Shotgun Ammunition

[Sammers]

If the special ammunition can only be purchase once per trader wave and only for limited magazines it would still be balanced.

No it wouldn't. Support would have a shotgun full of Frags and a shotgun full of buck. They could take on ANYTHING, since they'd get a discount and bonus' applied to each. Sure, they can already take on anything with for example, the AA12 and M32, but at least that way they have to pay ridiculous prices for the M32 and wont have it augmented beyond belief. For the ammo per perk basis, it may work though. Wouldn't work if any perk could use any ammo.

 

[Surkov]

It's a neat concept that I've always wanted to see in a game, but it's no good for this game. The perks are in place to force specialization, contributing to teamwork and distinct play styles. If Support had the functionality and themes of the other perks, then what's the point of perks at all?

You haven't read through all my posts on the subject have you? The backing force for me suggesting this idea was to create a unique and different "feel" for the support specialist by giving him a broad range of abilities so he could swap through them as necessary, giving him a unique feel by having him specialize in team support, picking and choosing ammunition types to help his team where they could not help themselves and swapping between the carried types as the situation changed instead of staying the close quarters support as is.

The shotguns belong to Support Specialist, and his theme of projectile is buckshot. Deal with it.
If you want other kinds of projectiles, pick the respective perk that shoots them.

I couldn't possibly begin to describe how much that ****ing irritates me. saying deal with it is just saying "give up, your screwed in this and that's just too ****ing bad" without giving any support to the statement (and fyi that wouldn't matter much anyway i wouldn't appreciate the sentiment unless i undeniably without a doubt had to give up on something.)
Read the damn thread.

 

[Sammers]

I couldn't possibly begin to describe how much that ****ing irritates me. saying deal with it is just saying "give up, your screwed in this and that's just too ****ing bad"

And we don't have to justify our points. I didn't justify my first point and I just said 'deal with it' too. Then you come along and ask me to justify and I do. Before I know it, you've jumped straight down my throat with some bloody rant about how wrong I am and how right you are, when I don't really care. I still thought it wont work and I told you why I thought so. You can't tell us that we're thinking wrong.
It'll likely be exactly the same with Azukki, which is why he probably wont bother replying.
And for the record, It didn't sound like Azukki misunderstood any of this thread. All of his stuff made perfect sense.

 

[Surkov]

And we don't have to justify our points. I didn't justify my first point and I just said 'deal with it' too. Then you come along and ask me to justify and I do. Before I know it, you've jumped straight down my throat with some bloody rant about how wrong I am and how right you are, when I don't really care. I still thought it wont work and I told you why I thought so. You can't tell us that we're thinking wrong.
It'll likely be exactly the same with Azukki, which is why he probably wont bother replying.
And for the record, It didn't sound like Azukki misunderstood any of this thread. All of his stuff made perfect sense.

Then with that attitude i might as well reply with "**** off" to any post you put here. Who cares anyway? I mean after all I wouldn't have to justify it or anything. Oh wait i can't tell you that your thinking wrong? you mean like you've been doing to me? i was debating points on the suggestion with you not ranting. And for the most part i got a decent debate from you. Oh and of course had Azukki read the thread he might have realized that i started ranting when you said "Deal with it." too and thought better of deliberately using it when it was obvious I'd have a negative reaction to it.

 

[Sammers]

you mean like you've been doing to me?

Not much I can say other than; you started it.
I wasn't debating. I was saying that I didn't think the idea would work. Then you coaxed me into saying why and proceeded to debate. The only resaon you seem to want to debate is so that you can take the points we make and debate against them, whereas you could be explaining these things on your own as additions to your suggestion.

it was obvious I'd have a negative reaction to it.

No-one made you reply. You could always have ignored it.

 

[Surkov]

Not much I can say other than; you started it.
I wasn't debating. I was saying that I didn't think the idea would work. Then you coaxed me into saying why and proceeded to debate. The only resaon you seem to want to debate is so that you can take the points we make and debate against them, whereas you could be explaining these things on your own as additions to your suggestion.

Same difference mate they are one and the same.

No-one made you reply. You could always have ignored it.

Yeah, better chances of hell freezing over.

 

[Sammers]

Yeah, better chances of hell freezing over.

Well then you better start getting used to more negative comments with that attitude. You are like grade A trollbait. Just remember, ignorance is bliss.

 

[Zeptorem]

Right, so I've been thinking about this for a while and i think it would be a nice feature for the support specialist.

Oh boy I can't wait to hear a brilliantly-conceived and original idea!

I think he ought to have access to different types of ammunition that he can load into his various shotguns, after all he is capable of carrying more weapons than other classes and different types of rounds have seen use in real life

Real life =/= Future Weapons

a short list includes

-Shotgun slugs

Cool, it'll be just like sharpshooter.

-Flechette rounds

Cool, it would function just like buckshot.

-Frag 12 explosive rounds

Cool, it would be just like Demolitions.

-Breaching rounds

Man, this would almost be slightly useful if Support didn't already have a bonus to unwelding.

-Gas shells
-XREP Taser Rounds

Dohoho

Given these many types of ammunition i could see the support specialist filling a large amount of supporting roles. So what do you think eh?

I think it would mean the support specialist would be filling a large amount of roles already occupied by the other perks.

This idea is bad for a number of reasons:

1. Support is OP as it is. No matter what you say, Frag-12 or slugs in an AA12 would either be hideously overpowered or be the same power as buckshot, in which case there's no point in adding them.

2. Multiple ammo types for multiple weapons adds needless complexity to what is supposed to be a simple, fast-paced shooter. No one's going to bother switching out different ammo types when a fleshpound is busting through the door, and the OCD basement dwellers like myself that insist on picking the best ammo and weapon for any situation will get the rest of the team killed.

3. Support's role is already clearly-defined: shoot giant enemies at close range for massive damage and weld doors. These ammunition types would encroach on other perk's territory (slugs, frag-12) or distract support from their job of actually killing things (gas, taser, breaching round).

You know, ever few weeks I leave this horrible forum for greener pastures, only to come back out of some kind of sick intellectual masochism. This thread vindicates my absences.

 

[Surkov]

You know, ever few weeks I leave this horrible forum for greener pastures, only to come back out of some kind of sick intellectual masochism. This thread vindicates my absences.

You know this is getting really ****ing old. I thought of an idea i suggested it and then defended it what the **** is so complicated about that. Your saying the same things as everyone else. Either there's a major miscommunication here or.... no wait someones definitely missing something.

 

[Zeptorem]

You know this is getting really ****ing old. I thought of an idea i suggested it and then defended it what the **** is so complicated about that. Your saying the same things as everyone else. Either there's a major miscommunication here or.... no wait someones definitely missing something.

No, you're missing something.

You failed to identify the role of Support beyond the name. It's already the most well-rounded class in the game; its only real weakness is lengthly and frequent reloads, which is more-or-less countered by Support's ability to carry multiple primary weapons and switch between them. Support, despite the name, is the team's broom, sweeping out lots of small and medium enemies and tackling the occasional large one. By introducing new ammo types you'd be splitting the duties of the support class.

Imagine if the Medic perk didn't exist and the healing bonuses were applied to Sharpshooter instead for whatever reason.

If an SS were in a team, he would either take on the role of sniping or healing full-time; switching between them is too much of a headache when gorefasts are bearing down on you. Not to mention you'd see whole teams of sharpshooter because it'd have virtually no weaknesses.

Same with support if these ammo types were added. If it were overpowered (which the slugs and the Frag-12 would be) that would be a problem in and of itself, but if Support had to take on the additional role of slowing/incapacitating enemies along with killing lots of enemies and welding doors... it's just too much **** for one class.

 

[Sammers]

Your saying the same things as everyone else.

What's wrong with that? We're not a hive mind or anything.....

 

[Surkov]

Support, despite the name, is the team's broom, sweeping out lots of small and medium enemies and tackling the occasional large one.

I can think of three perks off the top of my head that could be applied to just as well, even more if you take into account offhand abilities of other perks, but again efficiency is key.

Imagine if the Medic perk didn't exist and the healing bonuses were applied to Sharpshooter instead for whatever reason.

If an SS were in a team, he would either take on the role of sniping or healing full-time; switching between them is too much of a headache when gorefasts are bearing down on you. Not to mention you'd see whole teams of sharpshooter because it'd have virtually no weaknesses.

Unless the equipment used takes up nearly all the weight blocks you have then i doubt that sincerely, people already weapon switch that's we have Berserkers with lever action rifles.

What's wrong with that? We're not a hive mind or anything.....

Depends on what you consider a hive mind. Psychology like pretty much everything else has terms with multiple meanings. But that's just me being an arse about semantics. Anyway what i was getting at with that is that I'm just getting repetitive arguments of points that i feel I've already covered. I guess i haven't done enough then.

 

[Sammers]

Anyway what i was getting at with that is that I'm just getting repetitive arguments of points that i feel I've already covered. I guess i haven't done enough then.

Well I'm pretty sure you can deal with that without angry curse words highlighted in bold for emphasis. Stuff like that just earns you a negative reputation.

 

[Surkov]

Well I'm pretty sure you can deal with that without angry curse words highlighted in bold for emphasis. Stuff like that just earns you a negative reputation.

You know, ever few weeks I leave this horrible forum for greener pastures, only to come back out of some kind of sick intellectual masochism. This thread vindicates my absences.

That's what i can deal without. Aggression is met with aggression. Catching on aye?