SWAT costs too much

[CptJordy]

So after intense use of the SWAT class lately I noticed game after game that SWAT's ammo, weapons, and the most important part of SWAT, his only form of tanking, armor, costs wayyy too much. Game after game I am just unable to keep up with other classes and players as SWAT because my gear's cost is more than the wave's reward. And honestly I sometimes have to just keep my MP7 for a couple waves if I want to get anywhere later game. There is no rushing late game strategies or strategies or other shop strategies for SWAT because of its cost issues.

I don't think the guns themselves need that big of a cost adjustment, or that much at all, but I think ammo and armor costs need to go down.

My first suggestion: reduce ammo cost for all weapons by 15-20%.

Secondly: implement a 2% armor cost reduction per level or give it too heavy armor training or something because armor being the only form of tanking for SWAT just doesnt really work for how high of a cost armor is especially with the dosh nerfs in recent updates.

 

[Valkyrie_pl]

Armour cost is fine, it's the skill that makes it your second health bar (that gets depleted first, and thus likely require full recharge each round) that is broken and needs adjustments. I stopped even taking it, improves one's economy greatly. Spending first 4 waves with dual 9mm is also a great way of boosting your bank account.

As for general ammo costs, they probably could be adjusted somewhat, but as long as you are not spamming Vector as your main, you should get full gear around wave 8 at most. Then again, some other perks are literal money makers in comparison (e.g. Sharpshooter), so perhaps there is more to adjust here than just a little.

 

[DBShinigami]

When playing SWAT, I don't take armor until wave 5. I also go straight for the T3. I agree that ammo and armor cost too much for this perk.
I also find weird that you got 2 skills which are about armor in your "perk three" but basically are useless for half the game (because you don't have the monney to buy armor).

So, my suggestions for the SWAT perk :
- Spamming with armor as a passive : +4% for each level => 100 armor as a level 25,
- Heavy training training becomes : You only take health damage from siren as long as you got armor and clot can not grab you. Armor cost 30% less. You got 30% armor restored each game.

=> It makes senses. You need armor to tank. And, support with its "resupply pack" can grant to 5 players 20% of armor + 30% ammo, so it seems fair that as a tanking perk you can have your armor restored each wave.


- Assault armor becomes : Maximum armor increases to 50%. Armor cost 30% less (cumulative with heavy training). You got 30% armor restored each game.

=> So, with this 2 skills, you got a -60% reduction of armor cost (same as medic before the update), spawm with armor (same as medic before the update) and got some armor back each time which can be useful in the first wave.

- Decrease ammo cost to 20%.

 

[Aleflippy]

If you end up buying too much armor, either you are playing at higher difficulties (and then that's the point!) or you are being too reckless... SWAT is tanky,but not invincible! Also,you might want to switch that first skill if you wish to save some ammo... At least healing is free.

I could say the same about ammo to be honest... It's a fun (and somewhat useful) tactic to spray'n'pray,even more so when there's trash, but you should avoid it when possible! Firing short bursts, aimed at the head it you can, is far better than gunning like a madman. Also,don't forget that the SWAT is better at crowd control than killing the biggies which eats a lot of your ammo reserves. Finally, it's often better to use two guns instead of restocking a single one each time! Because ammo boxes are giving ammunition for ALL your weapons

 

[Chyros]

Instead of restocking your ammo, sell weapons with no ammo left in them. The sell revenue is the same, so you can save massive amounts of money that way.

 

[Koudspeel]

Instead of restocking your ammo, sell weapons with no ammo left in them. The sell revenue is the same, so you can save massive amounts of money that way.

The thing is, that none of the other classes are as tedious as the SWAT class is money-wise. Sure, I get by just fine with SWAT when I switch to single-shot fire the first few rounds and leave 1 zed alive and walk around the map to pick up ammo crates. Altough this makes the class less fun to play and you're basically useless for the rest of the team the first few rounds because of your wimpsy single-shot fire.

I'd suggest reducing the cost of ammo just ever so slightly and keep the body armour cost as is.

 

[Azukki]

SWAT armor is extra expensive in practice compared to other perks because of heavy armor training's primary function being wastefulness, but people not understanding that and keeping it after getting their spawn armor anyways. The price itself is standard as is.
If SWAT is to have better than standard armor compared to other perks, it should go into making his armor points last longer, instead of just having lots of them but then also discounting them into costing the same to fill.
Rework H.A.T. so that you take a regular or slightly reduced amount of health loss as anyone else with armor, but the armor degrades significantly slower. Make it beneficial in the way perfectly opposite to how it's currently detrimental.

MP7 is 0.533 dosh per round, 261 to fill. Very same price per round as the 9mm pistol/s, which is fair. The others progress up from there maybe a bit steeply.
MP5 .825 dpr, 410 to fill
P90 1dpr, 555 to fill
Kriss 1.061dpr, 754 to fill
Maybe mp5/p90/Kriss ammo price should be reduced 15% or so.

But, when you get ammo not buying it, SWAT does plenty well.
Grabbing boxes, you get a full mag each, and that's with the passive bonus to mags. With a MP5/P90/Kriss loadout at level 25, you're getting 236 dosh of onperk ammo from boxes.
Grabbing from support's resupply pack, you do even better, especially with an MP7. I've noticed that even the passive resupply that support has whether he likes it or not gives MP7 a whole pile of ammo, 240rds.

 

[hal-]

If you have to avoid a perk's strengths in order to sustain the economy, then something should be tweaked. Though the dual 9mms are nice, I'd argue that those are fallback weapons that are not truly a part of the SWAT arsenal. SWAT is also not really tanky if he has to choose between armor and ammo.

You can't rely on grabbing ammo boxes -- there are precious few in early rounds, and everybody wants them. And you shouldn't have to depend upon a player using the support perk... and then also having the supply skill.

I've tried switching to single fire and it's much more difficult with the recent mp7 nerf. Short bursts are fine for trash, but you burn through ammo really fast and it becomes prohibitive to resupply if you also hope to buy a higher tier weapon reasonably early.

What I'm saying is that it is possible to play SWAT outside the role of the perk and reach a sustainable economy, but it is very very difficult to play SWAT as a tank with SMGs and not have to depend on other players for dosh.

 

[Koudspeel]

If you have to avoid a perk's strengths in order to sustain the economy, then something should be tweaked. Though the dual 9mms are nice, I'd argue that those are fallback weapons that are not truly a part of the SWAT arsenal. SWAT is also not really tanky if he has to choose between armor and ammo.

You can't rely on grabbing ammo boxes -- there are precious few in early rounds, and everybody wants them. And you shouldn't have to depend upon a player using the support perk... and then also having the supply skill.

I've tried switching to single fire and it's much more difficult with the recent mp7 nerf. Short bursts are fine for trash, but you burn through ammo really fast and it becomes prohibitive to resupply if you also hope to buy a higher tier weapon reasonably early.

What I'm saying is that it is possible to play SWAT outside the role of the perk and reach a sustainable economy, but it is very very difficult to play SWAT as a tank with SMGs and not have to depend on other players for dosh.

I couldn't agree more. You summed it up quite nicely.

 

[random]

Instead of restocking your ammo, sell weapons with no ammo left in them. The sell revenue is the same, so you can save massive amounts of money that way.

last time i checked only the mp7 makes a profit on that, about 50 per wave. sure there are various ways to make do, but it's still gimmicky and that is not really the point, there are a lot of akward things in the skills.

-armor training is counterproductive money and defense wise.
-the other armor skill could be good but the price is too high and most of the time is best to avoid it, if it gave more armor resistance or it was the same cost it would be good.
-backup skill helps a lot but is not very much on character and makes the dualies better than GS, which is odd in itself.(also you lose bonus xp)

 

[Chyros]

I never use the heavy armour training, like you said it actually costs money. I guess you could get it for the first wave and then switch just to profit off the cheap armour but I can't be arsed to switch every time. I never use the dualies skill either, or the backup one.

Off the top of my head, this is how I usually do it:

wave 1: MP7 (obviously) (single-fire only)
wave 2: MP7
wave 3: P90
wave 4: Vector
wave 4: Vector + MP7
wave 5: Vector + MP7
wave 6: Vector + P90 (sometimes I can't afford this and have to wait until wave 7, depends on armour)
wave 7: Vector + P90 + MP7
boss fight: Vector + P90 + medic pistol

Now that the MP5 is actually worth using I've been going MP5 on wave 2 a bit as well instead.

 

[random]

there is no shortage of build orders, the one you mention sounds good, i also go for multiple (3) smgs asap, making use of crates and or supports, and rebuy mp7 without buying any ammo for it.

But that is more in the line of tactics to overcome the shortcomings of the perk money balance and not on the topic itself being that it cost too much money compared to others.

 

[Lorkenpeist]

I always start with both armor skills and dualies, and use the dualies for everything non-clot while I'm still leveling because 9mm doesn't give bonus XP. Then wave 2 I switch off the armor skills and dualies skill, and sell my second 9mm and get a MP5. I'll keep the +max armor skill if there's a Support with super supplier because that repairs 20% max armor, not flat 20. Then it's MP7 for clots and crawlers, MP5 for everything else, until wave 5 or so (on long games) when I can pick up a Vector and sell my MP7 once it's dry. Then around wave 7 I sell the MP5 for a P90. I really haven't had issues with ammo or money as SWAT, and I have never needed to take the +max ammo skill. Once in awhile I will run out of ammo in my lesser gun and have to finish the wave with the greater one, but I never run out of both. And that's even without a Support.

 

[HunBonus]

I do believe ammo costs way too much for the SWAT. I can barely afford upgrading my gear, even without buying any armor or grenades.

 

[Zidious G]

Ammo is expensive as hell. They should lower it quite a bit.

 

[mrnok14l]

It's just the combination of shots-to-kill and damage fall-off thingy.

 

[Denks]

I like to skip over the P90 and go straight to the Kris. Early waves are quite doable with knife/dualies/MP7 so I do (I play hard/suicidal multiplayer). Once I have the Kris I need nothing more. Single-fire for everything other than Scrake/FP/Boss. I have no ammo issues with this strategy... except for the final boss.

I used to love the P90, but it's a bit of an ammo hog and quite expensive for an anti-trash weapon. While the Kris doesn't do much more damage, every bit helps, and the fire rate in automatic is a dream for blowing off the head of a grenade stunned scrake. Try doing that with the other SMG's.

NOTE: I do buy an off-perk Magnum revolver for the boss. SMG's bleed ammo at ludicrous speed in full auto with poor DPS to boot.