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Seriously, will TWI fix the cheap spawning?

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#42
Colt .45 killer said:
is this just on suicidal or other difficulites? ive known this to happen on suicidal for a long time now, but never seen it on other difficulties.

I think one of the added difficulties of suicidal is that they spawn closer, so occasionally it somehow views the spawn position right behind you as a good place to spawn them.
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What I am trying to say is, something SHOULD NOT happen in certain games. Like Call of Duty, you can have two ways to make the game harder. Increase the health of enemies or increase the number of them. Which way do you prefer? I will pick increase the number for sure. As the enemies are HUMANS. Thet just SHOULD NOT take more than a few shots to kill.
Then in kf, they are zeds that dont have the super power of teleport. So they SHOULD NOT appear from thin air, they should appear at the next corner or higher level of the map.


Edit: Ah, yeah. This will happen on normal, hard and suicidal. Not sure about beginer.
YouTube - Cheap spawning in Killing Floor 2
 
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#44
outofrealman said:
Killing floor is NOT a game of ghost, killing floor is not a game like matrix. I like to be supprised by zeds. They can jump down from higher level, they can spawn right before I turn a corner. At least that make sense.


Take a look on the vedio, WHERE do those two groups of flesh pounds come from? If they jump down from the 2nd floor or open the door and overun me, I still enjoy it very much. THIS MAKES SENSE! But spawning like the current way just make me feel like I am playing some ghost game, "anything is possible" huh? I like to be supprised, but suddenly pop some zeds out of thin air SHOULD NOT HAPPEN in the world of kf.
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/signed. Surprise is good, visible spawn locations is not.
 
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#45
Yeah, I have several videos on xfire of this as well. Like I've said, it turns the game into a spam fest shooting gallery, rather than a strategic survival game. I really wish people would stop accusing us of whining about the difficulty, thats not what this is about. I've seen spawns like the ones in that video all the time on every map. Its stupid. It kills the survival horror atmosphere and turns KF into a Painkiller clone with slower enemies.

Other posts on the forums have suggested reducing the damage bonuses and discounts given for perk specific weapons, in addition to balancing them. I think this would be a great way to keep the difficulty up. Move the spawns out of my face dammit.
 
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#47
SgtShaftoe said:
Like I've said, it turns the game into a spam fest shooting gallery, rather than a strategic survival game

Other posts on the forums have suggested reducing the damage bonuses and discounts given for perk specific weapons, in addition to balancing them. I think this would be a great way to keep the difficulty up. Move the spawns out of my face dammit.
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"Strategic survival" does not mean having the zeds funnel in through one obvious door and mowing them down endlessly with no skill required

At least this Completely wipes out the morons that try doing that by ambushing them when they decided to camp in one area for an hour solid

Slightly reducing SOME PERKS bonuses (Sharpshooter+Crossbow comes to mind) would be perfectly fine while boosting some others (Ala Zerker and firebug) would remove the requisite for more and tougher mobs

Keep the cheap spawning though, i love chaos, and the RAEG it causes is amazingly entertaining
 
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#48
outofrealman said:
So you think xeds should spawn as soon as you turn around? I am lucky to get just one clot, sometimes I turn this corner, nothing, look back and turn around in 1-2sec, 6-8gorefast's spawn and instan-kill me. Yeah, it is difficult only because I cant kill them all with 8 headshots.
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I agree with you in theory but in practise I just don't have the same problem. Occasionally I get something like what you show in that video, but can't think of a time I've been surrounded by insta-spawn zeds and pretty much been forced to die.

Biotics lab is one of the worst offenders because the spawn volumes take up nearly every square metre of playing area. Did you know that the map designer can also designate a distance from spawn a player needs to be for that spawn to trigger? So, unless the zeds are "teleporting" (which is yet to be proven), then the problems are a result of map design, not the game itself. Because Biotics lab is a stock map, you could argue that it is the game at fault because the map is part of the game. But, the way things are you do have a choice in what maps you play.

I have always thought it a bit lame how zombies spawn in hallways and the same rooms you fight in, but to change this in the closed in maps like Biotics lab is too late now. I designed a map where 99% of the zombie spawns are in player inaccessible areas. The result is they can't just appear behind you in a hallway for example. But don't be fooled, it is still very difficult because they can get to you fast enough that you are never safe. Its harder still because there's no camping spots. BUT, even if this map isn't everyone's cup of tea, it would be a good map to prove if 'teleporting' occurs. Its called KF-Dreamhouse btw, it can be found on the beta map release forum. Not trying to push people into playing my map just saying that there are alternatives. In fact I think even the new maps that came with LevelUp aren't as bad for hallway spawns etc.
 
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#49
Like someone said, they can make zed spawn further away from players, but increase their speed for 3-5X before they get in rage of players. Then the funny hallway spawning will gone and still it will be difficult.

I just HATE this spawning take away the "logical" thinking that used to work. You SHOULD prepare for a group of zeds before you turn a corner, or the hole above you, not just turning backwards. Hallways spawning just makes I feel like playing on some CoD mod that makes every enemy damn hard to kill. Each "human" takes 10 head shots to kill is just "unreal".
 
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#50
outofrealman said:
Like someone said, they can make zed spawn further away from players, but increase their speed for 3-5X before they get in rage of players. Then the funny hallway spawning will gone and still it will be difficult.

I just HATE this spawning take away the "logical" thinking that used to work. You SHOULD prepare for a group of zeds before you turn a corner, or the hole above you, not just turning backwards. Hallways spawning just makes I feel like playing on some CoD mod that makes every enemy damn hard to kill. Each "human" takes 10 head shots to kill is just "unreal".
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Yes, because we all know this should be L4D where a single headshot from even a pistol will always instakill any mob that isnt a tank

Hell, why dont we just add auto-aim, crosshairs, instaheal kits, unlimited ammo piles, grenades capable of locking down whole areas and mounted guns and turrets capable of killing anything instantly that crosses their path

Grow up, "Logical" thinking in a dark, scary, locked-in labratory spawning hundreds of THOUSANDS of clones doesnt mean "hide in one area and pray they dont find me" it means "i should be looking for supplies to keep going and watching my back and flanks for ambushes - i have a job to do"

you're supposed to play the part of a mercenary, not a scared little schoolgirl afraid of getting a little blood on your skirt

Real men set traps, create diversions, and make enemies do what they want them to do, while never standing still and potentially being ambushed to death by a random husk or something because camping in that corner down a long hall with every door welded and a dozen pipes seemed smart at the time

If you dont like KF's method of spawning zombies on you incessantly to keep you moving and fighting for your life, either play beginner or go play Left4Failure, it'll probably fit you better
 
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#51
Zerethon said:
Yes, because we all know this should be L4D where a single headshot from even a pistol will always instakill any mob that isnt a tank

Hell, why dont we just add auto-aim, crosshairs, instaheal kits, unlimited ammo piles, grenades capable of locking down whole areas and mounted guns and turrets capable of killing anything instantly that crosses their path

Grow up, "Logical" thinking in a dark, scary, locked-in labratory spawning hundreds of THOUSANDS of clones doesnt mean "hide in one area and pray they dont find me" it means "i should be looking for supplies to keep going and watching my back and flanks for ambushes - i have a job to do"

you're supposed to play the part of a mercenary, not a scared little schoolgirl afraid of getting a little blood on your skirt

Real men set traps, create diversions, and make enemies do what they want them to do, while never standing still and potentially being ambushed to death by a random husk or something because camping in that corner down a long hall with every door welded and a dozen pipes seemed smart at the time

If you dont like KF's method of spawning zombies on you incessantly to keep you moving and fighting for your life, either play beginner or go play Left4Failure, it'll probably fit you better
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I DONT CAMP AND I HATE CAMPING. I said it many many times. At least I can still solo suicidal most of the map after these cheap spawning starts to happen.
Visible spawning KILLS the mood of play killing floor, that's the POINT. If you like supprise to a degree that you think anything can be done, why dont spawn all the fps, scrakes, sirens of that wave at the same time beside you right after the wave starts? Why dont make them randomly dodge your bullets? Why dont make them able to melee you 10 feet away? That should be much more "supprise" for you.
However, these ways SUCKS because they dont make sense, each map is an area that zeds are made or experimented (depends on the story of that map). So they SHOULD NOT spawn together at the same spot. They only have short hands, so they SHOULD NOT be able to melee you from 10 feet away. They are not Neo in Matrix, so they SHOULD NOT dodge bullets. See the "logic"? May be you really think these are good ideas as you dont give a damn to kf should be logical and think the game should be full of supprise ONLY?

Playing a game should not just focus on graphics, gameplay, story, etc. We should focus ALL the factors. Making a game with supprise but totally dont make any sense just make the game sucks.
 
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#53
Actually I start to doubt about is that "user" really played suicidal much or really "skilled" like he said he was.
When people tried to ask for a video to proof as he said it is easy to avoid Gorefasts instan-hiting players, he done it on beginner. HOW does the tactic worked the same way on beginner and suicidal!? In beginner Gorefasts appears in small groups, in suicidal they appear in packs. And he just keeps saying these spawning can keep player "moving". But is it real? I think no, most of the server I played people are still camping at some spots without spawning points. If you really try to camp, will you choose a spot that zeds can spawn!? Any conscious player will not do so.
SO, this spawning cant keep players moving, instead, this just make those player who are actually moving cannot survive.
And, at least on solo, this spawning makes things much easier as you know they WILL spawn at the closest "point" that you cant see. So you can make most of the zeds spawn at one area of the map. Run away and over 90% of zeds are behind you. What I usually die before patch is I keep moving but sometimes zeds divided into 2 big groups and corner me to death. But now, once I found which area has the most spawning point, I go there before the wave starts, and most of the zeds is spawned near me, when I leave that area, things is getting much much more easier.
 
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#55
This happens to me in West London. We go in the Tunnel and 1 sharp and support on one end. 1 sharp and commando other end. We thought we had both sides covered, but we do get spawns behind us inside the tunnel. Which is a little difficult when you have a few husks spawn in front also. Oh well...
 
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#56
A friend and I noticed the spawning change almost immediately after the update, and we still don't like it. Some are saying that it encourages people to move around, but I don't think so. As you keep moving, the specimens keep 'porting around you. Like it or not, you are constantly surrounded. Pre-patch there was always that "Well, I've cleared the area to my left. If things take a turn for the worse on my right, I'll head left." Now, thinking like that will get you killed. As you move ahead, you are never moving to safety. Your situation stays the same, no matter where you go. If things have gotten out of hand and you need some distance to mount a counterattack, you're out of luck.

I'm with the crowd that believes this is not the way to increase the difficulty of Killing Floor. I'd prefer an increase in the number of specimens per wave. An increase that would force players, no matter their perk, to utilize their knife and pistol whenever they can, for if they don't, they'll run out of their main weapons ammunition long before the wave ends. You know, sorta like how Firebug is now. But that's another issue.
 
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#57
Zerethon said:
Real men set traps, create diversions, and make enemies do what they want them to do, while never standing still and potentially being ambushed to death by a random husk or something because camping in that corner down a long hall with every door welded and a dozen pipes seemed smart at the time
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lol, are you serious? let me just boobytrap this doorway here, set some tripwire on the stairs, maybe put some punji sticks in a hole for them to fall into. plus, your "logical thinking in a dark, scary place" line is a joke... i would take some heavy weapons and lock myself in a safe room WAY WAY WAY before i take that same weapon and go running around the hallways... :rolleyes:

sorry dude but why are you sticking up for this? it has practically broken the gaming experience for me. it's maddeningly frustrating when you feel like you have your back covered and zombies spawn inside of that safe area. it's not to make the game harder, it's a design problem.

they give you a gun to weld with to keep certain doors closed and try and make your character safe, why would they allow zombies to spawn inside of said locked room? it's not right. the whole point of the game is to try and stay safe until you can get to the trader between waves. it's not a deathmatch where you sprint around the map killing everything.

it was super fun to protect a safe area with 5 other players, but trying to run down corridors and survive with 5 people is almost impossible. i haven't seen a map completion on hard or suicidal since the last update, and it's not because the game got harder, it's because of a coding problem

i'll agree with most before me and say that this has practically broken the gameplay...
 
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#58
Reminds me of the time a few weeks ago where I was in one of the later waves of Biotics Lab and our group got split in two on our way back to the U weld. They weren't that far ahead, but my half was running a little behind so the next wave started just before we turned the last corner and a dozen zeds spawned between us. Makes perfect sense. :confused:
 
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#59
kkmmnn said:
lol, are you serious? let me just boobytrap this doorway here, set some tripwire on the stairs, maybe put some punji sticks in a hole for them to fall into. plus, your "logical thinking in a dark, scary place" line is a joke... i would take some heavy weapons and lock myself in a safe room WAY WAY WAY before i take that same weapon and go running around the hallways... :rolleyes:

sorry dude but why are you sticking up for this? it has practically broken the gaming experience for me. it's maddeningly frustrating when you feel like you have your back covered and zombies spawn inside of that safe area. it's not to make the game harder, it's a design problem.

they give you a gun to weld with to keep certain doors closed and try and make your character safe, why would they allow zombies to spawn inside of said locked room? it's not right. the whole point of the game is to try and stay safe until you can get to the trader between waves. it's not a deathmatch where you sprint around the map killing everything.

it was super fun to protect a safe area with 5 other players, but trying to run down corridors and survive with 5 people is almost impossible. i haven't seen a map completion on hard or suicidal since the last update, and it's not because the game got harder, it's because of a coding problem

i'll agree with most before me and say that this has practically broken the gameplay...
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1. No, I'm not being overly serious, i'm the guy that runs around with a katana/chainsaw and gets everything after him while killing weak crap (Gores, clots, Sirens) so my team has an easier time conserving ammo during a wave, i'm also typically the guy to take care of the "Teleporting" ZED's and get them off peoples asses. big deal, if i die, i respawn with armor and my chainsaw, and a katana is only 300creds, I'm terribly worried:rolleyes:

2. I'm sticking up for this because i LIKE it, notice how none of the outspoken suicidal players are here b******g about it? it doesn't faze us, we just jump a little, wipe them out, and move on, just learn to use Voice and you're golden

3. Yeah, they gave you a teeny *** welder, big deal, if they wanted you to be perfectly safe while using it the patty wouldn't be allowed to teleport and ZED's would be forced to spawn on the opposite side of the map, and things like the husk and FP wouldn't exist because they are designed to wreck hallway/door camping

I mean, what are people going to do when FP's cant be one-hit anymore? they're going to die, a lot, thank god i carry my barbecue grill

We've completed 6 person suicidal on both normal and my Hellfire game mutators, it's not hard for competent players to keep on the move with a good medic and demo, we had 2 commandos, a firebug, and me Zerking (normal game, no mut)

read that again, 1medic 1demo 2commando 1firebug 1zerker, no sharpshooters, And we survived long-game suicidal on Wyre of all maps

How? constant movement, pipe-bomb door traps, firebug AOE Madness and the commandos just tore up everything we didnt hack, burn, or blow to bits like human grinders with AK's

Amazing what all 6 people having working voicechat can do
 
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#60
kkmmnn said:
i haven't seen a map completion on hard or suicidal since the last update, and it's not because the game got harder, it's because of a coding problem

i'll agree with most before me and say that this has practically broken the gameplay...
Click to expand...

I'm not going to get involved in this discussion too much but the gameplay isn't as broken as most people are making it seem. I finish games on hard (on stock maps) all the time. Yes, the spawning is annoying but it's not that difficult.

And that's all I have to say about that.
 
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