a deflection.

Check out the ROVehicleTreaded class, starting at line 2347 and down for everything else I don't have the brain power to put into a useful forum post. :p
 

[TW]Wilsonam

VP, Tripwire Int.
Oct 17, 2005
4,061
2,618
0
61
Roswell, GA
www.tripwireinteractive.com
Well, here's an overview of the calcs involved for you (I'm sure I did this some time back, but can't find it):

Detect which actual plate is hit by the round, velocity, angle, grab relevant numbers for that projectile and plate...

1. Calc T/d
2. Calculate the slope coefficient, based off the T/d ratio and the slope effect of the ogive of the projectile.
3. Adjust the basic armor resistance for high hardness armor plate (where high hardness is applicable).
4. Adjust resistance again based off the difference between the actual plate hardness and the plate the rounds were originally tested against.
5. Check if it is possible the round shatters, based off T/d compared against the theoretical shatter limit of the projectile.
6. Work out the base penetration for the projectile, based off the velocity at impact, round hardness and the theoretical max it can penetrate.
7. Use the angle of incidence between the plate and the round to work out a final armor plate resistance (no it is NOT a simple Cosine rule).
8. Calc penetration/resistance ratio.
9. If the round shattered, adjust that ratio, based on the effectiveness of a shattered round (lightweight rounds that shatter, usually not terribly effective)
10. Now it gets probabilistic: look for the ends of the bell curve - high end, armor is over-matched and penetrates; low end and the armor is under-matched and the projectile fails. Anywhere in between it is a probability, not a certainty. Work out where on the bell curve the attempt is, generate random number and compare...
11. Final check is for a round that fails to penetrate, but doesn't shatter - may still generate spalling off the inside face of the armor plate.
 

mrsirr

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 12, 2013
4,077
0
0
Over here, no not there, here.
But what do these mean mathmatically? <:0
1. Calc T/d
Simple enough
2. Calculate the slope coefficient, based off the T/d ratio and the slope effect of the ogive of the projectile.
Oh. um. . . Huh
3. Adjust the basic armor resistance for high hardness armor plate (where high hardness is applicable).
How do?
4. Adjust resistance again based off the difference between the actual plate hardness and the plate the rounds were originally tested against.
How exactly? It couldn't possibly be as simple as a penetration to hardness ratio.
5. Check if it is possible the round shatters, based off T/d compared against the theoretical shatter limit of the projectile.
Okay that's easy
6. Work out the base penetration for the projectile, based off the velocity at impact, round hardness and the theoretical max it can penetrate.
Buh like, how do I do that? Formulas? How do I use these values to figure this?
7. Use the angle of incidence between the plate and the round to work out a final armor plate resistance (no it is NOT a simple Cosine rule).
Aww D:
8. Calc penetration/resistance ratio.
This would probably be easy if I knew how to find either of these values :/
This part I get

Come on my man. If you've got some huge formulas layin around let me have it with both barrels, huge formulas are Terra Firma for me.
 

Frostedfire

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2010
1,055
153
0
oz
I've been looking at this myself, I'm just wondering about the shatter mechanics:

Code:
// Use the non-weakened PRRatio for shatter calcs, as we don't want more rounds to shatter the more damaged an armor plate gets
if( bMayShatter && NonWeakenedPRRatio > ShellProjectile.ShatterNumber && !ShellProjectile.bProjectileIsHEAT )
{
	bShattered = true;
	FinalPRRatio = PRRatio * ShellProjectile.ShatteredPenEffectiveness;// PR_Final
}
If I'm using the PTRS with these stats:

Code:
Caliber=14.5
ActualRHA=36
TestPlateHardness=300
SlopeEffect=0.47989
ShatterNumber=1.1
ShatterTd=1.0
ShatteredPenEffectiveness=0.3
against the sides of the t-70:
Code:
...,PlateThickness=15,OverallHardness=450,bHighHardness=true)
Td is based on the raw thickness of the armour vs the shell calibre, so it already passes the ShatterTd value and makes the round prone to shattering. The NonWeakenedPRRatio (assuming I shoot it point-blank at 90 degrees) is probably going to be between 2 and 3 (edit: did some quick mental math, it's like 1.67 or something). The shatter calculation then compares this would-be easy penetration to the ShatterNumber, which then qualifies the round for shattering and multiplies its penetration ratio by 0.3. This would then reduce penetration ability to under 0.89 - creating an immediate undermatch.
Obviously this only kicks in if PRRatio is > 1.1, so I can shoot the sides of a panzer or t-34, but there seems to be a point now where I get penalised for taking a safer shot, which would lead to weird penetration arcs with big dead zones in the middle where the extra penetration isn't enough to overcome the shatter penalty... :confused:
 

nymets1104

Active member
Dec 18, 2012
2,433
24
38
USA
Well, here's an overview of the calcs involved for you (I'm sure I did this some time back, but can't find it):

Detect which actual plate is hit by the round, velocity, angle, grab relevant numbers for that projectile and plate...

1. Calc T/d
2. Calculate the slope coefficient, based off the T/d ratio and the slope effect of the ogive of the projectile.
3. Adjust the basic armor resistance for high hardness armor plate (where high hardness is applicable).
4. Adjust resistance again based off the difference between the actual plate hardness and the plate the rounds were originally tested against.
5. Check if it is possible the round shatters, based off T/d compared against the theoretical shatter limit of the projectile.
6. Work out the base penetration for the projectile, based off the velocity at impact, round hardness and the theoretical max it can penetrate.
7. Use the angle of incidence between the plate and the round to work out a final armor plate resistance (no it is NOT a simple Cosine rule).
8. Calc penetration/resistance ratio.
9. If the round shattered, adjust that ratio, based on the effectiveness of a shattered round (lightweight rounds that shatter, usually not terribly effective)
10. Now it gets probabilistic: look for the ends of the bell curve - high end, armor is over-matched and penetrates; low end and the armor is under-matched and the projectile fails. Anywhere in between it is a probability, not a certainty. Work out where on the bell curve the attempt is, generate random number and compare...
11. Final check is for a round that fails to penetrate, but doesn't shatter - may still generate spalling off the inside face of the armor plate.
So would the Float value provided in the kismet on a Take Damage node assigned to a tank be the final value from these calculations? Or is this completely different?