The Clot Grabbing Auto-Aim Megathread II: The Grabbening

[ChairmanMurder[Forge]]

Can we all remember those first early hours on KF1? How many times did we get stuck in a group of clots, unable to move and then panicked. Those clots killed people, these clots don't. Their big brother 'annoying animation' gets people killed. Its not even a bloody monster!

At the same time, how many times have you been the sharpshooter lining up a headshot on the scrake, or the demolitions ready to blow up the FP? And you do it anyway, even when a clot or two is giving you tickles on your back?

The new clot does not allow you to do that.

The fact that some people are typing things to the effect of "it killed me and my team" is proof that it's working.

I just want the clot to remain relevant. If Tripwire changed the autolock into severe shaking--to the point you literally could not aim until you punted the clot off--I'd give that a shot.

 

[Horror_Duck]

Me to. I agree the clot needs to be more relevant. But I don't think the auto-aim is the way to do it. Its just far too invasive.

Other zeds have an effect on the screen, but that's far different to actually taking over your screen. If nothing else, it needs changing from the immersion standpoint.

EDIT: Also, as far as "it killed me and my team" being proof of the clots new danger. Again, its not the clot that's killed the team, or the player. Its the camera move that killed them. That my biggest beef with this.

If they made the clot deal out far more damage, that would make the actual clot character more promenant.

 

[Deathgrip22]

On the Topic...

Guys, I think it's important to consider gamers who want to play the game online with other with a gamepad.

Now I know this is going to sound like blasphemy, but playing online with the gamepad is still really fun. The autoaim basicly works like COD where ADSing "snaps" you onto the enemy you want to shoot. However, unlike COD, it's fresh fun and new, where COD has done the same dumbass soldiers who leave themselves partially exposed behind cover for the last 11 years.

I think that the "clot grabbing auto aim" is something that should only occur when using a gamepad, like how ADS with gamepad "snaps" to the target only on gamepad.

 

[ChairmanMurder[Forge]]

EDIT: Also, as far as "it killed me and my team" being proof of the clots new danger. Again, its not the clot that's killed the team, or the player. Its the camera move that killed them. That my biggest beef with this.

At this point though, can you really separate the two? As noted many, many times, only the clot has this mechanic. A clot grabbing you enables this screen flip, nothing else.

If the clot hadn't gotten a hold of you, you wouldn't have have gotten your screen messed with, and you wouldn't have died.

If they made the clot deal out far more damage, that would make the actual clot character more promenant.

I'm firmly against that. The more major zeds already deal enough damage, especially at higher difficulties. The clot needs to have some kind of situationally dangerous control ability, not more deeps.

I'd rather not barely survive a fleshpound only for a lolslap from a clot kill me when it otherwise shouldn't have. (Granted, I probably would deserve the death either way).

 

[ButtProblems.]

It doesn't feel unnatural to me at all. If anything gets adjusted it would probably be the speed of the camera snap or the instant alignment on the head. The camera zoom might disorient people (the bad vomit-y way). It was horribly frustrating being grabbed by a teleporting clot in KF1 at the worst moment and needing to do the 360 mouse spin to get a fraction of the result the new system has.

 

[GMAK]

I'd make it optional but I'd make everything optional. A game made by me would have a lot of options. Also, it take time to make options and I don't think it's worth the time.

Also, I don't really dislike this feature. It sound cool and fun to me.

 

[Horror_Duck]

Chairman, I'm not actually suggesting making them deal more damage, was just the first thing that came to mind.

Anyway, EA is made for these kinds of debates. We'll just see what happens. Its just good to see that everybody has an opinion formed regardless of which side its on.

 

[Horror_Duck]

Also, buttproblems. I don't think you realised but you actually just agreed with one of my points.

The new auto aim system is actually a better way of killing the clot, it makes it far easier for the player... Taking away the challenge. The KF1 clots used to get at least a few hits in before you turned and killed it, even if you were focusing on killing it. The new clots don't even get a look in, they're usually dead before you even know what's going on.

It takes the challenge away from killing the clot (making it less relevent as a character in my view), and by default causes you to take your eye off of your team mates and the good of the team....in a team game. It doesn't do anything the the 'pro auto turners' are saying it does.

I'm just struggling to see how nobody on the 'pro' side of the argument sees that. Or maybe I'm just blinded by the own ignorance.. Doubt it tho.

 

[-main-]

The new auto aim system is actually a better way of killing the clot, it makes it far easier for the player... Taking away the challenge. The KF1 clots used to get at least a few hits in before you turned and killed it, even if you were focusing on killing it. The new clots don't even get a look in, they're usually dead before you even know what's going on.

It takes the challenge away from killing the clot (making it less relevent as a character in my view), and by default causes you to take your eye off of your team mates and the good of the team....in a team game. It doesn't do anything the the 'pro auto turners' are saying it does.

Couldnt agree more. Well I could but I doubt it would change something. Your point about team game and team watching your six is very important. We are forgetting what KF1 was all about. One of the challenges was also for a team to gel so to speak.

 

[Horror_Duck]

I'm so happy with KF2, even in its current state. Its everything I wanted and more..this is the only thing I have a problem with (other than tiny niggles that are obviously going to be patched out).

Its like a fiding a tiny little bit of sh*t at the bottom of an amazing chocolate milkshake.

 

[Paronine]

(other than tiny niggles that are obviously going to be patched out).

Hey, that's raci- oh. Wait. Misread that.

 

[Horror_Duck]

Yeah, I thought that when I typed it.

 

[General Armchair]

Imo, it is irrelevant that this system makes it easier to kill the clot. The point is that the clot just made it harder for you to focus fire and kill whatever deadlier zed previously had captured enough of you attention that you didn't notice a clot sneaking up behind you. That's what makes these new clots deadlier in a battle than the old ones

 

[Horror_Duck]

Again..no. The clots aren't deadly. If they were deadly they'd be the ones killing you. Its the camera move animation that kills you. No other creature in the game does that.

The old system worked much better. Those clots were actually deadly.

 

[Paronine]

Again..no. The clots aren't deadly. If they were deadly they'd be the ones killing you. Its the camera move animation that kills you. No other creature in the game does that.

But the camera move animation is what the Clot does. That's its primary attack. You talk about it like it's a separate thing, but it's the Clot's move, the same way bile is the Bloat's attack and screams are the Siren's.

Don't want to get burned by bile? Don't get too close to the Bloat.
Don't want to be disoriented & killed by screams? Don't get too close to the Siren.
Don't want to be flipped around suddenly? Don't get too close to the Clot.

 

[heavycommando3]

But the camera move animation is what the Clot does. That's its primary attack. You talk about it like it's a separate thing, but it's the Clot's move, the same way bile is the Bloat's attack and screams are the Siren's.

Don't want to get burned by bile? Don't get too close to the Bloat.
Don't want to be disoriented & killed by screams? Don't get too close to the Siren.
Don't want to be flipped around suddenly? Don't get too close to the Clot.

I agree. I dont like how people ignore the clot and then make a big deal of being grabbed. If that had been a bloat youd be nearly blind! That is so much worse imo

 

[Nenga]

Again..no. The clots aren't deadly. If they were deadly they'd be the ones killing you. Its the camera move animation that kills you. No other creature in the game does that.

The old system worked much better. Those clots were actually deadly.

Clots were a joke that you ignored if it wasn't convient to shoot them in KF1. TWI wanted to be them something you didnt ignore or you got punished for it, and i'd say they succeeded.

Or maybe this is because they still couldn't solve the problem of being able to get away from the clot while jumping, as even after they tried to patch it out in KF1 it still worked.

 

[Horror_Duck]

No, it would be the same if when the bloat puked on you the camera flew around and looked at the bloat. It would be the same if when the siren screamed a small un cancelable animation played.

The difference is that when a bloat pukes on you, you can still fight using your playing skill but whilst hindered. When the siren screams you are still in control of your character but you are taking massive damage either way. Its up to you the character to continue fighting or run away.

The auto turn is nothing like the bloat or siren attack...its nothing like any of the other zeds attacks. Comparing them is pointless.

The camera turn is not the clots 'move'. Its a camera movement forced upon you by the game. The clots 'move' is grabbing you and biting you. Let's just get that sorted right now.

 

[Ceno]

But the camera move animation is what the Clot does. That's its primary attack.

Actually, since Clots only have a 33%-ish chance to try to grab you, I don't think it's its primary attack. So, basically, you have a 33%-ish chance with Clots to get wrecked, 35%-ish with Slashers, and somewhere a lot higher with Cysts (they grab you more often, but have a lengthy stumble animation if they miss the grab to counterbalance it).

I agree. I dont like how people ignore the clot and then make a big deal of being grabbed. If that had been a bloat youd be nearly blind! That is so much worse imo

How is being forced to look one way over another any better than being blinded? Bloat Bile is at least easy to make out important targets through (i.e., Scrakes, FPs) or to identify an escape route.

The auto turn is nothing like the bloat or siren attack...its nothing like any of the other zeds attacks. Comparing them is pointless.

The camera turn is not the clots 'move'. Its a camera movement forced upon you by the game. The clots 'move' is grabbing you and biting you. Let's just get that sorted right now.

^That.

 

[Veerdin]

-snip-

Don't want to be flipped around suddenly? Don't get too close to the Clot.

Once again, this isn't so much a fact of "pay attention to your surroundings." as it is a fact of "a clot might literally teleport behind you the moment you turn your back."

I think, right now, a few small issues present in the game are all combining into one big, ugly, hybrid issue. And like any good video game boss, we should focus on getting the parts down one at at time rather than focusing on the whole mess all at once.

Forgive my slightly tortured analogy there.