That BUG...... has nothing to do with Armored Beasts....
If the hits had no effect, I'd agree... if they had any damaging effect... its working as designed.
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Release ArmoredBeasts 2.06 beta (update)
- Thread starter Amizaur
- Start date
If the hits had no effect, I'd agree... if they had any damaging effect... its working as designed.
In normal RO it goes away when you switch from AP to HE or HE to AP. But nothing will fix it this time. There were like 3-4 people reporting this at FK's #4 recently.
Keystone, I'm not a noob at tanking in RO. I know that a T-34/76 should kill a Tiger by shooting the side, not front. PzIVF/2 should be a toast after one or more shots. Five penetrated (I know when it penetrates) shots to the REAR (yes, it's still 20mm) should do quite some damage.
I killed 3 Tigers in a row (the same T-34/76) in Orel this morning, always side one shots.
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Panzer IV H bug
Panzer IV H bug
Ok, I tried it offline on a shooting range map.
Nearly every second (once even 6 hits in a row with the KV1-S at ranges it could not even penetrate --> 400 up) shot that hit the Panzer IV H on the front was reported as rear hull hit and inflicted damage or killed the tank right away. This does not happen that often against the Panzer IV F2.
Panzer IV H bug
Ok, I tried it offline on a shooting range map.
Nearly every second (once even 6 hits in a row with the KV1-S at ranges it could not even penetrate --> 400 up) shot that hit the Panzer IV H on the front was reported as rear hull hit and inflicted damage or killed the tank right away. This does not happen that often against the Panzer IV F2.
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Never hapend to me 
but doesnt the ausf H have thicker armor than the ausf F.
Heres the site http://www.tarrif.net/cgi/production/vs_vehicles.php I dont realy know how trustworthy it is, but it shows that Pz Ausf H has 80mm of front armor, compared to Pz Ausf F or F/2 that have 50mm of front armor.
but doesnt the ausf H have thicker armor than the ausf F.Heres the site http://www.tarrif.net/cgi/production/vs_vehicles.php I dont realy know how trustworthy it is, but it shows that Pz Ausf H has 80mm of front armor, compared to Pz Ausf F or F/2 that have 50mm of front armor.
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Yes it has, the problem though is that many shots at the front are detected as rear shots where it only has 20 mm armor. Try it yourself in the testmap that Quietus released (look for a thread AB 2.065) and shoot at the Pz IVH there.
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Yes there is a bug where you shoot the front of a tank yet it registers that you hit the rear hull (or vice versa). The bug happens with most tanks (if not all). There are some kinks but hopefully when Amizaur gets well he'll fix it.
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But only with some tanks, especially with the PIV H what I tested.
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I tried your fix... nothing. If you get out of your tank and then get back in, the Turret no longer reloads. That is the DEAD TURRET bug... it was intro'ed with the last update. Hopefully, it'll be addressed in the next update.
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Only passing by...
The bug with front hits detected as rear hits (or similar) is there from the beginning of the mod, only now you see it because of the debug messages. And it most probably has nothing to do with AB - happens in stock game as well. Only you don't see it because the stock game doesn't inform you what part you hit...
I seen this from the very beginning of the work on the mod - after I enabled debug features in stock RO code and tried to understand how it works. I was shooting at the front of the tank, the debug lines showing hit point were generated on rear armor - and that was before I made any changes to the code...
I could not fix it then, and it probably happens in stock game as well (maybe that's how people get "impossible" kills like a Panther from T-34/85 over 100m) so I left it then untill I'm educated enough to try to fix it. Either it could be fixed, and should be fixed in stock game too then, or it could not and we have to live with it..,
Anyway I planned to make in the future a simple check in the penetration code, that would see if the rear hit was possible at all (obviously it's not possible to hit rear armor if the shell is coming from the frontal 180deg) and then... well at least use armor value of the side the shell came from - so frontal in most cases. (Or maybe try to do another trace and detect the hit again ? Not sure yet.) This change should improve situation even if the real collision detection problem can not be resolved.
I even thought about making a "dummy" mod, with absolutely stock code and only original build-in debug features enabled. Then we could easily verify if some bugs are happening in stock game as well, only it's impossible to notice them.
The "dead turret bug" - don't know what can cause that. When I return to work I could remove the "reload on key" code modification and you see if it shows then or not. I hope this would be a bug-free version that could be used as others-mod codebase.
Personally never experieced that (gun reload not working). Few times experieced "gun fire not working" (firing from MG or ubuttoning and firing helped then) but never any problems with reload, other than those rarely showing in stock game. Probably it fixable, because the infantry weapons reloads on key without any problems... But I have hard time fighting with server-client comm/replication problems, as I'm not Unreal coder... But I'll try to locate it when I return to work. "In normal RO it goes away when you switch from AP to HE or HE to AP." - very valuable, such sort of info often leads to finding of the bug cause. Anyway it would be great help if a real coder could take a look at my reload code.
BTW if talking about dummy mods, some time ago I made for myself also a test "dummy" infantry weapons mod, with only the projectile spread removed, I used it to measure the original RO infantry weapons ballistics (and was very disapointed by the results).
Maybe I should release it too, so you can test the weapons more easily and see yourself the ballistic drop of various weapons (about twice of what is written in RO Tactical Guide). I guess I'm showing again my attitude against TWI, by just writing this ;-)
Another version of this mut after restoring the spread and removing the recoil and projetile drop (they would fly straight), could be used to see the weapon random spread (also several times higher than should be). IMPO the spread should be set to what weapon specs say (or to 1.5 of that, for example if a PPSh 41 spread was bigger than 150% of book value, the weapon was to be returned for repair). And the needed shot accuracy of auto weapons achieved by regulating the way recoil works. That'sharder than just putting large spread and needs more work to achieve good results, but gives much more realistic results IMO.
I'm not going to do this personally, as I'm not that interested in infantry fight, but it's an idea for people wanting more real infantry weapons. I could help someone who wanted to do this. Well, not today and not tomorrow, but someday... After setting correct weapon parameters and modifying the recoil, this test mut could be became an infantry weapon realism mod... Coding skills not required, only modifications of parameters and testing is needed).
Regards.
The bug with front hits detected as rear hits (or similar) is there from the beginning of the mod, only now you see it because of the debug messages. And it most probably has nothing to do with AB - happens in stock game as well. Only you don't see it because the stock game doesn't inform you what part you hit...
I seen this from the very beginning of the work on the mod - after I enabled debug features in stock RO code and tried to understand how it works. I was shooting at the front of the tank, the debug lines showing hit point were generated on rear armor - and that was before I made any changes to the code...
I could not fix it then, and it probably happens in stock game as well (maybe that's how people get "impossible" kills like a Panther from T-34/85 over 100m) so I left it then untill I'm educated enough to try to fix it. Either it could be fixed, and should be fixed in stock game too then, or it could not and we have to live with it..,
Anyway I planned to make in the future a simple check in the penetration code, that would see if the rear hit was possible at all (obviously it's not possible to hit rear armor if the shell is coming from the frontal 180deg) and then... well at least use armor value of the side the shell came from - so frontal in most cases. (Or maybe try to do another trace and detect the hit again ? Not sure yet.) This change should improve situation even if the real collision detection problem can not be resolved.
I even thought about making a "dummy" mod, with absolutely stock code and only original build-in debug features enabled. Then we could easily verify if some bugs are happening in stock game as well, only it's impossible to notice them.
The "dead turret bug" - don't know what can cause that. When I return to work I could remove the "reload on key" code modification and you see if it shows then or not. I hope this would be a bug-free version that could be used as others-mod codebase.
Personally never experieced that (gun reload not working). Few times experieced "gun fire not working" (firing from MG or ubuttoning and firing helped then) but never any problems with reload, other than those rarely showing in stock game. Probably it fixable, because the infantry weapons reloads on key without any problems... But I have hard time fighting with server-client comm/replication problems, as I'm not Unreal coder... But I'll try to locate it when I return to work. "In normal RO it goes away when you switch from AP to HE or HE to AP." - very valuable, such sort of info often leads to finding of the bug cause. Anyway it would be great help if a real coder could take a look at my reload code.
BTW if talking about dummy mods, some time ago I made for myself also a test "dummy" infantry weapons mod, with only the projectile spread removed, I used it to measure the original RO infantry weapons ballistics (and was very disapointed by the results).
Maybe I should release it too, so you can test the weapons more easily and see yourself the ballistic drop of various weapons (about twice of what is written in RO Tactical Guide). I guess I'm showing again my attitude against TWI, by just writing this ;-)
Another version of this mut after restoring the spread and removing the recoil and projetile drop (they would fly straight), could be used to see the weapon random spread (also several times higher than should be). IMPO the spread should be set to what weapon specs say (or to 1.5 of that, for example if a PPSh 41 spread was bigger than 150% of book value, the weapon was to be returned for repair). And the needed shot accuracy of auto weapons achieved by regulating the way recoil works. That'sharder than just putting large spread and needs more work to achieve good results, but gives much more realistic results IMO.
I'm not going to do this personally, as I'm not that interested in infantry fight, but it's an idea for people wanting more real infantry weapons. I could help someone who wanted to do this. Well, not today and not tomorrow, but someday... After setting correct weapon parameters and modifying the recoil, this test mut could be became an infantry weapon realism mod... Coding skills not required, only modifications of parameters and testing is needed).
Regards.
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Point of information....
Armored Beasts v 2.065 works well with the new update except for one item... the BT-7. The BT-7 performs normally and works well in any case. AB has to be updated with the BT-7 particulars. All other Tanks etc... work fine.
ps; the dead turret bug is fixed in the update.
Armored Beasts v 2.065 works well with the new update except for one item... the BT-7. The BT-7 performs normally and works well in any case. AB has to be updated with the BT-7 particulars. All other Tanks etc... work fine.
ps; the dead turret bug is fixed in the update.
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All custom tanks have to be added to AB as I've said some time before - actually it is not much work.
Tanks and stuff that is not included yet: Welt's tanks, the tanks in Tiger in the Mud iirc, the german T34 in BDJ iirc, the Panzerb
Tanks and stuff that is not included yet: Welt's tanks, the tanks in Tiger in the Mud iirc, the german T34 in BDJ iirc, the Panzerb
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not sure, but maybe the issue with penetrations of bac armor of tank is related to the of penetration itself, like in some mutatros where - i i read - you cannot kill person behind a wall eve if the penetration is enabled (its realted with the distance calculations of collisions). ine example the projectile is probed to rarely and is registered inside the tank so the closest barrier will be a back hull
but, maybe i'm wrong.
another important thing, i noticed AB modifies map settings, for example on Road To Hill Combined there are panzerfausts on the map, and when one of them is picked up (i guess dependant on class), they were mutating to a satchel, so finalizaing the map was easier. it is good and bad, bad cause it may influence other maps where such mutation of panzerfausts were crucial (not sure how it will behave on orschaclearing), but on the other side, the team cooperates in order to secure the very important combat engeneer
but, maybe i'm wrong.
another important thing, i noticed AB modifies map settings, for example on Road To Hill Combined there are panzerfausts on the map, and when one of them is picked up (i guess dependant on class), they were mutating to a satchel, so finalizaing the map was easier. it is good and bad, bad cause it may influence other maps where such mutation of panzerfausts were crucial (not sure how it will behave on orschaclearing), but on the other side, the team cooperates in order to secure the very important combat engeneer
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Now, this is all nice, but can someone make a website or post links with detailed information for each tank armor thickness in each area of the tank, and ammo boxes, engine boxes(if they differ in AB) and specifications where to hit based on gun strength? Stock RO has basic charts but there is very little information on them for AB, since everyone says AB brings armor values to realisitc for the ww2 era, I would like to be able to read what they are for each tank. Not guess. Thanks.
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KV-1? This mod adds KV-1? Ro retail contains only KV-1S and there is a HUGE difference between those 2. Can you explain?
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if one makes a mod page, I will made a detailed tables, pictures ect. and you can put it there then. Generally armor thickness used is what it should be. Just check specs of real tanks. Armor ratings are calculated from this, using current mod penetration formula (posted already too) and modified sometimes to account for armor quality or type.
The KV-1 mentioned is just KV-1 generally. Any version of it can't be killed from PzIVF1 without at least HEAT ammo (and you got recently).
The original RO KV-1S is retained as mod KV-1S. Same 3D model is also present in the mod with specs of normal KV-1 (can remember the model/year now), but have to be placed on map by map designer. Standard KV-1S is always replaced to mod KV-1S. Because the 3D model is from KV-1S. I don't care for accurate models, but most people does...
The work on the mod is suspended for some time, but you just reminded me that I never made a real manual with all the data, armor and penetration tables... maybe I will do this now, in the meantime. Making tables and graphs is actually quite relaxing activity for me
BTW, small offtopic contest - guess an answer to what ancient quest of wargamers ;-) is this text/picture? Some myth is just killed definitely (at least for me)
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/9953/theanswerfortigertigerhtk6.gif
I was looking for this answer from a long time, and just an hour ago I stumbled on it in one of Jentz's books.
The KV-1 mentioned is just KV-1 generally. Any version of it can't be killed from PzIVF1 without at least HEAT ammo (and you got recently)
.The original RO KV-1S is retained as mod KV-1S. Same 3D model is also present in the mod with specs of normal KV-1 (can remember the model/year now), but have to be placed on map by map designer. Standard KV-1S is always replaced to mod KV-1S. Because the 3D model is from KV-1S. I don't care for accurate models, but most people does...
The work on the mod is suspended for some time, but you just reminded me that I never made a real manual with all the data, armor and penetration tables... maybe I will do this now, in the meantime. Making tables and graphs is actually quite relaxing activity for me
BTW, small offtopic contest - guess an answer to what ancient quest of wargamers ;-) is this text/picture?
Some myth is just killed definitely (at least for me) http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/9953/theanswerfortigertigerhtk6.gif
I was looking for this answer from a long time, and just an hour ago I stumbled on it in one of Jentz's books.
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BTW, small offtopic contest - guess an answer to what ancient quest of wargamers ;-) is this text/picture?
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/9953/theanswerfortigertigerhtk6.gif
I was looking for this answer from a long time, and just an hour ago I stumbled on it in one of Jentz's books.
Great find. At last! That ends both the "never ending story" of turret speed and why it is so painfully slow.
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