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Single Player Campaign

Now it is time for you to stop and listen.
Unreal is the most used game engine in the world today.
It does matter how many other games have used it.

And this is why...
Because there is a publicly accessable knowledge base for how to use it.
There is also a lisencee knowledge base on how to use it.

The Unreal engine is taught in schools.

Americas Army dev's were not re-inventing the wheel. Everything they did had been done before.



The AI is part of the game engine. The scripting for it is done in the map editor.

If I can look it up, so can anyone else.

To make a Unreal AI go prone. you add this header to the area of the map you wish them to do it in. "-bG0Prone".
At least you did back in 2003.
So if you want AI's to belly crawl under barbed wire, you make that barbed wire an actor and attach the go prone command to it.



However the AI in RO fell far short of the AI in both America's Army and even UT.

The reason?
Bad map design.

If the AI in RO was as good as the AI in UT I wouldn't be arguing with you. But it wasn't.

No, you can use that bool function in a game like America's Army, because the Dev team coded that function into their AI and path noding.

But it's their own work, setting bGOProne = true will do NOTHING in UT or any raw version of the engine, except cause a compile error, "unrecognized member in xxxxxx, can't find "bGOProne"", because the function does not exist.

When you are using the SDK for an existing game, you ARE NOT working with the raw engine, but working with the benifit of all the special classes and functions the Dev team have custom made for their game. And yes, a lot of the stuff they did for that game had been done before, but that doesen't mean they didn't have to sit down and actually code it in there, it did not come standard.

And no, bots are not made in the map editor on the Unreal engine, only pathnoding the maps is, to create any new function you must export the bot class files to a .UC file, and code it manually, trust me, i have worked with this stuff.


You need to look at a raw engine build, like the UDK (which is actually not entirely raw, it does come with some UT3 assets) to understand what the engine actually comes standard with, what you would actually get if you where to license it.
And if you do, you will find that the bots are actually an allmost blank slate, they can do very little, just barely run around and shoot, and that's it.

You can then use that blank slate to create something good, yes, absolutely, and that is why you have seen good AI in Unreal engine games, because the developers created it. But it does not come standard with all thouse cool things you have seen, not even remotely, and the developers have to spend months coding that stuff in there and testing it, and it is not a simple matter of placing some pathnodes in the level editor either, it's manual code creation, typing in lines of text in Notepad to create new code, there is nothing automatic or conveniant about the process.



And your conclusion is entirely flawed, you are moaning about a game having bad bot support, when it doesen't and was never ment to support bots in the first place.

Go open the Steam store page and find Red Orchestra Ostfront there, and read what the marketing for the game says. At no point does it mention AI, or any kind of Singleplayer, on the side panel, you will only find the Multiplayer icon, there is no mention of SP there either.

And with good reason, the game does not support SP, it is not an official feature of the game.


That it does have a crude offline practice mode is just a bonus they dicided not to remove from the engine (but neither did they develop it, it's just leftover code from UT), but it's not actually supported, and at no point do they market the game on it, they don't even mention that it exists, there litereally is zero mention of AI or SP at all in the game's marketing.

So if you actually bought RO:Ost thinking you got an SP game.. i have to ask, why? What gave you that idea? Did you read it in some poorly written 3'rd party review of the game? Because you most certainly did not read it on the Steam store page, or on TWI's website, it has allways been marketed as an MP shooter only.

If TWI had actually marketed the game as having SP, and had actually coded thease terrible bots to be this bad, then yes, you would have had every right to complain, but they did neither, the game was sold as MP-Only, and the AI is not their code, it's 90% standard UT stuff (the remaining 10% beeing just basic code that tells them "when the game starts you should choose a random class" and "when your gun is empty you should reload it", just the basics to make them function in this gametype).

And no, this is not bad map design on TWI's part, seriously, go download the SDK for RO:Ost, open any map, do whatever you please to it, place as many new pathnodes and triggered events as you want, and lets see you make them play any better (remeber to rename the map before you save it though, or you'll get version mismatch if you try to play it online).
It won't happen, because this has nothing to do with map design or bot pathing, it has everything to do with the bots base code just beeing standard UT code, not at all ment to work with RO's kind of gameplay, and the bot code beeing unsupported and undeveloped, BECAUSE RO IS NOT AN SP GAME, and TWI could not afford to throw additional resources at them.


Ohh, and as an aside: RO:Ost is not the only game TWI has released, go look up Killing Floor, another UE 2.5 engine game they have released, and which has good AI, because that is a coop Players-vs-AI game, and the AI in that game is actually supported, and works just fine (it's nothing special, but the AI does exactly what it's supposed to be doing, so no complaints there).
 
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So if you actually bought RO:Ost thinking you got an SP game.. i have to ask, why? What gave you that idea? Did you read it in some poorly written 3'rd party review of the game? Because you most certainly did not read it on the Steam store page, or on TWI's website, it has allways been marketed as an MP shooter only.

Just citing him from another post, personally I have no idea since I have not seen the backside of the box RO is sold in, but if this is true, I could have been pretty annoyed myself too.

If it helps however, we might wish to examine this further.
Firstly you are incorrect. The practise mode is a clearly advertised feature on my RO box.
Had it not been there, I doubt I would have bought it. (I'd already been online and read they had bots available).
 
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The idea that stock Unreal AI can't even reload is highly comical to me. Of course it bloody well can. It can probably even breakdance.

Install UT2k3\2k4 and open up the files as much as possible and start reading the AI code. Compare it to any other game with same engine with those so-called self-evident or obvious features and see how many lines there's missing or completely diffrent, unless somehow "stock" AI means it varies that certain games are missing some important lines which works as additional\new functions and some games are somehow missing them as if some wizard erased them prior the release.
 
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Consider yourself corrected.




If it helps however, we might wish to examine this further.
Firstly you are incorrect. The practise mode is a clearly advertised feature on my RO box.
Had it not been there, I doubt I would have bought it. (I'd already been online and read they had bots available).

.....
.
Pics or it didn't happen? :p
Anyone?


I do know (as Grobut has stated) that nowhere on Steam or on TW's website is there any mention of SP, bots or practice for RO:OST. If you heard about them through a third party review, I'm sure it would have been pretty scathing.
 
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