This is a great idea and far better than the current system. Japanese were known to hide away behind enemy lines; it was one of their tactics, no idea why it was implemented in the first place.
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RS team, please consider altering the combat zone warning.
- Thread starter Jerren
- Start date
I had messages after an objective was taken telling "Fall back the area is taken" and while playtest people reacted annoyed and said we can do without the message. I added delays in the spawnprotection up to 40 to 50 seconds and temp spawns for attackers. So in the delay time as defender you could fall back or fight almost a minute without spawnprotection..... Its seems nobody ever noticed.
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I had messages after an objective was taken telling "Fall back the area is taken" and while playtest people reacted annoyed and said we can do without the message. I added delays in the spawnprotection up to 40 to 50 seconds and temp spawns for attackers. So in the delay time as defender you could fall back or fight almost a minute without spawnprotection..... Its seems nobody ever noticed.
First of all, you know I hate the RSODs...
But, a message like that "Fall back the area is taken" altered to "Orders to fall back the area is taken" might seem more like a command and a warning and really isn't so bad (if not in the middle of the screen).
Personally, I would prefer a message (like that) because if you are caught up in combat, its a friendly yet authoritative reminder to get your butt out of there.
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Moe, to be honest sometimes I dont think any message will work.
Hopping on an random game I noticed the overall player has no clue
whats going on. You tell them in a polite way what to do no response.
You ask for support to defend an objective no response. Its not a language
thing its more people are playing their own game and dont mind if they win or loose.
Hopping on an random game I noticed the overall player has no clue
whats going on. You tell them in a polite way what to do no response.
You ask for support to defend an objective no response. Its not a language
thing its more people are playing their own game and dont mind if they win or loose.
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Supporting this one really hard. It annoys me when I try to flank the enemy and cut their advance towards the objective, they finally take it and I'm pretty much dead.
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Protected areas zone are very annoying and should be modified.
Also the time set for a tank to escape should be expand....you always end up blowing yourself...
Also the time set for a tank to escape should be expand....you always end up blowing yourself...
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+1 to the OP, im so much annoyed of this message.
1) Because when Im protecting the cap-zone my objective is protecting it from invading enemies but suddenly this message pops up and forces me to fall back and I probably will get shot dead.
2) Because when a tank camps in spawn protected areas especially when its a T34 and facing forward then as an Anti-Tank soldier or an Engineer I dont have a chance to blow it up because I cant sneak to there and AT-Rifle wont work on T34 if its facing forward, unless it decides to move through combat area zone and turn its side.
Im making a video about this.
1) Because when Im protecting the cap-zone my objective is protecting it from invading enemies but suddenly this message pops up and forces me to fall back and I probably will get shot dead.
2) Because when a tank camps in spawn protected areas especially when its a T34 and facing forward then as an Anti-Tank soldier or an Engineer I dont have a chance to blow it up because I cant sneak to there and AT-Rifle wont work on T34 if its facing forward, unless it decides to move through combat area zone and turn its side.
Im making a video about this.
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I dont know why Tripwire has ignored this issue for so long. Surely, the "cannot prone here" problem is less of a priority than this is. Hanto is an example of horrible spawn protection.
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if this was the case I'd just camp radios and shoot TLs in the head with silenced nagant... for lulz
currently the only map I can do that on is fallenfighters
currently the only map I can do that on is fallenfighters
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Maps are small enough
Maps are small enough
well the maps are small enough if you wanna play with 64 players so why even make it smaller ? theres no feel of freedom in Ro2 maps and spawn killing is annoying yes, but cant you just make recently spawned players invincible for 5 seconds and + the killcam that still exists you wont have some permanent spawn killers.
Maps are small enough
well the maps are small enough if you wanna play with 64 players so why even make it smaller ? theres no feel of freedom in Ro2 maps and spawn killing is annoying yes, but cant you just make recently spawned players invincible for 5 seconds and + the killcam that still exists you wont have some permanent spawn killers.
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This is sort of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.
If we do not push players back at some point, they will be sitting in spawn zones of the other team.
I'm going to plays devils advocate here.
So, let us say we are at that point. How do we handle it. Do we let them spawn kill with impunity? Do we not allow them to kill players who have spawned, and instead allow them to die while their bullets do nothing?
Because do you know what players hate worse than being forced to move? Being spawn camped. I would love to see what the communities thoughts are on how to handle this (there may be some in this thread but I have missed them).
If we do not push players back at some point, they will be sitting in spawn zones of the other team.
I'm going to plays devils advocate here.
So, let us say we are at that point. How do we handle it. Do we let them spawn kill with impunity? Do we not allow them to kill players who have spawned, and instead allow them to die while their bullets do nothing?
Because do you know what players hate worse than being forced to move? Being spawn camped. I would love to see what the communities thoughts are on how to handle this (there may be some in this thread but I have missed them).
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Sorry to restate my opinion on this, but since you ask: I think the issue is not the protection system itself, I think the issue is that the protection system kicks in way to often and is thus intrusive. And I think the reason the system kicks in way too often is that spawns are too close to cap points. My personal opinion is also that further spawn points allow for more interesting approaches to the combat (note: spawn time can be reduced to compensate if deemed necessary, but for me it's not necessary).
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Bigger maps + 251/UC = Problem solved - in RO2.
It's just silly to see IJA soldiers retreating (-> getting gunned down by the spawning enemy/guys who just captured. It's imo more effective to simply pull a grenade and die with honor! (you respawn in ~20sec anyway)). "Just" move the attacker & defender spawns a bit further away from the capzone, let them spawn faster and/or increase the map time.
It's just silly to see IJA soldiers retreating (-> getting gunned down by the spawning enemy/guys who just captured. It's imo more effective to simply pull a grenade and die with honor! (you respawn in ~20sec anyway)). "Just" move the attacker & defender spawns a bit further away from the capzone, let them spawn faster and/or increase the map time.
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This ^. Pull back those spawn zones in combination with longer warning time. You don't have to put a countdown timer on the HUD but give enough time to fall back, or die trying.
Alternatively, allow (many) points to be capped back. I would very much like to see that. That would make the gameplay more of a struggle instead of a one way smear.
The combat zone warning in it's current state makes it a bad thing to defend till the end. Suddenly dead with no honor except a new wait to spawn period.
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i understand the design decision behind the "limited combat zone" that centers around the current objectives, moves spawn points closer to them while disallowing anyone to get close enough to camp spawn points (well, not really but in theory)
the issue is that this inherently limits the freedom of movement, being able to flank and generally play smarter while promoting, or rather severely limiting everything else except being shoved into chokepoints and respawning somewhere close so you can repeat once you die. the already small maps are also even smaller since lots of potential flanks become "out of bounds".
the other big problem is that it creates a lot of really frustrating scenarios, from the infamous "what? you were defending a capture point? well you have 15 seconds to get from your cover and run away across a flat land with no cover from 20 enemies who just captured the point, otherwise you'll die as a deserter", to trying to shoot someone while your vision suddenly turns all red because you made a sidestep into restricted zone (example being trying to take back B as defenders in rakowice), or stuff like a russian tank parking on east street next to D on pavlovs, being protected by "spawn protection" against AT class who tries to get in range of AT grenade/satchel.
remove the "dynamic" combat zones and make the spawn protection limited to only the furthest spawn point (= starting point of attackers, last objective spawn for defenders) and allow anyone to spawn there during the whole game, regardless the current objective state.
basically, it would work like a "safe point" while the current objective-dependent spawns would work more akin to the squad leader spawns. ie: you're trading being closer to the battlefied for the lack of spawn protection.
you avoid spawn killing by giving players more spawn points if it turns out that they are being camped. the spawn camper dies really quickly when people have an option to actually get out of spawn, so they'll just pick a different one and very quickly solve the issue themselves.
to make it more refined, decrease the "safe spawn point" spawn time (half, maybe even instant) so people don't need to wait 20 seconds in addition to spawning further from the action and on longer maps like bridges (although i don't think that map has even spawn protection issues), let people use spawn points that would only "unlock" later on in the game (so there's more choice than "being spawn killed in close spawn" and "losing few objectives because i wasn't able to spawn close enough")
the issue is that this inherently limits the freedom of movement, being able to flank and generally play smarter while promoting, or rather severely limiting everything else except being shoved into chokepoints and respawning somewhere close so you can repeat once you die. the already small maps are also even smaller since lots of potential flanks become "out of bounds".
the other big problem is that it creates a lot of really frustrating scenarios, from the infamous "what? you were defending a capture point? well you have 15 seconds to get from your cover and run away across a flat land with no cover from 20 enemies who just captured the point, otherwise you'll die as a deserter", to trying to shoot someone while your vision suddenly turns all red because you made a sidestep into restricted zone (example being trying to take back B as defenders in rakowice), or stuff like a russian tank parking on east street next to D on pavlovs, being protected by "spawn protection" against AT class who tries to get in range of AT grenade/satchel.
remove the "dynamic" combat zones and make the spawn protection limited to only the furthest spawn point (= starting point of attackers, last objective spawn for defenders) and allow anyone to spawn there during the whole game, regardless the current objective state.
basically, it would work like a "safe point" while the current objective-dependent spawns would work more akin to the squad leader spawns. ie: you're trading being closer to the battlefied for the lack of spawn protection.
you avoid spawn killing by giving players more spawn points if it turns out that they are being camped. the spawn camper dies really quickly when people have an option to actually get out of spawn, so they'll just pick a different one and very quickly solve the issue themselves.
to make it more refined, decrease the "safe spawn point" spawn time (half, maybe even instant) so people don't need to wait 20 seconds in addition to spawning further from the action and on longer maps like bridges (although i don't think that map has even spawn protection issues), let people use spawn points that would only "unlock" later on in the game (so there's more choice than "being spawn killed in close spawn" and "losing few objectives because i wasn't able to spawn close enough")
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