The Weakest Perk

[Aleflippy]

Literally every class not named, maybe Sharphshooter, excels at clearing trash. That's like saying SWAT can throw money at you when you're low and that's an important job... no it's not. You're just trying to make the loser in the classroom look needed.Lastly, he also has some insane CC capabilities, among the best in the game.

... If you knew how to read, you would have noticed that the end of the paragraph mentions that many classes (and ESPECIALLY the ones I talked about) are good at everything. This includes trash-cleaning. And that's an issue considering the Demo used to be quite pitiful against trash zeds (unless aiming for big chunks of them at range). Meanwhile, the firebug used to be more in line with the SWAT, with a twist : pretty bad against tougher zeds, but quite at ease keeping smaller ones at bay. These days, he can do that and much more.

And if you can't use SWAT to stagger zeds, the fault ain't mine. Suppression rounds, but also Cripple and Battering Ram are all competent skills increasing its crowd control. And the quite pricey HRG Bastion increases its tankiness even further. Haven't dealt with the HRG Stunner nearly enough to claim its a worthy investment though, I'll give you that.

And bear in mind that I'm not saying that the SWAT is slept on, or that it's secretly a powerhouse. It definitely isn't. But my point is precisely that : the SWAT ain't that weak, it's most of the other perks that are way too strong by comparison. Why would you consider the SWAT when it's (mostly) a specialist, when pretty much everybody else can deal with whatever the game throws at them. Without spending nearly as much on ammo either.

 

[OnionBubs]

my point is precisely that : the SWAT ain't that weak, it's most of the other perks that are way too strong by comparison.

Thread over. We can close it here. (I mean, it's three years old at this point so it probably be closed anyway just from outdating alone, but still.)

When SWAT requires so much effort to break even compared to half of the classes without weapon combos like HRG Nailgun/G36C, yet on the other hand Firebug kinda requires shooting at the floor into a chokepoint or just throwing a molotov at your feet if you get surrounded? Game's been balanced badly.

 

[Bender the Offender]

And if you can't use SWAT to stagger zeds, the fault ain't mine. Suppression rounds, but also Cripple and Battering Ram are all competent skills increasing its crowd control. And the quite pricey HRG Bastion increases its tankiness even further. Haven't dealt with the HRG Stunner nearly enough to claim its a worthy investment though, I'll give you that.

And bear in mind that I'm not saying that the SWAT is slept on, or that it's secretly a powerhouse. It definitely isn't. But my point is precisely that : the SWAT ain't that weak, it's most of the other perks that are way too strong by comparison. Why would you consider the SWAT when it's (mostly) a specialist, when pretty much everybody else can deal with whatever the game throws at them. Without spending nearly as much on ammo either.

Remove Assault Armor and Rapid Assault for those two skills? You love things to be even MORE dog$hit than they already are? Being tanky and the machining feature are the SWAT's only saving grace. The Bastion is one of the few large machine guns actually done right in this game. Guess that's one of the few other things the SWAT has going for it.

 

[Bender the Offender]

Thread over. We can close it here. (I mean, it's three years old at this point so it probably be closed anyway just from outdating alone, but still.)

When SWAT requires so much effort to break even compared to half of the classes without weapon combos like HRG Nailgun/G36C, yet on the other hand Firebug kinda requires shooting at the floor into a chokepoint or just throwing a molotov at your feet if you get surrounded? Game's been balanced badly.

Hell pick the Heatwave skill and pair it with both the Ground Fire and High Capacity Fuel Tank skills and have fun bullying large zeds with your starting weapon.

 

[OnionBubs]

Hell pick the Heatwave skill and pair it with both the Ground Fire and High Capacity Fuel Tank skills and have fun bullying large zeds with your starting weapon.

The TTK on that means that you (or your teammates) are likely to get stuck by an angry large Zed for trying it, but the fact that you can stub their toe with your starter weapon like that is quite silly. That's not the only thing that makes Firebug such a monster, though...

Right now, the Dragonsbreath is a Tier 2 that's more effective and easier to use than the vast majority of Tier 2s in the game, ever since it got buffed to guarantee ground flame spawns with all pellets instead of before when it had a very-low-percent chance. You kinda volley a shell or two and everything lower than a Gorefiend gets reduced to atoms; any trash that runs into the flames is just an added bonus. Pyromaniac just makes it so much sillier.

The HRG Dragonblaze stacks ground fire so fast it actually made Firebug a legitimate boss killer on its own, and it lets you shotgun jump against bosses getting in your grill just to rub salt in the wound.
The Helios does need to earn headshots but it's still an anti-HVT weapon that fits into almost any Firebug loadout and pairs nicely with all of Firebug's anti-trash weapons.
The Thermite Bore can turn some maps into idle games while you watch Netflix.

When the worst weapon in its arsenal is arguably the Mac-10, that's saying a lot.

why is this class so ridiculous omg

 

[Bender the Offender]

The TTK on that means that you (or your teammates) are likely to get stuck by an angry large Zed for trying it, but the fact that you can stub their toe with your starter weapon like that is quite silly. That's not the only thing that makes Firebug such a monster, though...

Right now, the Dragonsbreath is a Tier 2 that's more effective and easier to use than the vast majority of Tier 2s in the game, ever since it got buffed to guarantee ground flame spawns with all pellets instead of before when it had a very-low-percent chance. You kinda volley a shell or two and everything lower than a Gorefiend gets reduced to atoms; any trash that runs into the flames is just an added bonus. Pyromaniac just makes it so much sillier.

The HRG Dragonblaze stacks ground fire so fast it actually made Firebug a legitimate boss killer on its own, and it lets you shotgun jump against bosses getting in your grill just to rub salt in the wound.
The Helios does need to earn headshots but it's still an anti-HVT weapon that fits into almost any Firebug loadout and pairs nicely with all of Firebug's anti-trash weapons.
The Thermite Bore can turn some maps into idle games while you watch Netflix.

When the worst weapon in its arsenal is arguably the Mac-10, that's saying a lot.

why is this class so ridiculous omg

You forgot the husk cannon which I think is the best weapon of the Firebug's. You take a demo weapon, increase it's magazine to 60 and increase it's flame capabilities.

Hilariously there are people online who claims Firebug is a bad D tier class.

 

[mataktea]

I think we should keep the basic idea of having a marksman that is nimble and more in the firefight (the gunslinger) and another that is more static but packing a stronger punch (the sharpie). I just believe that we shouldn't go to either extremes however.

 

[OnionBubs]

I think we should keep the basic idea of having a marksman that is nimble and more in the firefight (the gunslinger) and another that is more static but packing a stronger punch (the sharpie).

Excuse me, sir/madam/(enby identifier of choice).

Do you have a moment to discuss our lord and savior, the M14 Sharpshooter with Marksman? It's as in-between Gunslinger and RailSharp as you can get in this game.

(It's also way more rewarding to learn than either of those but that's a personal thing. It's not as blatantly easy as RailSharp, it doesn't teach you terrible habits such as sprinting away from every encounter like the Gunslinger does, and it has an insane but rewarding skill ceiling that just yields high damage in general.)

 

[Aleflippy]

Excuse me, sir/madam/(enby identifier of choice).

Do you have a moment to discuss our lord and savior, the M14 Sharpshooter with Marksman? It's as in-between Gunslinger and RailSharp as you can get in this game.

(It's also way more rewarding to learn than either of those but that's a personal thing. It's not as blatantly easy as RailSharp, it doesn't teach you terrible habits such as sprinting away from every encounter like the Gunslinger does, and it has an insane but rewarding skill ceiling that just yields high damage in general.)

If only I could get rid of that atrocious scope

 

[razorfancy]

3 years later and the SWAT and Survivalist are still the worst classes in the game. SWAT in general is just a weaksauce class that's only compensated by being tanky and maybe able to run out of situations at level 25. While Survivalist isn't the "jack of all trades, master of none" class. It's more the "master of none, but has some body armour and reload speed" class. Which the more I think about it, Survivalist and SWAT are actually kind of similar. Where Survivalist can run too if it's holding a meelee weapon.

I dont get the hate for SWAT the perk is so good, in fact it is my favorite perk, it has speed + awesome grenade(Flashbang) + Both Zed time options are good + HRG Nailgun is one of the best weapons in the game it melts Scrakes and Fleshpounds very easily(even on multiplayer in the 2 Higher difficulties) + you have a lot of great options to use alongside HRG Nailgun like for example: MP5(good option for early rounds), HRG Bastion, Kriss SMG or the G36(its very nice weapon but its a DLC Weapon).

I personally like to use MP5 or sometimes Mac 10 in the early rounds then I buy HRG Nailgun and then eventually I usually sell MP5 to buy Kriss SMG.

 

[OnionBubs]

I dont get the hate for SWAT

The perk has its problems, only some of which are kind of its fault:

• SMG damage typing is only super-effective against clots and is heavily resisted by many other Zeds.
• The early-game shots-to-kill on mediums kinda sucks vs. other perks, which is kind of a bad thing when your specialty is supposed to be killing trash. As an example, Commandos can one-tap Gorefasts and 3-tap Gorefiends with the starter rifle whereas SWATs are lucky to kill Gorefasts with the MP7 without triggering a block.
• Most of the anti-headshot measures implemented post-full-release screwed SWAT more than any other perks (Rioter helmets, EDARs, QPs to a lesser degree, blocking in its entirety) because SWAT almost always needs more headshots vs. those perks for the same Zeds. You know what's not fun or engaging? Having to shoot Rioters 18 times in the leg with the MP7.
• It is effectively a "second Commando" for when Commando is already in play since doubling up on Commando is bad:
  • Commando has superior breakpoints on almost all similarly-tiered meta weapons
  • Keeping with the above, Commando has generally higher damage output outside of Zed-Time
  • Commando brings unique team utility in the form of Zed-Time extensions/resets that SWAT simply doesn't have
  • Commando gets recoil control and generally less bloom when firing, which makes it better at long range when combined with better breakpoints
• Firebug slots into a similar role but is so much easier to play for the reward that it's not even funny. Why click heads when click feet/chokepoints will do?
• Outside of the G36C it is arguably the worst perk for boss waves due to the nature of boss fights promoting high spike damage output above all other things
• Battering Ram is only useful in already chaotic games and is broadly inferior to "put unlimited bullets downrange for up to 21 seconds" in almost all situations
• The past few weapons it has received have been blatant band-aid unlocks:
  • HRG Nailgun is an anti-Fleshpound weapon that happens to be spammable enough to kill other things very well
  • G36C is an anti-Rioter, anti-EDAR, and anti-boss weapon that is arguably a much-easier-to-use Kriss sidegrade, which effectively makes it an upgrade for most players
  • HRG Bastion is a Commando weapon that gives you free damage mitigation from inconveniently preraged Fleshpounds
• Most of SWAT's "QoL" changes--and by that I mean flat buffs--in the past few years are blatant apologia in exchange for the devs refusing to buff its effective damage:
  • Free runspeed
  • A perk that gives you armor back each round
  • Econ boosts

That said, it's my 3rd favorite perk after Commando and M14 Sharpshooter. It's perfectly fine and viable because the game is not hard enough that picking SWAT is a throw by any stretch of the imagination. All things considered, I would much rather have a good SWAT on my teams who understands headshots and when to use flashbangs as opposed to Firebug #8092 shooting the Thermite Snore into a chokepoint for an hour.

 

[Foxhound3857]

I think Gunslinger and Sharpshooter are different enough that both are, for the most part, equal. Gunslinger is only redundant if you're playing it purely for headshots, which seems unnecessary considering the deep ammo reserves, movement speed, and the Bone Breaker and Knock Em Down perks. Sharp is my stand-still headhunter who earns his wages on decaps, meanwhile Gunslinger is my run-and-gun limbshooter focused on body shots rather than headshots (RRRRR), and it works well.

IMHO, SWAT is the weakest perk at the moment considering how resistant most ZEDs are to SMG damage. The G36C resolves this critical weakness somewhat, but the weapon still doesn't fare very well against Scrakes or Fleshpounds because of the relatively low output compared to the HRG Nailgun or Kriss. Survivalist was once the weakest perk but the option of self healing with Medic Training, healing nades, or taking the left side perk that increases reload speed with the HM501, makes a Survivalist virtually unkillable unless they get cornered. Commando is way overpowered at present because of the HM501 as well, endless self heals on demand and their perks even boost the poison damage. If any gun needs a nerf, it's that one.