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Tanks taking a beating.

Dascoo

Grizzled Veteran
Jun 29, 2007
66
0
Today I saw a Panzer IV take 8 rounds from atleast 3 different tanks on Blackday July through my binoculars while waiting for artillery to finally come in and finish it. Probably would have been a normal site if it was a Tiger or a Panther, but the IV took 3 to the side, 2 to the turret and 3 richochets. I was actually counting how times it was hit :p

Usually I'm taken out in like 1 hit in that tank....the most I've survived is 4 in a Tiger :mad:
 
The United States Military posted after the war that on average it took 17 shots to disable/destroy a tank.

Stock RO tanks do not take enough hits.

Its even worse on Armored Beasts.

I think people want to improve the tactical aspects by making tanks basically big infantry with big bolt action rifles in the sense of kills (1 shot 1 kill.)

In truth, tanks should just be made harder to spot, shells a lot harder to spot (for both parties, so aiming is also harder), and getting a shot to do something useful should take some skill.

Anyways, atm, its silly that with the exception of angling (which can sometimes make it so tanks don't take damage at all), tanks in stock RO are pretty much universally 2 shots to kill (if you are in a better tank and know where to aim, you can get away with 1 shot), and in AB they are almost universally 1 shot, with the exception of weaker tanks at longer ranges just having their shells bounce.
 
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Somehow I smell a bait for another fierce conversation about penetrations and some theoretical ideas and such and such.

It is well known that if we really speak by the sake of penetrations vs the generic RO tank system, one shot would be one kill in almost any cases. And actually this might be true in some cases, one lucky shot that kills two crewmen while on it may damage interior that much that it is beter to perform aussteigen than just wait to get killed.

It is not impossible to have few holes in a tank while still being completely usable. However, this has been discussed to death already, but to make things simple:

-We lack large maps enough to make any "proper" tanking or to have actually "proper" "simulation" of doctrines. I am sure someone is going to point out Orel (or whatever it is), sure it is open, but for our "preferred" idea it is still too small.
-We have too simple tank system to make it "realistic" in the first place.
-We have no morale system (which is quite logical, you can't force one in FPS game).
-We are handicapped by the fact RO is just an simple FPS game. Until TWI introduces
 
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^Like he said.
Anyway if the tank system was realistic the Tiger would kill with one shot, it can't be destroyed by T-34s from the front, German panzers would be out-numbered, Soviet tanks would greatly out-number the German armour units on most maps, German heavy tanks would break down a lot, German armour units would be engaging at ranges of 1km and more and the Soviet would have Bear Mounted Cavalry units etc...
 
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for proper tank battles, and yes, TWI is trying their hardest, you need massive amounts of people..........dont think a 32 player server is gonna cut it, try 100+ players.........at that, squads of Tigers or IS2s, not just 3.

If you want to read about true tank doctrine, look up the classics written by Guderian and Rommel. Those books were written after WW1 and are still used as the basis for all tank operations........
 
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I know all ths.

I just A) want to get rid of hitpoints..completely.

and B) want the shells not to look like god damn cruise missiles.

Completely agree (especially regarding the ultra-bright, big fireball shells). In addition, at least the following basic things:

- Separate collision/damage models and calculations for the hull and the turret;

- 3D models for the HE shells (practically, the same models already used for AP shells), replacing the current... Panzerfaust warhead;

- Eliminating the coax MG turret shaking.
 
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Completely agree (especially regarding the ultra-bright, big fireball shells). In addition, at least the following basic things:

- Separate collision/damage models and calculations for the hull and the turret;

- 3D models for the HE shells (practically, the same models already used for AP shells), replacing the current... Panzerfaust warhead;

- Eliminating the coax MG turret shaking.

Better still. Integrate AB as default ;)
 
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Today I saw a Panzer IV take 8 rounds from atleast 3 different tanks on Blackday July through my binoculars while waiting for artillery to finally come in and finish it. Probably would have been a normal site if it was a Tiger or a Panther, but the IV took 3 to the side, 2 to the turret and 3 richochets. I was actually counting how times it was hit :p

Think I was inside that tank :D
 
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Think I was inside that tank :D

LOL! as bad as it sounds when the last patch came out I saw a Tiger tank take 12 shots to the turret from T-34/76 tanks, then the Russians got smart and used the IS2 that ripped the German Tiger tank to shreds in one shot in the front just under the flat part of the front armor. It was sweet!

I have also seen BT-7s take 8 shost before going down in flames. While this is not realsitic it was funny to see Panzer3s haveing such a hard time killing these little scout tanks.
 
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i recently, last week, had a P3.........and i took about 10 shots........all from about 800m........

i think part of it is people not realizing where the weak points are in the tanks(hit points) which were realistic......theres plenty of documents showing tankers and anti tank soldiers where to shoot a tank and what distance...........

This is a Russian document on HIT POINTS on Tigers, where to aim to best effectively destroy it quickly.
http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt_tigervulnerability/index.html

ttt_tiger_vulnerability.jpg
 
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Lets be frank. Although tanks in RO are fun, they are hurting for greater variety in gameplay. I.e. damagable elements of the tanks (turret traverse mechanism, main gun, tracks going - but allowing you to go a couple of metres more, till you run out of tracks, scopes, graded engine damage - not being capable of using it to the full), crew members damage, less prone to satchels. And probably more. I've read that all those blowing tanks are to simulate vehicles damaged beyond combat-worthiness, but I wish it was up to you to decide if you're still combat worthy or maybe you have to abandon the vehicle. A lot of other things that could have been decided automatically are left up to us, so why not this one little thingy? Newcomers frustration? Oh, well, weren't we all newcomers at some point? But we did stay - even with all those frustrating things happening to us on the servers... I hope you can acquire my drift and where I'm getting at.

I know that for many of you tanks are a marginal element of RO, and that for some of you they only add the "fun" element, I'd really appreciate greater detail added to this sphere of this game. Hell, yesterday I was on Splat's server (oy, KUTGW) riding with one of their guys and when our IS-2 was hit in the tracks... he just jumped out and continued the assault on foot! To be honest, I was stupefied by that behaviour (he was the commander, so if anything, I'd picture myself going back for another vehicle), and didn't notice that he went until a couple of seconds later. While I understand his desire to press on and score a cap, I was really let down by such gameish approach. For me it was a blast to stay in the damaged vehicle and just, you know, try to survive. Similarly, next round I teamed up with a good driver and although we scored a measly 3xPzIVs, a damaged PzV and a destroyed PzVI throughout the whole round (not counting PaK soldiers and the SdKfz's), it was a blast to play and just keep on surviving and harrasing the Jerries (we were parked in and in front of South Village for the duration of the round). Too bad we were killed that one time in the whole round, just two or three seconds before scoring the last cap.

Tanks deserve all the care the devs can spare, wouldn't you agree?
 
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great article from a german POW who was anti nazi:

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http://www.lonesentry.com/tanktalk/index.html


HOW TO FIGHT PANZERS: A GERMAN VIEW
An anti-Nazi prisoner of war, discussing the various methods of combating German tanks, makes some useful comments. Although they are neither new nor startling, they are well worth studying since they are observations made by a tank man who fought the United Nations forces in Italy.
German tanks undoubtedly are formidable weapons against a soft-shelled opposition, but become a less difficult proposition when confronted with resolution combined with a knowledge not only of their potentialities but also of their weaknesses.
When dealing with German heavy tanks, your most effective weapon is your ability to keep still and wait for them to come within effective range. The next most important thing is to camouflage your position with the best available resources so that the German tanks won't spot you from any angle.
If these two factors are constantly kept in mind, the battle is half won. Movement of any kind is a mistake which certainly will betray you, yet I saw many instances of this self-betrayal by the British in Italy. Allow the enemy tank to approach as close as possible before engaging it — this is one of the fundamental secrets of antitank success. In Italy I often felt that the British opened fire on tanks much too soon. Their aim was good, but the ranges were too great, and the rounds failed to penetrate. My own case is a good illustration: if the opposition had held its fire for only a few moments longer, I should not be alive to tell this tale.
By letting the German tank approach as close as possible, you gain a big advantage. When it is on the move, it is bound to betray its presence from afar. Whereas you yourself can prepare to fire on it without giving your own position away. The tank will spot you only after you have fired your first round.
A tank in motion cannot fire effectively with its cannon; the gunner can place fire accurately only when the vehicle is stationary. Therefore, there is no need to be unduly nervous because an approaching tank swivels its turret this way and that. Every tank commander will do this in an attempt to upset his opponents' tank recognition. If the tank fires nothing but its machine guns, you can be pretty sure that you have not yet been spotted.
Consider the advantages of firing on a tank at close range: 1. In most cases the leading tank is a reconnaissance vehicle. Survivors of the crew, when such a short distance away from you, have little chance of escape. This is a big advantage, inasmuch as they cannot rejoin their outfit and describe the location of your position to the main body.
2. Another tank following its leader on a road cannot run you down. In order to bypass the leading tank, it has to slow down. Then, long before the gunner can place fire on you, you can destroy the tank and block the road effectively. Earlier in the war, a German tank man I knew destroyed 11 hostile tanks in one day by using this method.
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further in the article:

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VULNERABILITY OF THE PZ. KPFW. VI
A tank is such a complicated weapon, with its many movable parts and its elaborate mechanism, that it is particularly valuable to know its points of greatest vulnerability. Recently the Soviet Artillery Journal published a number of practical suggestions, based on extensive combat experience, regarding the vulnerability of the Tiger.
All weapons now used for destroying German tanks — antitank guns and rifles, caliber .50 heavy machine guns, antitank grenades, and Molotov cocktails — are effective against the Pz. Kpfw. VI.
1. Suspension System. — The mobility of tanks depends upon the proper functioning of the suspension parts: the sprocket (small driving wheel), the idler (small wheel in the rear), the wheels, and the tracks. All these parts are vulnerable to shells of all calibers. The sprocket is especially vulnerable.
Fire armor-piercing shells and high-explosive shells at the sprocket, idler, and tracks.
Fire at the wheels with high-explosive shells. Use antitank grenades, antitank mines, and movable antitank mines against the suspension parts. Attach three or four mines to a board. Place the board wherever tanks are expected to pass. Camouflage the board and yourself. As a tank passes by, pull the board in the proper direction and place it under the track of the tank.
[A German source states that this method was successfully used on roads and road crossings in Russia, and that it still is taught in tank combat courses for infantry. The mine is called the Scharniermine (pivot mine). It consists of a stout length of board, 8 inches wide by 2 inches thick, and cut to a length dependent on the width of the road to be blocked. A hole is bored at one end, through which a spike or bayonet can be driven into the ground, thus providing a pivot for the board. A hook is fastened to the other end of the board, and a rope is tied to the hook, as shown in Figure 3. Tellermines are secured to the top of the board.
figure3pivotmine.jpg

One man can operate this mine. After the board has been fastened down at one end with the spike (in emergencies, a bayonet) and a rope tied to the hook at the other end, the board is laid along the side of the road. On the opposite side of the road, a man is posted in a narrow slit trench. He holds the other end of the rope. When a tank approaches, the tank hunter waits until it is close enough to the pivoted board, and, at the very last moment, he pulls the free end of the board across the road. The rope and slit trench must be well camouflaged. A good deal of emphasis is placed on this point.]
2. Side Armor Plates. — There are two armor plates on each side of the tank. The lower plate is partly covered by the wheels. This plate protects the engine and the gasoline tanks, which are located in the rear of the hull — directly beyond and over the two rear wheels. Ammunition is kept in special compartments along the sides of the tank. These compartments are protected by the upper armor plate.
Fire armor-piercing shells from 76-, 57-, and 45-mm guns at the upper and lower armor plate. When the gas tanks or ammunition compartments are hit, the vehicle will be set on fire.
3. Rear Armor Plate. — The rear armor plate protects the engine, the gasoline tank, and the radiators.
Use antitank guns. Aim at the rear armor plate. When the engine or the gasoline tanks are hit, the tank will halt and will begin to burn.
4. Peepholes, Vision Ports, and Slits. — The main turret has two openings for firing small-arms weapons, and two vision ports. The turret has five observation slits. There are two sighting devices on the roof of the front part of the tank — one for the driver, the other for the gunner. There is also a port with sliding covers in the front armor plate.
Use all available weapons for firing at the peepholes, observation ports, vision slits, and the ports for small-arms weapons.
5. Turrets. — The commander's turret is an important and vulnerable target.
Fire high-explosive and armor-piercing shells of all calibers at the commander's turret. Throw antitank grenades and incendiary bottles after the turret has been damaged.
The tank commander, the turret commander, and the gunner ride in the turret. The tank gun and many mechanical devices are found in the turret.
Fire at the turret with 76-, 57-, and 45-mm shells at ranges of 500 yards or less.
6. Tank Armament. — The turret is armed with a gun and a machine gun mounted coaxially. Another machine gun is found in the front part of the hull. It protrudes through the front armor plate, on a ball mount, and is manned by, the radio operator.
Concentrate the fire of all weapons on the armament of the tank. Fire with antitank rifles at the ball mount of the hull machine gun.
7. Air Vents and Ventilators. — The air vents and the ventilators are found under the slit-shaped perforations of the roof of the hull, directly behind the turret. Another air vent is located in the front part of the roof, between the two observation ports used by the radio operator and the driver.
Use incendiary bottles and antitank grenades to damage the ventilating system.
8. Tank Floor. — When an antitank mine explodes under the tank, the floor of the tank is smashed, and the tank is knocked out of action.
9. Base of Turret. — There is a 10-mm slit going all around the turret, between the base of the turret and the roof of the hull. Fire at the base of the turret with heavy machine guns and antitank guns, to destroy the turret mechanism, and disrupt the field of fire. Fire with high-explosive shells at the base of the turret in order to wreck the roof of the hull and put the tank out of action.

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I know that for many of you tanks are a marginal element of RO, and that for some of you they only add the "fun" element, I'd really appreciate greater detail added to this sphere of this game. Hell, yesterday I was on Splat's server (oy, KUTGW) riding with one of their guys and when our IS-2 was hit in the tracks... he just jumped out and continued the assault on foot! To be honest, I was stupefied by that behaviour (he was the commander, so if anything, I'd picture myself going back for another vehicle), and didn't notice that he went until a couple of seconds later. While I understand his desire to press on and score a cap, I was really let down by such gameish approach. For me it was a blast to stay in the damaged vehicle and just, you know, try to survive. Similarly, next round I teamed up with a good driver and although we scored a measly 3xPzIVs, a damaged PzV and a destroyed PzVI throughout the whole round (not counting PaK soldiers and the SdKfz's), it was a blast to play and just keep on surviving and harrasing the Jerries (we were parked in and in front of South Village for the duration of the round). Too bad we were killed that one time in the whole round, just two or three seconds before scoring the last cap.

Tanks deserve all the care the devs can spare, wouldn't you agree?


well, at one point, all i have to say is it is a game, and i think the devs have put alot of time into the tanks.

And it seems you exprienced a good team tanking effort. That is always a blast, there are few people i can team tank with, cause i dont like to stop moving. The only time i bail out of a tank is when i can get a new tank easily, theres buildings close by or my tank is in the red and its easier to defend an objective on foot(orel). Most times ill fire until i see the shell that is going to kill me coming, then its GTFO!

Ill agree on the tracks, thats a decent opportunity to sit and fight it out. On the other hand your completely vulnerable to artillery and tank fire.........
 
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I agree with I.Kant, when you get on a server with a load of players who know how to team tank, it ceases to be a minor side part of the game and practicaly becomes a whole new game in its self.

I think for a lot the problem is the steep learning curve of tank combat. You really need an experinced crew with VOIP to turn these machines into the deadly machines they are in real life. On a good open map with room to manuever a Panzer IV can be lethal in the right hands, not to mention the Tiger.
 
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lol.
If this guy was anti-Nazi, then why did he help the russians in ways to kill more German soldiers whom themselves are not even part of the Nazi party? If he was anti-Nazi then he should have found ways to kill Hitler and Co.


he was captured in Italy if you had read the article and was giving insights into the poor tactics of the Allies.

He probably wanted the nazi regime taken out even if it ment a few of his people getting killed. The quicker they were defeated the more lives were saved, at least in theory
 
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