The tank combat is outrageous.

[Cleft_Asunder]

I don't see enough people commenting on this, even though it's critical. The tank armor system is just rediculous when it comes to angles and penetration. The most obvious sign of it not functioning correctly is that tanks that face their right or left side towards an enemy can achieve an invulnerable state in ANY tank such as the T-34/76, even though the armor on the sides of a tank is always lower than in the front. Interestingly, when you position your sides towards the enemy, your turret ALSO adopts the invulnerability of the side hull, making the whole tank impossible to penetrate --everything just bounces off. The tank treads as well are invulnerable! I hit a t34/76 5 times in this position using a PZ-IV (128 mm of penetration at 100m) and it drove off.

Stating the obvious: Idealy, and in real life, if your enemy is at 12 your hull would face 1 or 11 o'clock. You can't do any better than this without exposing your vulnerable tracks. Not so in RO, where you don't ever have to worry about exposing your tracks because they Rarely, and I say RARELY get hit even if you aim right at them. A tanks side is one of the most vulnerable areas, yet in RO it is the strongest. I see this "tactic" used all the time in Orel where people don't even bother pointing their front hull towards the enemy anymore, they just face them with their sides. I hope everyone starts using this tactic so we can all be clear on how rediculous the combat has gotten. I will go so far as to say that the mod tank combat system worked far more realistically.

What is going on with this system? And why is everyone acting like there's nothing wrong with it? If anything, there's everything wrong with it.

 

[Oi!Oi!Oi!]

Yes, track are not vulnerable enough, but what do you mean by tanks attacking with their sides and being invulnerable? A 90 degree shot at the side of any tanks is what I'm always wishing for as a gunner. That's how you kill the Tiger easily.

 

[Nimsky]

Here we go again...

I don't know what game you're playing, but in my version of RO a hit in the side is almost guaranteed a penetrating shot.

Tanks are invulnerable when faced to the side? That's something new, congrats on finding this outrageous bug.

 

[Letum]

I Have never had any problem with the armor system apart from the tracks never blowing off.

I allways angle my tank at ~45* to the enemy and around 60% of the shells bounce off - its the way it should be and it encourages players to think insted of just pointing and clicking

I allmost allways get penetration at ~90* or ~270* (i.e. the sides!)

 

[Cleft_Asunder]

Here we go again...

I don't know what game you're playing, but in my version of RO a hit in the side is almost guaranteed a penetrating shot.

Tanks are invulnerable when faced to the side? That's something new, congrats on finding this outrageous bug.

I'm just making this up for the attention. Really, I am. Listen, I have some beach-side property in the Gobi desert you might be interested in.

 

[Cleft_Asunder]

I Have never had any problem with the armor system apart from the tracks never blowing off.

I allways angle my tank at ~45* to the enemy and around 60% of the shells bounce off - its the way it should be and it encourages players to think insted of just pointing and clicking

I allmost allways get penetration at ~90* or ~270* (i.e. the sides!)

Thank you for confirming my point. If the combat in RO was 100% realistic --hypothetically speaking, I know this isn't possible in any game-- then you would NOT want to face 45 degrees towards your enemy because that would expose the vulnerable tracks. No tanker has ever been taught to face their tank 45 degrees towards an enemy, so where did you learn this "tactic?" I'll tell you where you learned it: you learned it in the semi-realistic (at best) tank combat system of RO, where facing an enemy at 45 degrees is a GREAT strategy, because you don't have to worry about immobilization. This tactic is almost as great as facing the enemy with your side (slightly crooked I believe).

 

[D3terioNation]

So the tactic of angling your tank should not be beneficial in any way? Is that what you're saying?

 

[Nimsky]

Give us a video showing a 90 degree angle shot bounce off then.

Listen, I have a care cup you might be interested in. Unfortunately, it's empty.

 

[Cleft_Asunder]

So the tactic of angling your tank should not be beneficial in any way? Is that what you're saying?

Are you interested in the beach-side property too?

 

[Cleft_Asunder]

Give us a video showing a 90 degree angle shot bounce off then.

Listen, I have a care cup you might be interested in. Unfortunately, it's empty.

Alright, I'll try to record a video as soon as possible. I haven't been in one single tank battle where this hasn't happened, so it shouldn't be too difficult. I would need to upload it somewhere though, and I don't know where.

 

[Quietus]

I too agree that the tracks aren't vulnerable enough (or the parts that affect the tracks operation such as suspension & wheels). Many times I'll hit the tracks frontally dead on (which should if not sever the tracks completely at least severely mangle them) to no effect. Also you'd think any AP round rakeing the sides at a shallow angle should be tearing out suspension parts left and right and holeing multiple wheels at a time rendering it immobile. As far as the armor penetration values I'm no expert (not that I'm an expert on tracks either)...so others can debate about that.

 

[Sichartshofen]

Aim for the drivers hatch when you're up against an angled Russian tank.

 

[Plaid13]

i agree 100% its retarded that people angle the tanks its just not real. you would want the front of your tank facing the enemy all the time because the tracks are one of the weakest point of the tank. you would never see them do that sort of thing in real life. they would always want the front of the tank with the thickest armor facing front. you expose your tracks to shots in real life those tracks get hit and your as good as dead because you cant move anymore so your pinned down in the tank in combat. The tank system does need to be fixed. i think most of the problems would be fixed by a few simple fixes. making tracks alot easier to damage would be a huge step to reality. I also think they need to tweak the angles that are needed for shells to bounce off. panzerfausts for example should Never bounce off.

 

[krylosz]

tankers in ww2 were taught to angle the tank at approxiamtely 35 degrees and not facing straight forward!

 

[Phoenix-D]

Why shouldn't 'fausts bounce? They're coming in at a fairly low speed, after all- and if that HEAT warhead doesn't detonate at the right spot, it's not going to have the same effect.

 

[Cleft_Asunder]

tankers in ww2 were taught to angle the tank at approxiamtely 35 degrees and not facing straight forward!

Source? 35 degrees would expose too much of the side.

 

[Sichartshofen]

tankers in ww2 were taught to angle the tank at approxiamtely 35 degrees and not facing straight forward!

Tankers in WWII were taught to face the thickest part of their armor (the front!) towards the enemy. Unless you have sources to support this 35 degree claim, the Tiger and Panther fibel are the only sources that mention angling.

 

[Sichartshofen]

For Cleft: http://s48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/axthelm/?action=view&current=angledtanks.flv

Simple video showing you how to destroy angled tanks. Aim for the drivers hatch. At close range adjust for the distance between the optics and the cannon, basically aim to the left of the drivers hatch.

 

[Mobius One]

i agree 100% its retarded that people angle the tanks its just not real. you would want the front of your tank facing the enemy all the time because the tracks are one of the weakest point of the tank.

You obviously never had bad experiences from facing your frontal armor at the enemy gun's 12, have you?

FYI, front-facing your armor is suicide in Red Orchestra and in real life. Go look up some details from Germand and Russian tank manuals that actually tell you that angling your tank is the best way to survive. If you don't do that, you deserve to have your frontal T34/85 armor penetrated by the Tiger's 88 cannon.

 

[Grobut]

Panzerfausts can bounce, the warhead has to be triggered for anything to happen, if it comes in at an angle where its trigger is not set off, nothing will happen, it should bounce or just plop off, thease are not cinetic weapons.

Now im no expert on the things, so i'll leave it to more competent people to argue wether or not it happens too often in RO or if its good, but saying it should not happen is just not true.


Also, getting your info from field manuals is not a good way of going about things, thease things where not updated, and not very detailed (thats what training was for, and real world experiance), if tactics changed at any point after it was printed, the field manual will be telling you lies.

And quite often, the doctrine and reality of the war did not mix very well, soldiers would adjust to their situation or die as the enemy brought in new weapons or tactics that undermined them.

They do not paint a very accurate picture of real war.