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Poll time: Is KF a horror-themed game?

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Poll time: Is KF a horror-themed game?

  • KF advertised itself as a co-op survival horror, and I want just that.

    Votes: 77 53.8%

  • I love playing a game that is all my favourite ingredients in the same dish, no matter how bizarre.

    Votes: 66 46.2%
  • Total voters
    143
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#61
Azukki said:
Well I can't speak for anyone else, but I like it somewhere in the middle.
Yeah, not voting would be the middle way to go, and that is the option I chose. Earlier, though, you seemed keen on people just voting, instead of posting what particular ways they disagreed with you.
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If they can't be civil, then I can't say I have much interest. Retromenace doesn't seem to agree with me... so what? Power to him for being decent about it.

It may be someone's opinion that the wackiness is what KF needs. It's my opinion that wanting the bizarre, wild-n-crazy mix up of ideas in KF is actually a little crazy and poorly thought out in terms of design.
 
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#63
C_Gibby said:
If it's worth noting, I find that "survival horror" is more of a design philosophy than a very concrete genre.

It's not so much about going RARGH BOO SO SCARY, it's more about creating certain feelings in the gameplay. It's less about making the player feel like they're a badass, but more about making them feel like they're fighting against all odds whilst very soft and vulnerable.

Vulnerability and a touch of atmospheric misery is key. Making things super dark and sprinkling "boo!" sequences isn't, but it helps a bit.

You need a clear horror theme, an atmosphere to reflect it, and you need to create a sense of dread and desperation in the gameplay somehow. Playing KF in 2009 when totally new to the game certainly gave me those feelings.

Dropping late into a game and having to run from fleshpounds while I clutched my 9mm, for example. Or huddling up in a farmhouse, fearing the scrake sawing down the door while we can't hold it much longer. Or running low on ammo on wave 10 when there's still many zeds left and other players are dead or dying.

Those are feelings that are very common in KF (or at least were). An intentional sense of dread and desperation as implied by the given advertisment. Such a goal requires a "world" that reflects it.
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I would agree with your reply in many aspects. Horror is certainly not a definitive genre, as most genre's are defined by gameplay. Horror does not necessarily need to be defined by gameplay, as it's one of the few genre's defined by emotions perceived by the player than mechanics themselves.

As such, it is arguable that one cannot definitively say something is or is not a horror game, as horror and other such emotions are entirely subjective. However, this is a theory most people disagree with, and as such horror games have been expected to hold certain gameplay or design elements. Limited ammunition is a good example of this. While there are many non-horror games that contain limited ammo, a game with spooky looking monsters and limited ammo is almost immediately given the title or "survival horror" regardless of other horror elements.

However, in regards to your rebuttal, it is arguable that any feelings of dread held through the game's gameplay only convey fear for a very limited amount of time. Most players usually switch down to a lower difficulty once they realize the game has a leveling system (this is an assumption, but one I make simply because all 4 of my friends who own the game did this) which removes much of the tension. Killing Floor on lower difficulties is arguably more of a survival shooter with fun weapons (akin to Mass Effect 3 multiplayer) than a horror experience.
And once a player moves up to higher difficulties, they have usually lost all feelings of dread by this point, as they have thoroughly researched the game and mechanics to be as effective as possible. It's hard to be scared of a scrake once you understand how the berzerker's stun-lock mechanics work.

I would also make another reference to how multiplayer ruins immersion, and as such detracts from a horror experience, but I had already explained that in my original post.

However, I would like to clarify that this is not a post condemning KF2 being a more horror themed sequel, if it is. In all honesty, I would be fine with either of the two options presented on the poll (though I do lean more towards letting them do what they want for the sake of greater weapon variety), I just felt that I needed to reply to maintain my position that I do not feel that either Vanilla or Modern KF work as a horror game. Horror themed game, sure ; but I feel most players don't feel scared while blasting away with their favorite guns.
 
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#64
Skell said:
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=94713
something like this?
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That's pretty cool, I didn't know about that one. I think that having something officially supported in the game would be good. I think you'd see more servers running it if it was a built in mode and not just a mod. I don't really care about the stat tweaks necessarily, but basically having a "No DLC" mode would be good if the whacky stuff is all in the DLC.
 
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#65
Lemme just first off say that KF no matter what event or whatever is added, still very much had it's personal breed of macabre and horror in the ascetics. I don't care how much winging happens in some regards, have you SEEN some of the decor in Moonbase or Fright Yard? There's still a sizable amount of gore, grim imagery, and so on, even if the location is more 'fanciful' and 'brighter'.

With that said though, I first joined KF during the first Summer Sideshow. After the carnival moved back out, I ran around the core maps and locations with the original kit and characters, and the game solo can give some of the classic horror vibes, especially with how dickish the spawning system can be.

There's also the fact that there's many 'fridge logic' points that pop up if ya think too hard on the game logic that also, at least in my mind, point that the game never really took too much on the horror aspect seriously. The Scrake being a medic with a chainsaw for an arm, the absurd (and awesome!) overdone brittish accents for the male voicepacks, Stalker's lines and constant 'fanservice' status during events- let's face it, KF is as much horror as the devs want as they like having fun with the ridiculous bits of the horror genre as well. :3

However, we also can't forget that the game also has a few things against the horror atmosphere. First, the more players inevitably added into the mix, the more things start to feel 'safer'. You got people to get your back, after all. And then there's the fact that the game also is pretty heavy on 'gun porn', giving very realish representation of familiar, common firearms, many of which are extremely powerful against the rank and file. Even the fanciful weapons added later, from the Husk Gun to the Z.E.D. Mk2 look and sound interesting, while letting you cut through the zeds madly.

If KF (or KF2) had a single-player storymode? I could picture there being a major horror vibe combined with a gradual shift to a more DOOM style of gameplay, starting out as ragged survivor and eventually turning into a representation of the multiplayer, something along the lines of Doom 3/Resurrection of Evil. However, trying to cry for a fully horror game when the main mode is the multi-player slaughterfest does lead to a bit of a self-determent.

I'd like both, but I rather some of the shades of horror not be the entire focus on development for good shooting and gameplay to allowed to shine.
 
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#66
"Hey TWI, listen to me, this game is all about what I want! I don't care what ideas you have! Keep it the same all year with only bug updates!
What's that? You guys like steampunk? I don't care, I don't like it which therefore should not be allowed! It's not like anyone else enjoys it but you dumb devs!
What's that? You wanna celebrate the holidays with unique cosmetic themes to the "zombies"? Your fired! ALL OF YOU! Holidays are for people who only care for it! You know what? Screw this game and everyone who joined due to the seasonal events, let's start over!"
 
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#68
Skell said:
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=94713http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=94713
something like this?
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gr8 m8 now why isn't such a mutator officially included in the game? I'd like to put that onto a dedi/listen server easily, and not have to worry about the whitelist.

retromenace said:
Horror themed game, sure ; but I feel most players don't feel scared while blasting away with their favorite guns.
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I'll have to make a better response to your effort post later on, im stuffing myself with cornflakes and internet before heading to work.

No, I seriously doubt many players feel scared of the game anymore. That's totally understandable, it happens with everything deemed scary. But what I don't find understandable is using that as an excuse to blow the theme apart, ya feel me?

Curunir said:
Gibby, man, I love you! You are so endearingly hardcore and capable of going to such lengths to make sure KF2 will be so gritty, so dark and so terrifying! It's a noble crusade but on the sidelines it's also almost too hilarious! :D
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Crusader_Gibby
 
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#69
C_Gibby said:
If it doesn't match your personal opinion, it's a useless thread!

I wish somebody told me this before. :rolleyes:

You people need to quit with the whining, condescending attitudes, attacks, and berating and try to have a halfway civil discussion. Trying to state my honest opinion regarding TWI's decision has brought fourth a mixed response, and the most civil people in this thread have been on a similar side to me, or more neutral like Arblarg. Those opposing me have been venomous as possible.

If I dare have a dissenting opinion that doesn't match that of the 2013 crowd, I must be flamebaiting.

While I wait for the rest of you to chill out, I'll be in the garage working on my next DIY project. It's a little go-kart powered by y'alls tears.
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Holy pot meet kettle, Batman. You're the one whining and making a poll in which people can't vote because the option to choose the other viewpoint is one that is worded to make the voter sound unintelligent.

People are posting civil replies to you that are proper counter arguments based objectively yet you still call them subjective and then personally attack them and ask them to be civil. Your whole original post is condescending, comes across as whiny, and is not asked objectively like a proper poll should be. Maybe you should try to be open to the fact that looking at something objectively allows you to view the faults of your own side while also seeing how your side shines. People can take a stand for what they believe is correct while also respecting the other side of the discussion which you do not. You know what you're doing and you're getting the exact response you want, so stop whining.
 
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#70
Puppy had it right. KF is campy horror.
Should TWI re-label the game, yes.
Should they think hard about how they label KF2, yes.

The devs said it themselves "KF is coolism" and that seems to include the wacky things that you just can't stand in the vanilla game Gibby.
So whether you like it or not, KF2 is going to be whatever TWI deems 'coolism' and there isn't much you can do about it.

I agree that there should be a boatload of options as I think all games should have.
However, I don't know how likely that TWI will go the route of splitting game lobbies so purposefully considering the current situation with RO2.

You most definitely did seem very condescending and insulting in your poll wording and OP, you can pass that off as pure opinion but what was the point of putting it there in the first place? It certainly isn't helping your cause, or helping anything other than you getting your rocks off to some responses.
 
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#75
I can't understand why everyone is actually surprised I'd take a very strongly opinionated, stubborn stance. The poll option wasn't actually meant to be rude from my perspective, cos, you know, some people actually do like to have their fave ingredients in the same dish. Some people like to have no surprises in their dish and retain only the few ingredients they trust work together the best.

My reasonably sincere apologies.

Let me explain exactly what it looks like to me when people want Steamy Space Elves. Steamy Space Elves sure are pretty gangsta, you know? Nothing wrong with them by themselves, but in Killing Floor? Do they really fit, aesthetically speaking?

Lets pretend I like unicorns. I surround myself with unicorns. I have unicorn posters and statuettes all over the place. I seek out unicorn feces and snort them like cocaine.

I also like KF. I go and make a bunch of mods related to unicorns. I create unicorn launchers, a map called KF-UnicornForest, and I also create a new zed called the Unipound.

The mod has mixed reception as expected. Then I'm lucky to get noticed by Tripwire, and then the mods get implemented into the core game.

Some people think it's "fun". Others are pissed, and stop playing. Someone makes a thread to get rid of all this stuff in KF2 and reconsider establishing consistency/honesty in the KF-verse. I then see the thread and respond, saying that the OP "hates fun" or is "whining because THEY just don't like unicorns."

And then I get told to go home and snort more horse****, and understandably so.

Because after all:

killing_floor_logo.jpg


^ That critical piece of advertisement doesn't really hold any implications about the inclusion of unicorns. When I look at that, I think of all sorts of things that stay way outside the realm of rainbows and unicorns. If you bought it after seeing that and related material, wouldn't you feel disappointed to find unicorns?

In addition to unicorns, it doesn't say much about Steampunk dudes, robot chickens, and vomit hoses either, does it?

A bit of a hyperbole, but does this explanation help anyone to "get" my perspective, rudeness arguments completely aside?

If KF2 is going to present itself as... well, just look at the PC gamer reveal! If it's going to present itself as that, and later spontaneously change into something else creating an odd mishmash, I know that I'm not the only person who is going to be sorely disappointed.
 
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#77
SHM said:
Why do you guys complain about this survival-horror thing when KF has never been a survival-horror?

No seriously I would like to know which are the survival-horror parts of Killing Floor.
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Well I've been over this part, but it's the theme more than anything. It's named co-op survival horror. Debate about the horror design philosophy all you want. But it advertises that, and it's techno gore action survival zedocalypse theme, which is very, very clear.

So it only makes sense that it sticks to it.

Right now with the way KF treats itself and its world, it's like a Raving Rabbids level of laugh-fishing.
 
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#78
I think survival horror is tossed around rather loosely when it comes to Killing Floor. For the purposes of this thread, survival horror basically means a serious game without silly elements. In the broadest of terms, it's fending off creepy crawlies.

ACTUAL survival horror is a different breed altogether. It's having hardly any equipment, desperately trying to survive. Every single bullet counts and they are extremely hard to come by. Basically, you are pretty much helpless with only the bare minimum tools at your disposal to overcome whatever horrific events are taking place. And generally they are single player, because that's the best way to evoke a feeling of fear. You're totally alone, it's only you against heavy odds and running out of those last 4 bullets could mean certain death.

That's how the original Resident Evil's basically were and what I'd consider true survival horror.
 
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