Poll to change the 5 points resupply !

[MILK]

...So I say- resuppliers should get 1-2 pts for "regular" and 5 if the mgr asked for it. (easily coded I think- the game already marks an mgr in need on the map)

I like this one!

 

[[ODIN]Tor]

I also like the idea that the MG'er has to call out for ammo before anyone can give him:

http://www.redorchestragame.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17976

When it comes to the points, I think 5 points is OK when the MG'er actually needs the ammo. However, you shouldn't be able to give ammo (and get the points) when the MG'er is full, or doesn't call out for it.

 

[Crusher]

it's fine the way it is. I remember in the mod days alot of people didn't even knew about the mg-supply key.

 

[MattyDienhoff]

I don't think it really matters. What I would like to know is, why can people supply me with ammo when I already have as much as I can carry? Say I'm manning an MG42 and have four belts of ammo. (including the one loaded) That's a full load, as much as one can carry, but people still stream past giving me ammo. If I remember correctly: the way it used to be was - you simply didn't have the option to give ammo unless they need it.

This might sound like a non-issue, but it is annoying when you're prone, mostly concealed, ready to put your ambush into action; and a crowd of idiotic teammates start circling around you trying to give you ammo you don't need for extra points and give away your position.

 

[Murphy]

I think the russian MG already works so you can't "resupply" someone if he already has the max. of ammo. Its just the German one that can be resupplied over the limit.
If it wasn't fixed in this patch already it should be fixed in the next one.

 

[LoneSoldier]

"This might sound like a non-issue, but it is annoying when you're prone, mostly concealed, ready to put your ambush into action; and a crowd of idiotic teammates start circling around you trying to give you ammo you don't need for extra points and give away your position"

this is another reason about the 5 points ive seen, people run upto not caring about giving the position away aslong as they get their 5 points

 

[LordKhaine]

But my question still stands: why reduce it at all in the first place?

Because it totally skews the score? The score is never going to be 100% accurate, but it should at least be a relatively accurate way of seeing someones impact on the battlefield. And as such scores for different events should be relative to their worth. And handing an MG ammo is rarely going to help the team as much as 5 kills (though not always).

So in my opinion, as an MG'er myself, 1-2 points is probably best. That said it's not exactly an urgent change.

I do however like the idea of points being based on how much ammo the MG has. If he has no reloads 5 points makes sense, but if he already has a belt spare 2 points, if he had more ammo only 1 point?

 

[Rabid Penguin]

I totally disagree. Imagine the following:

Your section (Australian for squad) machinegunner is laying down suppressing fire, which is allowing the rest of you to move up on an objective. Then the gun runs out of ammo, and the enemy is able to counterattack and completely rout your assault.

This is why keeping the gun in action is important, and why I believe the 5pts for resup should stay.

 

[D3terioNation]

Dont worry about that mate. 5pts for resupply is here to stay!!

 

[Hummer9120]

Your section (Australian for squad) machinegunner is laying down suppressing fire, which is allowing the rest of you to move up on an objective. Then the gun runs out of ammo, and the enemy is able to counterattack and completely rout your assault.

What is this "suppressive fire" that people keep talking about? Who actually gets suppressed by a virtual MG?

It's frustrating to see pubbers aimlessly firing off entire belts and when asked why, respond "I'm keeping their heads down."

No you aren't. You are simply running out of ammo. The only way to truly suppress the enemy is to kill them... which is what a lot of quasi-MGers can't seem to comprehend.

If you are not killing the enemy with every burst, you are failing as an MG. To say otherwise is just self justification for an inability to engage and eliminate targets.

 

[Bogdan]

I think the russian MG already works so you can't "resupply" someone if he already has the max. of ammo. Its just the German one that can be resupplied over the limit.
If it wasn't fixed in this patch already it should be fixed in the next one.

If I remember well, it appears that MG-34 is the sole machinegun which has this problem. The MG-er's avatar bears the "Need ammo" message right after spawning, when his ammo loadout is intact. And it can be resupplied for no reason at all.

Again, if I'm not mistaking, the MG-42 and the Russian DP-28 don't seem to have this issue; the bug affects only the MG-34. By all means, you should be able/allowed to ressuply an MG only if it gets below its maximum ammo loadout.

 

[Funker42]

Personally, I wish they'd get rid of death messages and score boards all together, but I like to hang out with the MGs on defense maps to make sure they are supplied.

I don't really care about the score though....

I think the score board should be hidden until you are in spectator mode waiting for respawn.

So if you kill someone you won't get a message nor will you know for sure if your nade killed that person until you go and check for yourself. And if you die, you've got something to look at to see how well you have done so far.

 

[Funker42]

If you are not killing the enemy with every burst, you are failing as an MG. To say otherwise is just self justification for an inability to engage and eliminate targets.

I would disagree. It isn't as much as suppression is that you get lucky on killing people where they generally show up.

If I'm on a map that I know the enemey will show up on occasion, I will shoot in that window, corner, or allyway just because of dumb luck will usually nail someone.

If the enemy throws smoke to advance, shooting into it will usually nail someone.

You are right, there is no such thing as true suppression in RO, but given high rate of fire and plausible paths will usually kill someone when a rifle man would be unable to get off enough rounds.

Of course even with the rifle, I'll shoot into places were people tend to hang out without actually seeing anyone there. So no... Machine gunners are supposed to take advantage of keeping allot of lead in the air at all times, but they of course should move a bit between reloads to prevent from being rifle bait.

But otherwise... A machine gunner shouldn't just shoot at nothing for no good reason to use up ammo. If you think you see the enemy or suspect he might be there then shoot.

[edit]

Speaking of which, the role of the machine gunner is made easier when the enemy wants to rush attack and the enemy has no concern for cover. Since they have decided that they don't care about suppression then you just shoot them when they are out in the open rather than trying to suppress them before hand. If you are stuck in the middle of the open then you are dead meat to the MG.

 

[Solo4114]

Because it totally skews the score? The score is never going to be 100% accurate, but it should at least be a relatively accurate way of seeing someones impact on the battlefield. And as such scores for different events should be relative to their worth. And handing an MG ammo is rarely going to help the team as much as 5 kills (though not always).

So in my opinion, as an MG'er myself, 1-2 points is probably best. That said it's not exactly an urgent change.

I do however like the idea of points being based on how much ammo the MG has. If he has no reloads 5 points makes sense, but if he already has a belt spare 2 points, if he had more ammo only 1 point?

I guess I just don't care about score enough. I know how important I was in the battle, even if my contribution isn't recognized by some arbitrary point system. That's good enough for me. >shrug<


I see what you're saying, though. If the score is supposed to evidence the relative value of an action, then 5 points for an MG resupply (especially right at the start of the game) is less valuable than killing an enemy in a cap zone.

The thing is, I'm not sure if the score is designed to evidence value of an action. I think the score is designed rather to ENCOURAGE action. The devs know that people are gonna shoot each other, regardless of the number of points they get. On the other hand, people may be far less inclined to get their *** in a cap zone or to resupply the MGer. So, the devs say "Let's entice them with high points. If you get your *** in a cap zone, you get 10 points. If you resupply your MGer, you get 5." That's not a comment on which activity is more valuable for the team, but rather an attempt to change player behavior in-game.

 

[MattyDienhoff]

Well said Solo.

On the suppression issue: I agree it doesn't work the way it does in real-life. It's all too easy for a rifleman to pop up behind sandbags and pop off a single round at a machinegunner. But at the same time I have experienced being pinned down in-game, not very often but it sometimes happens. For example: being stuck, prone, behind low cover which is low enough that if you pop up to a crouch to shoot back you're very exposed.

While survival instinct isn't anywhere near as strong in a game as it is in real-life, I'm still reluctant to move out of cover if I'm taking heavy fire, so suppression does work to an extent.

 

[Hyperion2010]

Scoreboard should go the way of the dodo....

:roll:


Anyway, I think the 5 should stay, but really I dont think it matters that much. Gameplay is ALWAYS better without deathmessages and when you cant see scores.

 

[Athena]

Gameplay is ALWAYS better without deathmessages and when you cant see scores.

BLASPHEMY!

Leave a little fun in the game for the non-totally realism fanatics. Thanks.

 

[Mr._Kong]

sometimes its fun to point whore...
and its not like it effects the game play, so don't really see a need to fix it.