Undodgeable fleshpounds are not fun.
- Thread starter Vintage
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in kf1 you could run away and weld a door behind you and if the fp attacked the door it would stop the rage. i want that mechanic back. it wont make a difference when you re camping with a team but if 4 or 5 ppl wipe you still have a chance because you can somewhat kite fps...
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Really hate it when Fleshpounds or Crawlers just jump through the air and magically gravitate towards me. It's dumb as hell and makes no sense.
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It's not that zeds should be easy. They just shouldn't cheat the law of physics, because it feels artificial, unfair and stupid. When I make a crazy maneuver to dodge incoming attack, FP or SC should just miss, not turn 270 degrees in mid-air and home on my *** like a nimble mosquito or hit me in a physically impossible way, like around the corner of a wall. It's not like that would solve my problems with the zed anyway, it's still raged and goes after me.
It currently looks like railgun will be new M99, given the power level of tier 2 crossbow, so SCs and FPs may become an endangered species, rarely even seen by other perks up closeAnd that would render the whole discussion moot anyway.
Ive seen this happen to other players but Im hardly ever in a position vs the fp for it to happen to me. Maybe this is an engine bug/issue!?
Yeah I fear you are right. Not my ideal design choice but if thats what the devs think the playerbase wants... ^^ Or they could just make FP attacks deadlier. So if the sharpie misses...
Considering that doors can be eliminated its not such a bad request. Ive used doors to slow down raging FPs to buy me or a teammate those extra few recharging seconds for the syringe/medguns! ^^
I havent seen it. Like I said a few sentences back maybe its an issue with the engine!? I have seen FPs jump towards a player who is too slow or doesnt jump out the way of an FPs final killing-leap. Maybe you guys mean this?
Just note though that I kinda think that TW want you to make a well-timed bash to "block" that final attack, if you have the nerve and timing to do so. Most of the time I dont!
Alternatively now that the auto/perma-rage has gone you can if you have enough armor/health take the hit for a beleaguered teammate, thus saving their skin and giving everyone time to heal up. But who does that in a pub. game!?
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I'm not talking about taking them down. I'm talking about interrupting them while they're raged, which is far more interesting, difficult and team work intensive in KF2 than KF1. Of course KF1 fps and scrakes are easier to take down. They were cannon fodder with the propper perk and able to be killed instantly, but if raged, then someone is basically dead. It's the all or nothing design that I hated about KF1.From what I remember KF1 FPs were easier to take down because the demos weapons were OP or if you have a good sharpshooter (or 2). Heck even the zerk could 2 shot kill an FP with the buzzsaw!
And I always thought that both FPs & SCs had more predictable movement patterns.
Also the med didnt need the cheesy homing ability... it just tanked the FP while sat in a heal nade and everyone would unload their weapons!
Also, by medic and zerker cheesing, I meant that they were so fast that the fps couldn't catch up to them if the player kited properly.
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yes sure there are ways of killing FPs living to tell the tale, but those are some boring tales. Oh yea I shot him 100 times, and then the other perks shot him another 100 times, half the team died in the process, but hey he went down right? It was sooooo much fuuuuuun.
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Oh, I think I understand this thread a little better. Being able to sidestep ZED attacks would definitely be fun but I assume this would reintroduce circling. We all remember that don't we? They fixed it on the Scrake by essentially giving it those 180 degree homing attacks mentioned. Introducing more methods of disrupting the FP rage via knockdowns and stumbles I think is the best we could hope for.
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since the patch i have found if you jump for FPs first hit he launches you quite far, you never get hit by the following combo.
I have not tried with the knife out blocking yet, you cant sprint and block and it may have something to do with the sprint momentum. in any case, a single hit from an FP is easily healed through without block or even armor.
I have not tried with the knife out blocking yet, you cant sprint and block and it may have something to do with the sprint momentum. in any case, a single hit from an FP is easily healed through without block or even armor.
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Yeah, but that was old tech from several years ago and was mitigated by the ability to switch to a knife and run to put some distance between yourself and the Scrake or FP.
This is 2016, this shouldn't be a thing. There should be a way to use strategy and tactics and not have to rely on specific Perks on your team to take down these mobs. As it is now, typically one guy just face-tanks the Scrake or FP while a majority of the team unloads on it.
I'm sure teams made up of Clan members all on VoIP have group tactics that make it simple to take out these zeds, but on a public server on a PUG it's not FUN killing Scrakes or FPs, it's just a chore, for the most part.
Flying Scrakes which turn in mid-air and home in on you is just plain dumb. FPs you can't escape from and you just have to sit there and soak up damage until one of you dies is frustrating and boring. There is no sense of accomplishment when it dies, it's just a gimmicky and sloppy way to try and inject some apprehension into the game.
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Guys... its do-able. Have you even checked any guides (video or otherwise) that show you how to decimate FPs/scrakes?
Alot of the time you should be able to just tell from the make-up of the team if biggie-felling is going to be a synch or not. Maybe join one of my games and ill show you how "easy" it can be whether you kite or camp!?!
All that does is helps. You still need to know what to do and your role in it.
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I know I'm in the big zeds are mostly fine camp and this was for someone else, but if you want to play then you can add me from my steam tab.
If you want
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that's cool and thanks for the offer, but I think you may be missing the point of the discussion. Some people are not worried about the difficulty of taking out Scrakes or FPs, it's not that difficult with pretty much any team regardless of Perks used, if you kite it or face-tank it and burn it down...
.. it's just not fun. Or challenging. You don't get that feeling of "YEAH!" when your team takes one out. Hell, even Patriarch or Hans fights follow the same formula of blast-blast-blast-heal for the most part.
The mechanics used by Tripwire to artificially boost the difficulty (IE: Flying zeds, insta-turns, undodgeable hits, etc) make these fights a boring chore to some people. I'm sure that there are others who think everything is fine and no changes are needed, and that's cool, everyone has their own opinion.
We are talking about the way TWI implemented a set of mechanics that seem kind of ... well, not very well thought out and it detracts a bit from the enjoyment of the game (in our opinion). Trust me, I can sit and burn down a FP with a Flamethrower or MWG all day every day while eating a snack and checking my email, no problem... or run around the map and set it on fire over and over with a Caulk / Flamer and Molotovs until it dies and the cows come home.
But it's not very fun, and there are little to no strategy or tactics involved.
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To be fair to your specific example, burning stuff isn't as fun as it could be anyway. It's a visual thing, the panic animations and such are good but fire itself feels bland to use even if it's powerful. Especially in close range, looks bland and not much feedback, it's like a porridge gun.
Excluding that example/minirant, not everyone's cup of tea but fighting them solo can be satisfying; I've been using flamethrower/crossbow combo and have had a bunch of rather fun close calls with those 2 weapons against FPs!
SCs aren't a problem to fight regardless of weapon, especially in solo.
Excluding that example/minirant, not everyone's cup of tea but fighting them solo can be satisfying; I've been using flamethrower/crossbow combo and have had a bunch of rather fun close calls with those 2 weapons against FPs!
SCs aren't a problem to fight regardless of weapon, especially in solo.
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Everyone has their own interpretation of what experiences gives seems fun or not.
Taking any zed down could be considered not fun. Aim. Click. It dies. Repeat ad nauseum. Maybe youre wanting a super-weapon to take them down in two shots (inc. with sharpie) but personally I dont consider that a fun way of taking down a fp. Or stunning it and then blowing it up with an RPG/c4 combo. I dont consider demos point-blank shooting scrakes to take them down fun either. Just gamey. But Im not calling for things to be changed because of it.
I can appreciate that ppl want different things from the game but I think the current dynamic of the FP is the threat it brings. Which is mostly down to its spawns times (in a wave), the quantity it comes in, and with what other zeds it appears.
It provides a real threat to player life-expectancy which is the whole point of the FPs... theyre supposed to be a challenge. If you dont find that fun or challenging then Im sorry but that seems to be their whole purpose. Thats just the way I see it. Are you playing on HoE? Sui even? (Just asking)
Someone once said '...things get messy when you enter combat.' And thats how it should be. The days of KF1 where the team camped and sat the whole match in one location are mostly gone.... as I hope are when SCs and FPs enter the fray holding up a placard with the words "Sharpshooter: Aim here ->", next to their heads!
Maybe if you want fun you should be playing on pub. servers with 12yo French players. Or maybe thats should just be defined as 'crazy!' ^^
EDIT: Getting back on topic... if you are (and others) are requesting an avoid fp attack feature, I would ask why cant the avoid scrake mechanism that was there a few builds back be bought back to?
And why arent you facing the fp and pressing the bash button to stop it from delivering an blow?
Moreover why are you even getting into such a position in the first place!? But thats another story!
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I think the aggro system could use some work. Zeds seem to relentlessly chase whoever shot first. Aggro switching could easily be exploited if its done wrong (e.g. players stand far apart and alternate shooting a big zed so he just keeps running back and forth between them), but I think it should be easier to change their focus than it is now. It just seems that big zeds like to keep chasing the same guy unless you body block them while shooting them.
I think aggro switching is also a factor in what makes zerk walling possible (zeds try to aggro someone behind whoever is at the choke point, and they just stand there getting blocked by the berserker, refusing to change aggro to who's blocking them). There should be some special aggro switch move where if someone is bodyblocking a large zed when they're trying to hit someone behind them, the large zed switches target to who's blocking them and hits them much harder.
I think aggro switching is also a factor in what makes zerk walling possible (zeds try to aggro someone behind whoever is at the choke point, and they just stand there getting blocked by the berserker, refusing to change aggro to who's blocking them). There should be some special aggro switch move where if someone is bodyblocking a large zed when they're trying to hit someone behind them, the large zed switches target to who's blocking them and hits them much harder.
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In order for something to be a challenge, the outcome of it has to depend on player's skill. And it currently doesn't. Fleshpound or SC rages and has a lock on you? It will hit you, no matter what evasive maneuvers you will make. It will magically stick to you, defying laws of physics, until you take damage. It's not challenge, it's artificial difficulty in the purest form. Just as there is no challenge in point-and-click instalkill weapons, that we will most likely get in the form of railgun.
The knockback thing in practice nerfed bash, along with some takedowns and means to at least delay the damage till your team can help you. It seems that in KF2 there's almost no middle ground between unfair mechanics and trivial hard counters, so we're not getting anything to actually make the things challenging for us.
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I don't see the problem. It was the same in KF1 and now there are way more different incaps as well as parry to help defend yourself. On top, half the perks get an easily exploitable movement speed bonus! So actually it wasn't a big issue before and it is even less now.
There is one thing, however, this still ruins microwave gun's alt fire since you cannot interrupt attacks or even prevent damage with the knockback. Zeds will just instantly snap back to your location and deal full damage every time.
There is one thing, however, this still ruins microwave gun's alt fire since you cannot interrupt attacks or even prevent damage with the knockback. Zeds will just instantly snap back to your location and deal full damage every time.
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Let me give you a practical example. Taking down fleshpounds with the gunslinger used to be a thrilling challenge. You fired one set of dualies to rage him and when he got at you, you bashed, what when correctly timed unraged him and you could finish him off with the second set of dualies. Verry little room for errors. This was a high risk = high reward combo. This was what brought my hope up that TWI is turning KF2 not totally into a casual spam fest in the end. Now with the recent update that bash unrage is practically disabled. What we got instead is the xbow that makes it ridiculously easy to take out not just scrakes but also fleshpounds.
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