• Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/

This last 5 zeds insant and permanent bullcrap seriously needs to go

Jump to latest Follow Reply
Sort by date Sort by votes
T

TrueLolzor

Grizzled Veteran
Dec 18, 2011
319
108
#1
I am literally at the mercy of random when I play solo. I just lost a game because, guess what? Last 5 zeds were 2 flesh pounds and 3 scrakes. There is nothing on earth I could do about them all being raged at the same time, fleshpounds not getting de-raged whatsoever. Made as much distance as I could and took down the first FP only to get caught up and smashed by the second one just because he never left the rage mode.

It's simply stupid thing to implement for a lot of reasons.

Why not just implement inside-zed timer which triggers him like that if he lived for too long? That would prevent extensive kiting.

:IS2:
 
#2
TrueLolzor said:
I am literally at the mercy of random when I play solo. I just lost a game because, guess what? Last 5 zeds were 2 flesh pounds and 3 scrakes. There is nothing on earth I could do about them all being raged at the same time, fleshpounds not getting de-raged whatsoever. Made as much distance as I could and took down the first FP only to get caught up and smashed by the second one just because he never left the rage mode.

It's simply stupid thing to implement for a lot of reasons.

Why not just implement inside-zed timer which triggers him like that if he lived for too long? That would prevent extensive kiting.

:IS2:
Click to expand...


Its not just solo. It should never be the case that you have fp in the last 10. If you do then youre asking for trouble unless they are heavily damaged.

Its not stupid. It actually fulfills a purpose. Just circumvent it by making sure you dont kill trash once the counter reaches 10 and they never perma-rage. Problem solved.
 
Upvote 0
#3
Nice one. Instead of going on with a game like I usually do, I am forced to keep the gnawing at my face trash alive just in case the last 5 zeds appear to be heavy hitters. This things make zero freaking sense. Zero. It makes no sense exactly because it's a set number, which can be nothing if the last five zeds happen to be clots and cysts, and completely devastates you if they happen to be some FPs.
 
Upvote 0
#4
TrueLolzor said:
Why not just implement inside-zed timer which triggers him like that if he lived for too long? That would prevent extensive kiting.
Click to expand...


I've been advocating this for scrakes whenever one of these threads pop up. This whole problem originated because of the "scrake conga lines." This is a scrake-exclusive problem that was "solved" with a blanket solution. FPs should never rage indefinitely, ever.
 
Upvote 0
#5
Its not stupid. It actually fulfills a purpose. Just circumvent it by making sure you dont kill trash once the counter reaches 10 and they never perma-rage. Problem solved.
Click to expand...

It is immensely stupid. Given that it's supposed to just prevent zeds from getting stuck, this is actually probably the worst way to achieve it imaginable. Simple check that could reallocate zeds that haven't changed position in x seconds if they are not seen by any player would suffice.
 
Upvote 0
#6
JoelFig said:
I've been advocating this for scrakes whenever one of these threads pop up. This whole problem originated because of the "scrake conga lines." This is a scrake-exclusive problem that was "solved" with a blanket solution. FPs should never rage indefinitely, ever.
Click to expand...



it wasnt just because people were complaininging about the scrake mambo line at the end of waves.

the perma rage replaced teleportation(which everyone complaineded about) in the end only.

if i remember correctly everyone hated the teleporting(especially at the end of a wave). they disabled it and then everyone would just scrounge for ammo/weapons for 20min after each wave. the rage is to combat boring AF gameplay and annoying AF gameplay. also cheap AF gameplay (scrake mambo line)


it wasnt just a blanket solution, and i much prefer it to turning a corner and bam, fleshpound to your face.


this community man, complaineses about stuff, tripwire changes(sometimes to exactly what the community said) then they all just complain about it again.

now @ OP. i suggest dealing with it using tactics, or come up with a better alternative. perhaps think outside the box. whatever, im just an oldmidget, not a stop sign.....or an oldmidget pointing a gun at your face.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
#7
I find perma rage to be very stupid. I rather just have the idea where if a zed is stuck, they are relocated (as Vealk commented) to a different spawn. Perma raged Fleshpounds with grinding arms blocking the body is very annoying.

I can go with the idea that if a zed isnt re-spawned to a different zed point, after a certain amount of time (2 minutes?) the zed itself keels over.
Yes, I'm mentioning it, but Left 4 Dead had that system. Special zed didnt show up because it was stuck? It would die.
 
Upvote 0
#8
oldmidget said:
it wasnt just a blanket solution, and i much prefer it to turning a corner and bam, fleshpound to your face.
Click to expand...

I beg to differ. An un-raged FP in my face isn't much compared to a perma-raged one coming after me without end. Hits from raged FPs do more damage, plus they'll never stop hitting you, and you can't escape. Un-raged FPs that surprise you from around a corner can be easily bashed into stumble, allowing you to quickly sprint by them without taking a hit.


My opinion about perma-rage on last five enemies is that it's fine for enemies that aren't scrakes or FPs
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
#10
TrueLolzor said:
Nice one. Instead of going on with a game like I usually do, I am forced to keep the gnawing at my face trash alive just in case the last 5 zeds appear to be heavy hitters. This things make zero freaking sense. Zero. It makes no sense exactly because it's a set number, which can be nothing if the last five zeds happen to be clots and cysts, and completely devastates you if they happen to be some FPs.
Click to expand...

This is my single biggest issue with the end-of-wave frustration mechanic. Going all Benny Hill with the zed hordes just because the FP/SC have yet to be spawned and killed feels very counter-intuitive.

I get why this mechanic was implemented, but if it stays it need some changes for the big guys:

  • Given current Fleshpound rage mechanics, I don't understand why perma-rage exists. If he still has to be more of a threat with 5 or fewer zeds left, then cut his normal enrage timer by half (from 10-14sec to 5-7sec), but have him de-rage normally.
  • Have Scrakes flip out one at a time instead of all at once and maybe add a limit to how many can be auto-raged at once (note that you could still manually enrage them all if you really wanted to). Perhaps the game could even prevent any Scrakes from auto-raging when Fleshpounds are still running around.

Both of these would bump up the pressure at the end of the wave while still keeping things manageable for decent players.
 
Upvote 0
#11
I've seen many a game where having <6 players has resulted in some seriously dubious scrake/fleshpound announcement roars with less than 10 zeds remaining.

If you've thrown a grenade, set fire to the ground, or are mid-swing with a Pulverizer or just happened to fire your RPG as the announcement happens, how are you supposed to do anything about perma-rage if the fleshpound spawns with 8 remaining zeds?

I've been part of teams that can handle fleshpounds just fine on all difficulties - but to slip in their spawns as close as possible to the last 5 zeds is a cheap and low-quality way to implement a game mechanic.
 
Upvote 0
#12
I think we can agree that they chose a pretty ***-backwards "solution" to the end-of-wave "problems". It doesn't remove any of the tedium, it just shifts it over to a non-fun version of kiting where you can't kill anything until you take down the bigs.

How's this for an idea: If you don't want players scrambling around for ammo and loot, LET THEM HAVE AMMO. Let them afford it. Let tier 3 weapons be worthwhile so they don't have to scrimp and save for T4.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
#13
In the end what it does is FORCES you to kite until you find the zeds you don't wanna to end up final 5 ones, which is the opposite of the intended purpose.

And to reinforce the point, this system goes against the common sense. It completely alters your perception of the situation based solely on a digit in the corner of the screen. It's a bad thing. It should go.

:IS2:
 
Upvote 0
#14
TrueLolzor said:
It completely alters your perception of the situation based solely on a digit in the corner of the screen.
Click to expand...

Or...here's a revolutionary idea. Remove the zed counter. Why should players be aware of how many zeds still remain? This would totally alter the feel of the game, not knowing how many zeds still remain besides the updates from the the talking baguette.

Seriously, there's a bad case of the gitguds going around this place. The endwave rage was meant to solve the scrake issue. Only problem is, they implemented it alongside two other things:

-Gunslinger, a perk that can dispatch scrakes within seconds and with minimal practice
-new fleshpound rage animation (I hate it so much)

So the scrake parade received a hard counter in the form of gunslinger, while TWI unwisely gave the fleshpound a rage animation that makes him nigh impossible to hit. I'm still all for the endwave rage, with only one alteration: when the fleshpound is one of these five, he will only use his old rage animation. He remains a huge threat, but is much more manageable. As it is now, if you aren't demo or zerk (or support for you pros), you might as well alt+f4 when that bugger comes charging.
 
Upvote 0
#15
Gallic_Taffer said:
Or...here's a revolutionary idea. Remove the zed counter. Why should players be aware of how many zeds still remain? This would totally alter the feel of the game, not knowing how many zeds still remain besides the updates from the the talking baguette.

Seriously, there's a bad case of the gitguds going around this place. The endwave rage was meant to solve the scrake issue. Only problem is, they implemented it alongside two other things:

-Gunslinger, a perk that can dispatch scrakes within seconds and with minimal practice
-new fleshpound rage animation (I hate it so much)

So the scrake parade received a hard counter in the form of gunslinger, while TWI unwisely gave the fleshpound a rage animation that makes him nigh impossible to hit. I'm still all for the endwave rage, with only one alteration: when the fleshpound is one of these five, he will only use his old rage animation. He remains a huge threat, but is much more manageable. As it is now, if you aren't demo or zerk (or support for you pros), you might as well alt+f4 when that bugger comes charging.
Click to expand...

...........No. Keep the zed counter. It is now needed for that stupid rage inducer. I also enjoy knowing how many zed are left when my ammo is starting to dry out.

Keep the perma rage off the Fleshpound. That gives a breath of relief.

If there are five scrakes, only two rage. Be nice if attacks weren't magnetized. I do miss the ol charging bull tactic. Juke them when they swipe. If you start doing that old strat where you spun them around, screwing with their targeting, an extra attack comes into effect: The spinning chainsaw top. Take the animations from the Patriarch. Save the TWI staff some time.

Another thing. Get rid of unblock-able attacks.
 
Upvote 0
#17
I'm happy to keep perma-rage, they only need to fix a couple of things:

  • rework the pathing on Outpost so that zeds aren't glitching out on the landing behind the lockers room, when players camp the trucks area - nobody wants three fleshpounds stacked up during the wave to suddenly surprise you with 4 zeds left
  • disallow scrakes and fleshpounds from spawning when the zed counter is close to 5 - there have been very many instances I've seen where these enemies are spawning with <10 zeds left, and it's an almost immediate guarantee of perma-rage
Most maps don't suffer from perma-rage issues like Outpost does - if they fixed that pathing issue, it'd be substantially less of a problem. I've outlined the issue in the bug report forum, and linked additional posts back to the one I made.


Haven't heard anything about it since, though.
 
Upvote 0
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back
Jump to latest Follow Reply
Jump to latest Follow Reply
Community News
Forums
Merch
Menu