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RO2 The two fundamental flaws with tank vs tank combat

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ArchoN2010

ArchoN2010

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 1, 2011
61
39
#1
#1: The time it takes for a crew member to switch position is LONGER than the time it takes to load a new shell

What does this mean? This means that you can almost always get a guarantee of killing the enemy tank if you take out his only means of fighting back, that is his gunner. As soon as the gunner goes down in your tank you are done and might as well just scuttle your tank unless the enemy tank is a tool. Yes you can attempt to reverse behind cover, but so what? You pop your tank out of cover and you're going to be in the same scenario, because he's going to waiting for you with his sights trained on where your turret is going to be.

My suggestion: Speed up crew transitions between parts of the tank, to the point where they are slightly faster than the time it takes to load a shell, that way it comes down to the player and his skill to get a shot in before the enemy tank has reloaded.

-

#2: You can not switch to another position in a tank whilst a crew member is moving

Okay look TW, your animations are great and I too would be very proud of them, but for the sake of gameplay and enjoyment of the game, do we REALLY have to watch that whole animation before we can do anything? Say my driver gets killed and I want to put my machine gun operator in the drivers seat to reverse us WHILST returning fire with the tanks main gun, well, tough luck, you can't. As soon as you move the machine gunner to the drivers seat you are FORCED in to watching a 3-4 second animation, thus preventing you from using the main gun to return fire.

My suggestion: It's simple really, while a crew member is moving to another part of the tank, let the player assume control of another part of the tank rather than having us watch a 5 second animation that usually gets you killed because you can't defend yourself in the process.
 
#6
ArchoN2010 said:
My suggestion: It's simple really, while a crew member is moving to another part of the tank, let the player assume control of another part of the tank rather than having us watch a 5 second animation that usually gets you killed because you can't defend yourself in the process.
Click to expand...

Archon,
You want to delete the "5 second animation" because your crew is killed one by one ?

mungokang said:
I hate mouse aim.
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Mungokang,
Why ? can you explain ?
Tank turret works with mouse. Tank move works with direction keyboard button. We can move the tank and use the gun in same time. If you want to change the way the tank shoot, you need to change the way the tank move.

I think : You change a problem by another problem.

Can you explain why you hate mouse aim of tank ?
Maybe you will hate mouse move of tank ?
 
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#8
Personally I would prefer WASD to aim the main gun, but I can see why TWI chose the current method to allow you to give movement commands to the driver. I would have thought by now that someone would have come up with a mutator to allow using WASD or the cursors to aim the main gun :D

Otherwise I think TWI did a fantastic job on them (however...)

My big problem with tanks, and I didn't know this when the game was released, was that they take soooooo long to make a new one that we haven't gotten any new vehicles yet. In hindsight, I now see that was probably a mistake.
 
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#9
=GG= Mr Moe said:
Personally I would prefer WASD to aim the main gun, but I can see why TWI chose the current method to allow you to give movement commands to the driver. I would have thought by now that someone would have come up with a mutator to allow using WASD or the cursors to aim the main gun :D

Otherwise I think TWI did a fantastic job on them (however...)

My big problem with tanks, and I didn't know this when the game was released, was that they take soooooo long to make a new one that we haven't gotten any new vehicles yet. In hindsight, I now see that was probably a mistake.
Click to expand...

Yes as you said :Tripwire do it in the goal to give panzercommander ability to drive and shoot in same time.

Ok, Moe, let's admit you have a aim tank working with the cursors buttons. Now the question become : how will move your tank ?
You just changed a problem by another problem.
 
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#10
ro2player said:
Yes as you said :Tripwire do it in the goal to give panzercommander ability to drive and shoot in same time.

Ok, Moe, let's admit you have a aim tank working with the cursors buttons. Now the question become : how will move your tank ?
You just changed a problem by another problem.
Click to expand...

You have WASD, the number pad, and the cursor buttons... :p
 
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#11
Do I want to delete the animation? No, of course not. As I clearly stated I do not want to have to WATCH the animation before I can do anything else in the tank. If I move from machine gunner to the drivers seat I have to WATCH that animation before I can change back to the gunners seat. It's absurd.
 
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#12
When I first got into the tanks in RO2, i was impressed by the detailed movement inside the tank. I also liked being able to control movment while being out the open hatch looking around....i didnt mind mouse aiming..

However, now 2 years down the road, my opinion is the detailed interior doesnt add much to the game. It appears to keep more tanks from being made is all.

I have begun going back to play DH and still marvel at how good the tank game still is. I just wish now, they had grafted the DH tank game into RO2. I think we would have more vehicles and a whole lot less frustration on the players part. I commend TWI for the attempt, however that being said, my appreciation is waning due to lack of vehicles.
 
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#14
Mike_Nomad said:
"The two fundamental flaws with tank vs tank combat"


There's ONLY TWO TANKS! 'Nuff Said!
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^This!


As far as the OP's issues, I prefer it this way. For #1, IRL if your tank got penetrated, you would NOT want to go back out that direction. A tank isn't a soldier/marine, and this isn't World of Tanks. You shouldn't expect to be able to pop in and out of cover like an infantryman.

Sure it's annoying, but it makes you play more realistically (or at least it should). Be glad the bug where you would instantly respawn in the gunner position is gone, as you could expect to be killed instantly when the next round comes in, without the chance to back into cover.

For #2, team tanking would actually solve this. My suggestion on TT, in case you get an unresponsive tank crewman as the TL, is the ability to change your mind and lock the tank for the next respawn.
 
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#15
=GG= Mr Moe said:
You have WASD, the number pad, and the cursor buttons... :p
Click to expand...

Cursors buttons working with shoot of tank, and number pad or WASD buttons working with tank moving, it's look like BF 1942 ? Mouse become no-active...Because you use Cursors buttons + number pad or WASD buttons. :( It's not cool, Moe.

ArchoN2010 said:
Do I want to delete the animation? No, of course not. As I clearly stated I do not want to have to WATCH the animation before I can do anything else in the tank. If I move from machine gunner to the drivers seat I have to WATCH that animation before I can change back to the gunners seat. It's absurd.
Click to expand...

Archon,
You want to act during animation ? You don't want ot be inactive. you want ot be active. Reduce time of animation seem for me not a good soultion as Jpz38 Hetzer showed it. (i am agree with Jpz38 Hetzer)

Jpz38 Hetzer said:
But thoose are both realistic handi caps.
I personally think tanks are fine with the exception of a few bugs, however, louder sounds for the tanks would be good.
Click to expand...
 
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#18
the team tanking should be mandatory in the first place. make commander in charge of who is in which tank position, but don't allow him to completely control tank full of bots with little drawbacks. if he doesn't fill a slot with player, don't fill it at all, not even with bot.

this isn't battlefield and there's little reason to have a game changing instrument (the tank) in the hands of just one person only. especially when current system PROMOTES locking your tank to yourself, because bots under your full control are a lot better alternative than possibility of having someone without a clue be your driver or gunner.

i don't think a game that is supposed to promote teamplay should for some reason completely ignore the need of cooperation between tank crew, and actually promote complete opposite.
 
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#19
ro2player said:
Ok. But system of panzer in RO 2 make a panzerleader really control all the panzer (in move and in fire). Is not it good ?

or maybe :
shoot with buttons, and move panzer with mouse ? (here i will join you Moe)
Click to expand...

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, just that given the choice, a lot of players would prefer the ROOST style of aiming.

That said, the biggest problem with tanks in the game is there are only two of them. I think the game has lost a lot of players who love tanking but only have the two choices, and thus less people making tank maps or larger combined arms maps. You just know they are still playing DH and waiting for Festung Europe to come out and you know the Dev team there is looking at what not to do with their tanks.
 
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