• Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/

Stop the press! An idea that involves crosshairs! - Tank Communication

Good idea & i think you NEED some sort of screen markre to put on the target. Otherwise we're in the same situation & the driver will have to have 2 or 3 attempts to get the target right if he can't put xhairs on it. It's not taking the game away from realism. It's just using a tried & tested method in a different way which adds to the overall realism of the game & makes up for the shortfall in Ingame coms.
 
Upvote 0
Excellent idea! After playing Krivoi Rog quite a bit recently (and finding myself driving more frequently than gunning) I have come to the realization that this could be the answer to many of the problems that happen. I was also thinking that maybe primary fire could be to point something out to the commander whereas the secondary fire could be used for close range infantry (need not apply in Krivoi Rog) such sappers, etc. so that the machine-gunner could take those into account.
 
Upvote 0
I really cant see any reason for this not to implemented into the next update.

The devs are extremely talented and shouldnt have any troubles adding this feature to the game.

Nothing worse than being a driver, seeing impending death and having no practical way of communicating it do the gunner whos got very limited battlefield view when inside and aiming.

Its just so dam unrealisticif because if a tank driver sees a threat hed be screaming his face off, saying 8 oclock! 8 oclock!! TANK!! or INFENTRY because his in a steel hull full of explosives!

If anyone can think of a reason not to add this please share it.

Obvoulsy the exact mechanics will be scruinised over and tested over and over but the concepts gold.
 
Upvote 0
My suggestions would be to:

1) Let drivers (when stationary) have binocular ability to spot targets.

2) Let MG's have the ability to unbutton, and the same stationary binocular ability as for drivers.

3) Introduce a Gunner's position, in addition to the existing crew positions. More realistic, and allows the TC to concentrate on managing the tank instead of multi-hatting as is presently done. Note that the Gunner position would be gunsight-only, with no external view (as is the current MG position).

I'm essentially against having the artificial crosshair system as mentioned, simply because they just didn't do it that way in those days- nowadays there are any number of gunnery systems available with slave sights and such, but not so in the Good Old Days.

Giving the Driver and MG positions the (realistic!) ability to unbutton and use binoculars would go a long way to help with target identification without introducing a glaring artificiality into the game.

As for calling targets and such, that's simply a matter of crew coordination- if tankers know what they're doing, they SHOULD be already noting targets and calling them out on vehicle VOIP.

(What to do for crews that are of mixed languages? I would support a text-based system for calling targets, similar to the existing vehicle commands. Sure it's slower than VOIP, but those are the fortunes of war I suppose.)
 
Upvote 0
I'm essentially against having the artificial crosshair system as mentioned, simply because they just didn't do it that way in those days- nowadays there are any number of gunnery systems available with slave sights and such, but not so in the Good Old Days.

And back in those days they didn't drive tank with five buttons and aim and shoot and such with a weird thing called mouse. Or if there's unwritten part about that in history I'd like to read it. ;)

3) Introduce a Gunner's position, in addition to the existing crew positions. More realistic, and allows the TC to concentrate on managing the tank instead of multi-hatting as is presently done. Note that the Gunner position would be gunsight-only, with no external view (as is the current MG position).

Now this is not a 'bad' idea in case of realism, but let's see this:

Let's pretend we have about 32 - 40 player server. It takes four guys to man a tank. Practically that leaves only about three fully manned tanks (presuming if they do have all four positions). Now at bigger servers, let's say about 50 players, we could have about five fully manned tanks. Now it would be more realistic by the idea, but let's face the bigger problem:

It would not work 3\4 of time. Why? The problem of being a video game surrounded by weird inviduals. Some people might enjoy team tanking and co-ordination (which belongs in the minority), while majority is often just like "get outta mah tankzz0r!" or "omg noob learn to aim giev meh ze gunnarz."

Now let us put that in practical situation. Yes I know there are servers with good people around or players who truly want to co-ordinate, but the majority of people (based bit on both personal experience and amount of whining around the RO forums) are silly dillydallys who just rally their tank in front run'n gun style and jump back'n forth in turret-driver position and TANKRUSH KEKEKEKEKEKE!

So practically you would need people who really know each other in way or another to have fully manned tank idea to work. And in combined arms maps if we have like two tanks each side and both are fully manned, that's already eight people. Roughly a third of one side's people even at larger servers. I can imagine in Konigsplatz the poor Soviets where their tanks eat about 7 guys from their 26 (let's pretend we have 52 player server). That's almost the rough third of the entire Soviet side. And let's add the possibility that these tankers are so called idiots (aka n00bmastarz) and we have one big Kindergarten going. I know, this happens already, but usually it's just driver and gunner-commander in tank. Rarely some random people stick around in the bow-MG spot.

Alternate possibility is that the commander seat is left unused, but generally having four man tanks is bad idea. As realistic as it might be, it causes server handicap in the game itself. It's like if we implement a forced fear of death that your accuracy is suddenly decreased -80% and stamina is halved among with your speed and your vision looks like you are drunk.

In short: For practical reasons it is not good idea to add official seat for the commander. Sure for "realism" reasons, but I doubt why add such small realistic idea when the entire tank system needs a major overhaul to be even slightly realistic in the first place? Fixing things in the long runs would be more ideal, even though I doubt we ever get official updates in the armour system.


And as with the idea itself I fully offer my support.
 
Upvote 0
Ok then, for the nay sayers of the crosshair (kinda see your point-theres no other kind of proper floaty HUD as it is now.. why add one for this?) SO...Why not just have left mouse button in drivers view yell "TANK (whatever o'clock i've clicked)" and the right button yell "(INFANTRY whatever o'clock i clicked)".

Simple, no floating X's in anyones view but there is the vocal heads up.(so to speak).

I'd be happy with a pretty rough system too, depending on what TW already got recorded (i would assume they recorded extra stuff when in the studio for a bit of future proofing.. surely they should have them mans reading numbers to 20 already?? But i dunno). We got the "Tank" and "infantry" yells for both languages. SO just robot 'em up - "Tank at 11" or "Infantry at 2".

BOSH !!! DONE!
 
Upvote 0
i think we need the opposite system more bad!

when teamtanking in a StuG as a commander it's really hard to get the driver to position the tank in the right direction.
i was just on debrecen and my driver was really getting me mad, when a target was a few meters out of range i told him to turn a liitle left. and he rotates the tank 90 degrees left... this happens verry oftenly, especially now when the driver who has got no goggles cant actually see your targets anymore beyond 1000m.

and soon there will be a jagdpanther with no hatch at all for the driver...
 
Upvote 0
I still have to stand by my suggestion of having a Gunner's station implemented- obviously, as is done at present, the tank can be solo-crewed but having the OPTION of having a dedicated Gunner is certainly 'doable'.

I do understand the limitations of having fully-manned tanks in the field, even with the reduced crew options we presently have. In my own unit, the 503rd, I agonized over 'playability' vs 'realism' with regard to tank crews and came to the only logical solution: keep a 2-man crew dedicated, but realize the need to get more guns up front in solo-crewed vehicles when necessary. If I, or RO in general, were to insist on fully-manned tanks it would definitely use up the bulk of a team's manpower at current server limits.

So, all in all, I'd still say it would be A Good Thing to have a separate Gunner's station AS AN OPTION, but certainly not to implement any sort of 'minimum crew required' ruling.

(I'd say an optimal crew rotation would be for the TC to double as Driver, while the Gunner remains in the top hatch scanning for targets. When a target is sighted, the Gunner drops down to his station while the TC/Driver goes up top to observe and aquire additonal targets. Once the engagement is over, the TC/Driver cranks up and rolls while the Gunner goes back up top. Both crew members get to do 'fun stuff' while providing a little more realistic crew arrangement. Note that the vast majority of WW2 tanks fired from a complete- or at least a short- halt, so leaving the driver's station unmanned during firing really isn't an issue.)
 
Upvote 0