Uniform/kit Inaccuracy

[ThatOneWarNerd]

Maybe some of what I'll write about here has been addressed already, and I'm sorry if that's the case...but I've noticed a few things that I feel should be addressed in order to maintain that "authenticity" so often espoused by the developers of the Red Orchestra/Rising Storm series, and adored by it's fans.

I understand that this game is in the beta stage of development, that's why I want to bring these things to light now, while they can still be fixed, these are 'minor' issues on the grand scale, but I think that these details are important to make note of, lest there be a more "Call of Duty" esque approach to accuracy of things like this.


First and foremost: The Stetson Hat (Cavalry Hat) should 100% NOT be available to the USMC faction, the Stetson is uniquely a piece of United States Army tradition, and is hugely important to those authorized to wear it. You would never see a Marine wearing one of these hats, nor would they even be allowed to by their own leaders. Allowing this hat to be worn by the USMC faction is hugely disrespectful to the US Army's Cavalry men and women, and also a disservice to the Marine Corps, as it represents them wrongly.


Secondly: The generic "cap" that's been made available to both US factions, should only be available to the USMC faction, as it appears to be a USMC style pointed cap, this is a traditional piece of Marine Corps garb, and would not be worn by the US Army, brief research will show that US Army patrol caps do have a noticeably different shape.


Finally: There ought to be tucked and untucked versions of the PAVN uniforms, and both Vietnamese factions should have chest rigs as part of their kit, as such were utilized as standard gear by the PAVN, and the NLF often received surplus gear from them.


The attention to detail and historical accuracy of prior titles were a huge draw for many players, and I think it's one huge aspect that sets this series apart from it's more casual counterparts, it would be a shame to see this series forget those things.

EDIT: As a minor note, why are the pants on the US "rolled" look also rolled? They should still be "bloused" above the boots as they are on the "long" look, if you want the rugged/run down look, well that's what the shirtless options and torn options are for, right? US soldiers wouldn't roll their pants like that under normal circumstances, we take pride in our appearance.

Thanks to anyone who took the time to read this, and for the Devteam, I don't mean to come across as too harsh or nitpicky or anything like that, you guys are doing a hell of a job with this game, I just thought these things needed pointing out is all.

Keep up the great work, y'all!

 

[supercereal4]

to add onto that- US helmets for the Army should have green helmet bands Right now they all have black inner tubes like the USMC. They were never issued helmet bands. That is why you see pictures of Marines with the black inner tube band around their helmets in lieu of proper bands. Or, they simply wore the helmet without the band. Also since 30 round M16 magazines have been removed, the US character models should have the long 30 round mag pouch replaced with the shorter 20 round one. Also the USMC should get OD uniforms thrown into the mix- The ERDL was only issued late war, and they were still authorized to mix and match OD and camo pants and tunics. The Hue city map looks silly with all that camo. To my knowlege, you won't find any pictures of the Marines in Hue wearing it.

 

[ThatOneWarNerd]

I decided to provide some sources per my remarks about PAVN gear and kit:

As you can see, the current default model/skin of the PAVN soldier in RS2VN is rather lacking, and I hope for authenticity sake that it's only a placeholder.

 

[JokersWarPig]

I made a similar post about this before we knew character customization was a thing. I'm a big stickler for historical accuracy when it comes to Vietnam, and I do think what's in game does look great, but a little tweaking couldn't hurt.
I've noticed your kit appearance is actually based on the class you choose. Riflemen have bandoleers of M16 ammo, NVA/VC riflemen have chicom chest rigs etc, its pretty accurate for each class, I would say that the machine gunners could use some tweaking. The American machine gunner should 2 - 4 belts of ammunition draped on his chest.
I do agree that the american pants should be bloused, not rolled. A lot of troops tied off the bottom of their pants after blousing them to keep insects like leeches out.

I don't think there needs to be any drastic changes, just minor tweaks. I can't link pictures currently (I'm at work) but I can later on in the day
Some tweaks I think the US could use are as follows
US Army/USMC
-Green helmet band for the army, the marines used the black inner tube band because they weren't issued the green elastic band.
-Correct era web equipment. The current models in game are incorrect for the 60's. They should be M1956 pouches, or the M1967 gear (still not 100% perfect but it did exist). The current web gear looks like the 80's/90's pouches.
-Flak Vests - The current vest in game is the M69 vest, it's perfect for the US Army. The USMC on the other hand used the M1955 vest
-Uniforms - The US Army's default uniform is perfect (except for the rolled pants). I'd like it if as you progressed in rank you could choose a dirtier uniform. I would suggest the Tiger Stripe uniform as a level 100 unlock, but the non special forces branches of the US Army wore OD's through out the entire war.
The marines on the other hand I think should start with OD's and flak vest by default. In the beginning of the war the marines didn't have to wear the flak vest, but as it progressed it became mandatory. The ERDL uniforms were adopted for regular infantry units in the later half of the war, I'll need to check the reference but I believe they were adopted for regular infantry in 1969.
-Correct ruck sacks - I don't see this one happening, but the correct rucksacks would be nice. The US Army used the light weight rucksack with the frame for most of the war, the one in the current game started being used in 1969/70, and even then most grunts still had the lightweight ruck. The USMC used an OD harversack, but seeing them with ARVN rucks wasn't uncommon, even more common later in the war from what I've read.

NVA/VC
NVA Uniform - The khaki is accurate for the war, but the OD version of it also existed before being issued on a large scale in 1969. I would suggest that the camo uniform (I've never read about the NVA wearing camo uniforms, even SOG accounts I've read never mention it). I think it'd be better to remove the camoflauge or make it a final unlock, and have the OD uniform take it's place as a mid-tier unlock.
For the VC I think the uniforms are spot on, although I've read the scarf was actually a reward of some kind, but I'll need to check the reference on that. If the scarf was added as an unlock I think we'd be fine. I would like a brown/black or brown/khaki uniform for the VC though. The black uniform was the main force uniform, the other colors were more local fighters.

Parachute material cape/poncho - I think this would be a good addition for the VC. I can link a picture for reference later, but they basically made helmet covers and camo capes out of US parachute material.
"camouflaged" NVA rucksacks - much like the camo helmet and the Japanese hero skin in RS1 I think this should be a high level unlock. The rucksack would basically be covered in leaves/vegetation much like Japanese hero skins would have been.

 

[ThatOneWarNerd]

I made a similar post about this before we knew character customization was a thing. I'm a big stickler for historical accuracy when it comes to Vietnam, and I do think what's in game does look great, but a little tweaking couldn't hurt.
I've noticed your kit appearance is actually based on the class you choose. Riflemen have bandoleers of M16 ammo, NVA/VC riflemen have chicom chest rigs etc, its pretty accurate for each class, I would say that the machine gunners could use some tweaking. The American machine gunner should 2 - 4 belts of ammunition draped on his chest.
I do agree that the american pants should be bloused, not rolled. A lot of troops tied off the bottom of their pants after blousing them to keep insects like leeches out.

Oh man, I feel pretty dumb for not noticing that chest rigs and stuff change based on class...XD

As for the rest of your post, I like your ideas, and I'm glad I'm not the only one who cares about this stuff!

 

[JokersWarPig]

When I had first seen videos of game play I thought the same thing you did, but after playing for the first time over the weekend I noticed after a few games they do change slightly depending on class.
I think accuracy in the gear is important when you do a historical game, and a lot of times Vietnam games get close, but drop the ball on smaller details for some reason.
RO2/RS were really accurate, I think it's only fair we get the same attention to detail for RS2

 

[Bluehawk]

I'm going to bump a half-month old thread rather than make a new one for a small suggestion:

For the level 99 unlock in the USMC character set, replace the cavalry Stetson with the Smokey Bear (campaign cover). This would have a similar shape, be equally iconic, be more accurate, and be unique to the Corps. I think it would both improve the game's image and give the jarheads something to strive for