Beta Map RO-TractorWorks_beta3 with 45mm

[Quietus]

I really like the feel of this beta. Just played 2 really tough rounds as a German, and as you predicted, the fight was a prolonged struggle for the Admin building. It came close a couple of times, but the Russians managed to pull out of it with only one objective left (both rounds) to regain most of the building, and they were usually outnumbered by at least one or two players.

Textures look nice, I most get really good frames. The initial battle out of the first German spawn is a really nice addition, and really tough if the Russians hold long enough to bring up a T-34. That one tank can really wreak havoc on the Germans if not taken care of. The new basement addition is nice, in that it adds more flanking opportunites for both sides.

Still so far (to me anyway), it seems the Russians are winning about 70% of the time. I don't see the Germans win very often when the server is full.

I can't comment precisely on beta3 but on beta2 Germans with skilled players in key roles (sniper, tankers, squad leader.....actually the more skilled players in ALL roles the better ) can win consistently. Problem of course is when you get new guys playing that don't amount to much more than a bullet sponge. Success is heavily dependant on skilled German players.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

I can't comment precisely on beta3 but on beta2 Germans with skilled players in key roles (sniper, tankers, squad leader.....actually the more skilled players in ALL roles the better ) can win consistently. Problem of course is when you get new guys playing that don't amount to much more than a bullet sponge. Success is heavily dependant on skilled German players.

Well, I can only comment on my experiences. And remember, if you have skilled Germans, you also likely to have skilled Russians...

 

[Quietus]

Well, I can only comment on my experiences. And remember, if you have skilled Germans, you also likely to have skilled Russians...

True, but really it's not as hard as the Germans think it is. Alot of the time if you just mob let's say the admin building with full half tracks & both tanks backing you up you can just storm the Russians. Even if the Russians have good players they still wont be able to fend off such a forcefull assault many times. Germans have to know when the appropriate time is to just "go for it" and quit fighting in piecemeal ineffective fashion.

 

[[FLOT]airborne]

Great improvements/upgrades to this version of the map! Beta3 now is up and running on the FLOT armor server as well. The textures and atmosphere in this version are even better...great job, and good luck with this one in the contest....
Of course, am partial to Zhitomir as well, so also wishing Drecks good luck....

 

[bystander]

I've played many rounds from both sides, generally with a bunch of other AHZ guys on teamspeak. While difficult, we're usually always able to win as German. As Russian we can generally hold the opposition at the Main Gate. Coordination wins - exactly how a map should work.

 

[V.Grossman]

Great job SLYK (once again,you are the best mapper imho)and good luck with the map contest(YOU ARE SURE THE 1ST PRIZE WINNER M8)

 

[Slyk]

That remains to be seen, Grossman. I'm not counting any silicon chips just yet. I've said it many times, I don't think the map has a great chance. I doubt many judges will find it appeals to their standard of what is a general balanced/accessible map for the masses. Too many objectives and lots of teamwork required. But, I made a project that I wanted...which is still not going to be as complete as I wished. Either way, I am very happy with it and think it is my best work to date. That's enough for me. I am glad you and some other players enjoy it. That certainly helps keep the motivation going.

I have corrected a couple oversights on the terrain in the southcommons and apparently you can launch a tank fairly high off of the overturned trolly. Rather amusing. I guess I could just put in ramps. Obviously we missed something on the custom model setting. Still learning.

I expect a _beta4 mid-week that will be out for a couple weeks until I can decide whether I expand the admin building to it's actual height etc. and fix any other issues/bugs that come up.

 

[aktionman]

A small suggestion possibly squeezed in for beta4: the AT gun hit indicator shows a tank symbol. Perhaps there could be one with a AT gun icon?

A question: I'm not sure of this, but do the AT guns respawn after each round? The dragon's teeth seem to and have to be blown up again, but not so with the AT guns?

 

[Drude]

Great update, I hope you win the contest!

 

[Nestor Makhno]

It's coming along rapidly - I dread to think how many hours you are putting into this. As ever, I am in awe of your commitment to this project.

A few points:

The apartments lend themselves to soldiers with SMG's playing Tom & Jerry running in circles around the ground floor. Not sure if this is good or bad - jury is still out.

Some of the lighter coloured buildings near the start have huge visible stretches of plain flat white texture on their rear and sides.

You got my PM about the use of the terrain textures - hopefully that will help overcome the 'lo-res' grass texture problem.

I am glad you decided this will not be ready in time for the 31st deadline and think it would be a greater contribution to the community now that you are going to take the time over the coming weeks to get the balance right at all stages of the map and tweak the look of it.

 

[Slyk]

Comments inside:

It's coming along rapidly - I dread to think how many hours you are putting into this. As ever, I am in awe of your commitment to this project.
- I always say that I am going to log my hours. Still haven't but this is the biggest ever, easily. I thought Berezina took a lot of time. HA!

A few points:

The apartments lend themselves to soldiers with SMG's playing Tom & Jerry running in circles around the ground floor. Not sure if this is good or bad - jury is still out.
- I am trying to figure out why it seems the AIScript works one round and not the next on the apartments. It is set to run 120 seconds and then move the spawns back to the admin, as in prior betas. The fight here is too long and just not good or the way I want it. Still investigating this. As it stands now, the Germans need to take the commons first to move the Russian spawns out of the apartments.

Some of the lighter coloured buildings near the start have huge visible stretches of plain flat white texture on their rear and sides.
- The white brick or the static mesh apartments??

You got my PM about the use of the terrain textures - hopefully that will help overcome the 'lo-res' grass texture problem.
- Yet to try that as I think the 6x scaling isn't too bad right now but if I get the time, I'll try the suggestion.

I am glad you decided this will not be ready in time for the 31st deadline and think it would be a greater contribution to the community now that you are going to take the time over the coming weeks to get the balance right at all stages of the map and tweak the look of it.
- I will be entering it. Sorry if I misled you there. I just did not have time to redo the admin building (adding two floors, retexture work) nor to remake the nortwest apartment building to match Russ's photos. I'm ok with them for now but would like to tweak them. I think it would be a two hour job for the admin but that would probably translate into 8 and the extra FPS hits due to adding more brushwork isn't worth it this late in the dev. cycle with the deadline looming.

Upcoming changes/answers:
- AT guns. I published a known bug list at the top of this thread. We had them blowing up with satchels but through various versions we ended up with that turned off. We plan to implement that asap along with other enhancements. We plan to release the AT gun as it's own package where we can upgrade it along the way with specific releases.
- AT guns2: The guns respawn every map load/round. All but one are set to 'random' so you never know what you will get 50/50 per gun. ONe round last night we had ALL of them. The next barely half. It is as dynamic as we can make them now.
- Russian reinforcements: Up 50
- German reinforcements: Down 50
- A few leafy trees in the commons area
- Second trolly car on the west edge of main commons. Enterable.
- Fixed apartment AIscript/timer/thingy. I think instead of making it 'event' driven, I may end up setting it to kickoff with round start and run down for 3 minutes. This may prevent the Russians from digging in too far forward and wasting reinforcements.

 

[smokeythebear]

- Fixed apartment AIscript/timer/thingy. I think instead of making it 'event' driven, I may end up setting it to kickoff with round start and run down for 3 minutes. This may prevent the Russians from digging in too far forward and wasting reinforcements.

I was about to say, sometimes the russians are *trapped* in the apartments and get thier reinforcements cut down very quickly. I'm guessing that would fix it though?

 

[Slyk]

I altered the spawn logic/scripts. The Russian now spawn 'forward' for thirty seconds, then they have a four minute window to spawn at the Apartments. After that OR if the Germans cap either the West Commons or Apartments, the Russians spawn back at the Admin, west lobby. This should save 10% of so reinforcements.

What I am still seeing and hearing is that Russian players continue to run forward to fight over lost objectives, especially late in the battle. For the love of your team, stay in the admin or gate! The hectic defense can be a lot of fun, putting out fires north, south, first floor, second, etc.

 

[Zuberlan]

You have to realize that people simply won't stay back and defend but would rather attack and attack, wasting reinforcements for the rest of the team. You just have to counter this public play style by giving more reinforcements to them. Those changes you posted though would help the Russians significantly and maybe will make it so they run out of reinforcements with only 30 seconds left rather than when they have a whole 4 mins left.

 

[V.Grossman]

I've said it many times, I don't think the map has a great chance. I doubt many judges will find it appeals to their standard of what is a general balanced/accessible map for the masses. Too many objectives and lots of teamwork required. But, I made a project that I wanted...which is still not going to be as complete as I wished. Either way, I am very happy with it and think it is my best work to date. That's enough for me. I am glad you and some other players enjoy it. That certainly helps keep the motivation going.

For me Slyk you are already a winner you did a project that you wanted,that promotes teamwork,added AT gun,you implemented historical true suroundings etc etc etc (the list could be very long you know that)
You gave us THE BEST MAP THAT THERE IS for RO
It is a battlefield m8 not a map and i love to the last inch.
(i know i am am a bit overentusiastic but thats me)

 

[Slyk]

Zuberlan: You are correct about public play. It does seem the trend needs to be toward nearly 1-1 reinforcements to counter the players that don't want to work together or run around over naked ground charging tanks with their skirts pulled over their heads. Sad, isn't it? It has been frustrating to see that in some maps but at the same time there have been some amazingly tight and tense battles trying to hold out. I would almost prefer to knock five minutes off of the clock compared to giving the Russians more bodies to throw away. Either way, a team that communicates can win easily over the other. And nothing beats a German assault that holds one flank down while the bulk of the team hits the other extreme flank, rolling up the defense right through the admin. On the other side, the Russian defense for the gate can be just silly intense with halftracks charing, tanks chucking HE, both sides throwing grenades and satchels through windows. Mayhem!

Ah. Well. I guess it comes down to the team you have around you. As it should in my opinion. That's what I like to do with my maps, encourage if not require the team to do things to help the cause.

 

[Cnnbs]

Plane sounds are irritating.Maybe you should do something about it
Is it possible to add dead bodies as static objects....It would be really nice seeing dead soldiers around or using them for cover or even maybe civillian bodies.

 

[Slyk]

Cnnbs: Yeah, those planes get to ya! I was trying to get a nice Stuka dive bomber loop going with a following bomb blast but time and resources. I have the files, just not assembled. I took the existing sounds and more or less doubled their loop times. Mostly I have been told "less planes, more arty!".

 

[Zuberlan]

Zuberlan: You are correct about public play. It does seem the trend needs to be toward nearly 1-1 reinforcements to counter the players that don't want to work together or run around over naked ground charging tanks with their skirts pulled over their heads. Sad, isn't it? It has been frustrating to see that in some maps but at the same time there have been some amazingly tight and tense battles trying to hold out. I would almost prefer to knock five minutes off of the clock compared to giving the Russians more bodies to throw away. Either way, a team that communicates can win easily over the other. And nothing beats a German assault that holds one flank down while the bulk of the team hits the other extreme flank, rolling up the defense right through the admin. On the other side, the Russian defense for the gate can be just silly intense with halftracks charing, tanks chucking HE, both sides throwing grenades and satchels through windows. Mayhem!

Ah. Well. I guess it comes down to the team you have around you. As it should in my opinion. That's what I like to do with my maps, encourage if not require the team to do things to help the cause.

I would have to agree that changing the time from 45 minutes to 40 minutes would be a lot better with the current reinforcement level on Beta 3 than adding more bodies for the Russians to throw away. If that is the case 40 minutes would be perfect for the number of reinforcements you give the Russians right now. It is better to have a shorter time limit anyway as the judges for Phase 2 will probably appreciate it.

 

[JAKL]

I would have to agree that changing the time from 45 minutes to 40 minutes would be a lot better with the current reinforcement level on Beta 3 than adding more bodies for the Russians to throw away. If that is the case 40 minutes would be perfect for the number of reinforcements you give the Russians right now. It is better to have a shorter time limit anyway as the judges for Phase 2 will probably appreciate it.

I'd have to agree. 45 minutes seems too long but 40 minutes would be a good sweat spot as it stands now reinforcements are usually running out at about the 8 minute mark. Lowering it to 40 with the 50 extra bodies might be perfect.