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Which, again, I think is the entire point of the forced aiming. Ignore clots at your own peril.
The fact that you died--and trust me, so have I--is proof that it's working.
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The Clot Grabbing Auto-Aim Megathread II: The Grabbening
- Thread starter Veerdin
- Start date
The fact that you died--and trust me, so have I--is proof that it's working.
I almost went through the effort to laugh at this.
On Topic:
Most people seem to agree that it's good, that's nice.
It can't be optional, nice to see people are understanding this as well, good.
Yes, teleporting zeds are indeed a problem, so are transforming ones. (Just witnessed how a Husk decided to stop breathing and a Gorefast appeared 5m off its once a Husk of a body.)
Things are looking quite good atm. Keep it up.
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One thing I find that's interesting about this debate?
Half the playerbase seems to think that the the auto-aim is a benefit. The other half sees it as a detriment.
On one hand, it makes killing clots that grab you a lot easier than it was in the first game. On the other, it can throw your aim off and disorient you.
Hence, again, why I think it should be optional. Some people clearly like this feature. Other's clearly do not. Why not let us choose if we want it or not? Clots will always be threatening in large numbers if they get close to you, because being held down while a bigger zed rampages towards you will always screw you up, auto-aim or none.
I, personally, would rather choose where I aim. But I'd not want to discount those who'd like to focus on the clots instantly to get rid of them with little effort.
Half the playerbase seems to think that the the auto-aim is a benefit. The other half sees it as a detriment.
On one hand, it makes killing clots that grab you a lot easier than it was in the first game. On the other, it can throw your aim off and disorient you.
Hence, again, why I think it should be optional. Some people clearly like this feature. Other's clearly do not. Why not let us choose if we want it or not? Clots will always be threatening in large numbers if they get close to you, because being held down while a bigger zed rampages towards you will always screw you up, auto-aim or none.
I, personally, would rather choose where I aim. But I'd not want to discount those who'd like to focus on the clots instantly to get rid of them with little effort.
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I gave it a chance, and no. Just no.
The zed grabbing in the first one was enough to create dangerous situation. It just needed a few visual tweaks. Here it's only frustration. You should be allowed to make a decision, take a few hit with the risk of getting swarm/killed to heal a team mate, pop up that bloat head, throw a nade or focus on that clot and kill it. It just take away my control and i don't like it.
So remove it or tweak it:
Add a delay before the turn, like 2 or 3 sec before they can turn you. You can finish something and that clot skill will still be dangerous. No insta turn :/
The zed grabbing in the first one was enough to create dangerous situation. It just needed a few visual tweaks. Here it's only frustration. You should be allowed to make a decision, take a few hit with the risk of getting swarm/killed to heal a team mate, pop up that bloat head, throw a nade or focus on that clot and kill it. It just take away my control and i don't like it.
So remove it or tweak it:
Add a delay before the turn, like 2 or 3 sec before they can turn you. You can finish something and that clot skill will still be dangerous. No insta turn :/
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Yeah this is a wiered argument. The danger of a clot is that he pins you to the spot, giving damage.
In KF1, we knew when a clot was grabbing us...because we couldn't move. We them decided whether to deal with the clot, or deal with another situation..like a fleshpound etc. That's the option you have, You make a snap call about what is more important.
If saving your own sorry Hyde is more important...then this new 'auto fu*k up your aim bollo*ks' is great for you. If you're more interested in taking a bit of damage to keep putting damage down on the fleshpound that's about to kill a member/members of your squad, then this auto aim is stupid.
SECOND POINT, in what world would a clot be able to forcably spin you round to look right at it, and if its not the clots doing it, then do we the player have super human reflexes? Its the next worst thing to a Quick Time Event.
Having this as optional does not give one person an advantage over another, it just depends what kind of player you are.
I'm medic, I care more about saving my squad and taking bit of damage, than sorting the clot right away. STOP TAKING MY ABILITY TO MAKE MY OWN DECISIONS AWAY!
Pheww...feel better now. Enjoy arguing, I'm going to bed.
In KF1, we knew when a clot was grabbing us...because we couldn't move. We them decided whether to deal with the clot, or deal with another situation..like a fleshpound etc. That's the option you have, You make a snap call about what is more important.
If saving your own sorry Hyde is more important...then this new 'auto fu*k up your aim bollo*ks' is great for you. If you're more interested in taking a bit of damage to keep putting damage down on the fleshpound that's about to kill a member/members of your squad, then this auto aim is stupid.
SECOND POINT, in what world would a clot be able to forcably spin you round to look right at it, and if its not the clots doing it, then do we the player have super human reflexes? Its the next worst thing to a Quick Time Event.
Having this as optional does not give one person an advantage over another, it just depends what kind of player you are.
I'm medic, I care more about saving my squad and taking bit of damage, than sorting the clot right away. STOP TAKING MY ABILITY TO MAKE MY OWN DECISIONS AWAY!
Pheww...feel better now. Enjoy arguing, I'm going to bed.
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That right there is the reason you should understand it's working as intended.
He won't let you help that squad, because he'd rather that he dies to you and they die to his friends.
Just above you stated why it indeed does give an advantage over others.
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If you play Hell on Earth, you'll find the auto aim mechanic to be incredibly awful. All the zeds that grab you are fine on normal, hard, and suicidal. In HoE, they're always spawning in front of and behind you. They don't pimp walk to you like in lower difficulties, they full on sprint and leap at you, then grab you.
It is horrible.
It is horrible.
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Again, the fact that I'm seeing many variants of "my team(mate) died because the clot disrupted my aim" is evidence to me that this feature is working exactly as expected.
No longer can you ignore the clot and his feeble damage while you waste his betters. He forces you to pay attention to him, and therein is why the weakest specimen remains relevant even when you have to worry about scrakes and fleshpounds.
You ignore clots are your own peril, which is something that you could never really say in the first game.
No longer can you ignore the clot and his feeble damage while you waste his betters. He forces you to pay attention to him, and therein is why the weakest specimen remains relevant even when you have to worry about scrakes and fleshpounds.
You ignore clots are your own peril, which is something that you could never really say in the first game.
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actually it is a very reasonable thing to make it optional.
no this isn't a major gameplay mechanic, it is a majorly overlooked addition that dumbs down gameplay and doesn't fit at all into killing floor.
If were going to keep this silly camera movement, might as well throw in some key mashing to possibly escape Han's heal grip, or perhaps some timed mouse clicking when a siren screams o you can cover your ears. Why don't we give every specimen a disorienting camera movement? **** we might as well be playing the walking dead.
do you still not see how silly this is? If it was designed as a gameplay mechanic, more zeds would have something similar, there is one thing for zeds to have a unique ability, but the clot is the only zed that has this dumbed down casual shooter camera movement, which not only makes it a bigger joke, but takes away the whole point of the clot.
What really baffles me is how many people are so quick to discount any changes made that would benefit the game. Its as if people forget this is EARLY ACCESS, and that TWI intends for most of the game to remain static as is. I can't believe the amount of inexperienced players who think this makes the clot more threatening, increase trash zed spawn count or play on a harder difficulty if you want a challenge, don't try to dumb down the game in the process.
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Insinuating that your opinion is more valid - nay, the only valid one - only makes it easier for people to dismiss your argument. Honestly, I think you've got good points, but so do the people who like the current clot grab mechanic. Dismissing them as "inexperienced" and the thing they like as "dumbed down" doesn't do anything but make yourself look arrogant.
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It's literally artificial difficulty. The most common thing in the game shouldn't be able to render you useless by spamming grabs when they spawn in packs all the time in HoE.
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A clot preventing you from moving in the first place could be considered "artificial difficulty" as that's forcing your input to do something you don't want it to do(not move) and clots already deal damage to you and have collision detection.
You could even consider the dynamic lighting on a map being blown out making it harder to see "artificial difficulty."
Bottom line is you simply just have an arbitrary rule set of what you think is legitimate difficulty and what isn't.
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The players that are adamantly calling for this camera movement to be kept are inexperienced. If you feel that the lame camera movement makes the game more difficult, you are inexperienced. That is a simple fact, and if you are offended by this, then you need to grow some thicker skin because being inexperienced doesn't hold the negative connotation that so many of you are quick to assume. almost the entire old HoE community from KF1 agrees that this isn't a feature that belongs in killing floor. Keep in mind we have clocked in thousands of hours into the first title, we have been playing for years and years and care way more about the fate of this game than the majority of the player base.
That being said, its not hard to see how this is a dumbed down feature that panders to lesser experienced players because it is deemed as "cool" or "novel" without putting much more thought than that into it. It doesn't make the clot more threatening, and even if that was the case, a special camera movement that is intended to disorient the player is one of the cheapest, half-assed attempts at balancing the game. The game should be hard, but it should be challenging in a way which the player and his abilities affects the outcome, not silly "in your face" button mashing faux-events.
My opinion is one of the most valid, keep it an option for everyone, and nobody gets their panties in a bunch. Everyone who is adamantly calling for removal or retention, are being completely unreasonable, you guys sound like a bunch of conservative and liberal nutjobs who refuse to meet in the middle. I haven't heard a single good argument as to why this feature being optional would be detrimental in any way.
it doesn't increase the difficulty significantly enough to warrant the argument that it will handicap players, it is very much buggy at times, and disorienting in an annoying rather than challenging way. It is honestly an insult to any player who can remotely navigate a keyboard and mouse.
so yeah please enlighten me as to why having this optional would affect gameplay negatively. I've already explained why any "handicap" of having the auto aim on would be completely negated by competence and the fact that it literally kills clots for you, even if you aren't aiming at them. Also if you're going to present an elaborate scenario where the auto aim would come into play, at least make it a realistic example where it would significantly affect the outcome of a match in which no other mistake contributes to the endgame, so far nobody has demonstrated that.
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Do not split the game into servers with it on and off. One game to rule them all and all that jazz for a consistent game experience.
Also, Amber, my opinion is more valid than yours because I have more forum posts and have been here longer. KillingFloor 2 is a new game and can have new ideas.
Also, Amber, my opinion is more valid than yours because I have more forum posts and have been here longer. KillingFloor 2 is a new game and can have new ideas.
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The fact that we're having such long discussions about it proves it's a major mechanic.
But even if it wasn't, what's this about the "dumbs down gameplay"? Is this another "it seems like a console feature, so therefore it's dumb" argument?
Is it "dumbing down" because you autolock onto a clot's head and are thus one click away from killing it? Congratulations, you killed a clot, the easiest specimen to kill in the game. Now, while you were getting your dumbed down kill, the fleshpound that he took your attention away from wants a friendly hug.
No one's suggested that, so you're shooting at strawmen.
On top of that, both of the enemies in your example do have abilities that disrupt the player's user interface.
I frankly don't. I'm starting to believe you're against this simply because #PCmasterrace and since it resembles a console feature, you automatically write it off as bad without thinking about it's implications.
But let's ignore that for now.
The bloat, husk, bloat, siren, and Hans all have abilities that disrupt the player's user interface, impair their ability to make informed decisions, and make it harder for them to carry out whatever their original task was.
Again with the "dumbed down casual" comment. I still fail to see how it's dumbed down.
Is it because you lock onto the clot's head, enabling an easy kill? In retort, I say, congratulation, you killed the lowly clot. Now deal with your buddy who just died because your medic darts were delayed.
In fact, if the clot were sentient and could express itself, I'd bet his thoughts would be "Hah, the joke's on you. You may have shot me in the face, but now Big Brother Scrake would like to have a word with you face to face."
The whole point of the clot is to be an easy killable, ubiquitous specimen that had serious impact if you ignored it.
In the first game, it was only really a problem if everything had already gone to hell, and a clot caught you while you were retreating. In most other circumstances, you could ignore his feeble scratching while you sniped a scrake's head off or nuked a fleshpound to pieces with your M32. Your only punishment for letting a clot near you was losing a negligible amount of HP and/or armor.
But now? The clot is so much more dangerous. Forcing you to kill him (again, congratulations, you killed a clot, have another dozen) delays you that much longer in whatever your original task was. Your medic dart might be a second too late. Your grenades might have to be thrown just a few meters too close. Your pulverizer alt-fire will need to be swung again because you were disrupted midswing. The reload on your AA12 is a few seconds longer because you had to brain the clot.
What baffles me is your obssession with the dumbed down console angle. For your apparent disdain for consoles, you seem to like to mention it a lot. But I'm not here to examine your possible motives.
Several people have explained why it makes the clot more threatening, yet your only reponse is nyah nyah nyah dumbeddownconsoles nyah nyah nyah.
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Do not split the game into servers with it on and off. One game to rule them all and all that jazz for a consistent game experience.
Also, Amber, my opinion is more valid than yours because I have more forum posts and have been here longer. KillingFloor 2 is a new game and can have new ideas.
youre right, don't splut the servers, have it be an option in the game menu. There is your consistent game experience, as whether or not your squad mates have it on, you will probably never notice. If your teammate dies are you going to ask him "hey didn't you turn off that auto-aim?", no you're going to assume its because he/she either made a simple mistake, had some bad luck in positioning or spawns, or is just inexperienced.
You haven't exactly stated your opinion, so feel free to elaborate as to what exactly you stated that is more valid than what i have laid out.
Yes KF2 is a new game and new ideas are indeed allowed, but badly implemented "game mechanics" should be tossed out the window, or in this case, turned off in the game menu.
Its funny how fickle some of you guys are in your mentality; "YES KEEP THIS AUTO AIM, NO DON"T MAKE IT OPTIONAL WTF"
it seems only the people who are adamant to keep it in the game have a problem with it being optional, like how can one group be so unreasonable? I don't see anyone who prefers it to be removed arguing against it being optional, and then some are you are even voting to keep it in, yet if given the option would turn it off. i really have no idea what some of you are even arguing for or against, there are so many damn contradictions, really the easiest choice for TWI would be to make it optional so they don't have to see a million threads from people crying about it being removed or staying permanently, and there will be backlash i can guarantee that if TWI decides to move forward in such a black and white fashion.
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sigh i have continuously picked apart the poor arguments regarding the clot being more "threatening" in its current incarnation, but here we go one more time.
all of your poorly thought out examples also take into consideration that the player left a clot in close proximity to a very large zed, and their teammates simultaneously ignored it. All of the examples everyone has given stating the clot is more threatening are also prime examples of inexperience in the game. the situations in which you put yourself is what caused the clot to be more threatening, all of which would have been the same without the auto aim implement. You literally kill the clot so quickly in this game, and there is so little precision in dealing with the bigger zeds, that i would actually argue in KF1, a ninja clot was infinitely more threatening and disorienting than what it is in KF2.
All you do is spam the big zeds to kill them currently, you really think that one aa12 shot at the clot is gonna make a difference in dealing with the scrake? The current meta is focus fire on the big zeds, so if you miss one shot someone else is going to pick up that insignificant slack, if you have a competent team.
Yeah, the auto aim could potentially be more threatening if your team is running around like headless chickens, in which case they should be punished anyways. As for the console spiel, it is dumbed down because console FPS is not as a fluid or easy to manipulate as it is on a PC with a mouse and keyboard. Console players need auto aim to be effective, why do you think there are no cross platform PVP FPS games? Every single time they have tried it in the past, the PC players destroy the console players because of the amount of control you have over aiming and movement. That is why this mechanic is dumbed down, it literally aims for you, turns for you, and is an instant kill, do you really think killing a clot that has grabbed you is more challenging now? before if you had say an m14, a top tier and powerful weapon, you could still whiff a group of clots that grabs you if you spammed body shots and couldnt hit a head. Now you literally click once, sprint, and you're free from that pack of 5 clots, were before you would be chewed to a pulp.
Now if anyone has any viable arguments as to why making this an optional feature would be detrimental, please feel free to share your two cents.
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