New Resistances Categorized by Damage Type

[Azukki]

All the lists of the new resistances that I'm finding categorize by zeds.
Here's one categorized by damage type, so you can focus on your particular attack, instead of a particular zed.

This information is from a link simplecat posted, and partially double checked off of the spreadsheet.
Updated to reflect the linked-here changes.
Updated to reflect these changes too.
Update to also reflect these TWI-claimed changes.
the above is according to tripwire, but simplecat's information here conflicts with that, so the list as is may be wrong.
If you notice any mistakes, please let me know.

Ballistic_AssaultRifle
2.5x --Cyst
1.0x --Clot
1.0x --Slasher
0.3x --Bloat (0.4 AR15)
1.5x --Crawler
1x --Gorefast
2.5x --Stalker
0.5x --Husk
0.7x --Siren
0.7x --Scrake
0.5x --Fleshpound
0.5x --Hans Volter
0.5x --Patriarch

Ballistic_Submachinegun
3.0x --Cyst
3.0x --Clot
3.0x --Slasher
0.3x --Bloat
2.2x --Crawler
0.85x --Gorefast
0.75x --Stalker
0.5x --Husk
0.6x --Siren
0.5x --Scrake
0.5x --Fleshpound
0.6x --Hans Volter
0.5x --Patriarch

Ballistic_Handgun
1.01x --Cyst
1.01x --Clot
1.01x --Slasher
0.3x --Bloat (0.6x 9mm)
1x --Crawler
1x --Gorefast
1x --Stalker
0.85x --Husk (1x 9mm, 1x Rem1858)
0.7x --Siren (1x 9mm, 1x Rem1858)
0.8x --Scrake
0.75x --Fleshpound
0.6x --Hans Volter
0.5x --Patriarch

Ballistic_Shotgun
1x --Cyst
1x --Clot
1x --Slasher
0.2x --Bloat
0.6x --Crawler
1.5x --Gorefast
0.5x --Stalker
1x --Husk
1x --Siren
0.8x --Scrake
0.75x --Fleshpound
0.6x --Hans Volter
0.4x --Patriarch

Ballistic_Rifle
1x --Cyst
1x --Clot
1x --Slasher
0.3x --Bloat
1x --Crawler
1.2x --Gorefast
0.55x --Stalker
0.7x --Husk
0.4x --Siren
1x --Scrake
0.75x --Fleshpound
0.7x --Hans Volter
0.5x --Patriarch

Piercing
1x --Cyst
1x --Clot
1x --Slasher
0.25x --Bloat
1x --Crawler
0.75x --Gorefast
1x --Stalker
0.5x --Husk
0.5x --Siren
0.75x --Scrake
0.75x --Fleshpound
0.6x --Hans Volter
0.5x --Patriarch

Slashing
0.75x --Cyst (0.95x Knife)
0.75x --Clot (0.95x Knife)
0.75x --Slasher (0.95x Knife)
0.3x --Bloat
0.95x --Crawler
0.75x --Gorefast
1x --Stalker
0.45x --Husk
0.45x --Siren
0.75x --Scrake
0.3x --Fleshpound
0.6x --Hans Volter
0.5x --Patriarch

Bludgeon
0.75x --Cyst
0.75x --Clot
0.75x --Slasher
0.3x --Bloat
0.85x --Crawler
0.85x --Gorefast
1x --Stalker
0.45x --Husk
0.5x --Siren
0.75x --Scrake
0.4x --Fleshpound
0.6x --Hans Volter
0.5x --Patriarch

Fire
1x --Cyst
1x --Clot
1x --Slasher
1.6x --Bloat
0.55x --Crawler
0.75x --Gorefast
0.55x --Stalker
0x --Husk
0.3x --Siren
0.3x --Scrake
0.3x --Fleshpound
1.1x --Hans Volter
0.5x --Patriarch

Microwave
0.5x --Cyst
0.5x --Clot
0.5x --Slasher
0.8x --Bloat
0.45x --Crawler
1x --Gorefast
0.45x --Stalker
1.15x --Husk
0.85x --Siren
1x --Scrake
1x --Fleshpound
1.5x --Hans Volter
0.9x --Patriarch

Explosive
1x --Cyst
1x --Clot
1x --Slasher
0.5x --Bloat
1x --Crawler
1x --Gorefast
0.55x --Stalker
0.75x --Husk
0.6x --Siren
0.4x --Scrake
1.5x --Fleshpound
1x --Hans Volter (1.2x RPG)
0.4x --Patriarch

Toxic
1x --Cyst
1x --Clot
1x --Slasher
0.25x --Bloat
1x --Crawler
0.75x --Gorefast
1x --Stalker
0.25x --Husk
0.25x --Siren
0.25x --Scrake
0.25x --Fleshpound
0.1x --Hans Volter
0.5x --Patriarch


This thread is mostly just to plop out the reformatted information, but go ahead and discuss; how do you feel about what happened to your favorite damage type?

 

[Phoenix21891]

I can kinda see why they went with this resistance system. It makes certain classes/weapons better at killing their intended Zed type than others. But really, it just makes any Zed with a resistance to your damage type unnaturally bullet spongy, and it feels terrible.

As an example, a Shotgun will have no trouble one shotting Gorefasts, but Stalkers, a notoriously low HP class, will just go "Om nom nom, buckshot" and eat your face. Same with Crawlers, a Commando can easily one shot them (though they could do that before, even on a 6P HoE game) but I guess a Support isn't going to do much more than tickle them unless it's a point blank headshot.

In my opinion, there are far too many values below 1.0x, especially for trash Zeds, which is what's causing the current frustration with the preview build. You usually don't get the luxury of picking off only the targets your gun is good for and letting someone else clean up afterwards.

 

[Nenjin]

Some of the penalties are just way too steep, I say having not played the update but just judging the numbers and player reactions. They may be fine for normal but with how beef things get past that...

KF was always about mowing down hordes of ZEDs. Nerfing people's damage by 2/3rd in some cases is just too extreme, like the complete opposite of "mow down a bunch of a ZEDs."

I feel like half damage is a reasonable cap if used sparingly, against big guys. But Gorefasts and Crawlers and even Clots...do they really even need anything more than 20% damage resistance to anything? Aren't they the supposed to be the chaff for our guns to cut down until they eventually overwhelm us?

Secondly, how are players supposed to know this stuff? It's a background mechanic that radically alters what's possible in a horde game with little to no explanation. Ok, fine, a Husk shrugging off Fire Damage (Jesus, 0? Really?) is a simple, obvious mechanic. But Fire basically not doing full damage against anything except Bloats and Hans? Where is the simple, identifiable logic in that? The pistol is now vastly less than 100% effective against 70% of the enemies in game. Is that going to be on the weapon description somewhere?

These background coefficients on damage are just to balance out Perk strength, in the end. Bludgeon and slash tells you all you need to know there. These are the kind of mechanics that honestly annoy me, background hidden stuff that nerfs your effectiveness as a player without making it obvious why. I play other games (like Warframe) that use this same system essentially, but there you can prepare for and face a predictable enemy loadout. At least your time spent doing wiki reading to play a game is rewarded by maximizing your efficiency, before you pile on enemy HP scaling. These resistances in KF guarantee you'll be outclassed by something in the course of a match, so all your wiki time yields you here is an explanation of why you suck so badly against certain enemies with no way of doing better (other than I guess kiting harder and picking up a crap load of ammo.)

And what exactly is the use of off-perk weapons if they're doing even less damage now? They weren't great before because you weren't getting perk buffs, but now they're even further penalized.

And even setting all that aside...it's stealing the game's thunder. "Here, have this badass hammer with an explosive charge. Go nuts! And now enjoy 50% to 20% reduced damage against most enemies because reasons!"

If they have to keep this system, narrow the range. Don't go handing out 3x damage against weak enemies who we were ALL used to killing in a handful of shots in the previous version anyways. Cap damage resistance higher. Half damage seems fair scaled to 6pHOE HPs, but at 30% or less you're basically making some ZEDs immune. And immunity or near-immunity is simply crap in a game where something can teleport spawn behind you. The logic behind resistances is the opposite of what makes KF fun and enjoyable to play. If you nerf down the bonuses and penalties to a smaller level, it may not get noticed so much on the lower difficulties but it will still have a meaningful impact on the higher level ones.

These should be small advantages and challenges that mix up perk usefulness, that add a little variance to the experience of shooting ZEDs. But at this level, it seems to be taking the game from a horde-style survival game about mowing down crowds of monsters to, as someone else pointed out in the other thread, Borderlands and playing elemental resist whackamole.

 

[Lorkenpeist]

For trash, I feel like 0.7 is about as low as the damage multiplier should go. Make you have to aim a little bit better with shotguns or maybe have to take an extra shot, but doing 1/4 damage vs stalkers and 1/3 vs crawlers is just nuts. It shouldn't take 3 sprays of the nail gun to take down a single crawler at anything longer than point blank range! That's the zerk's primary defense against crawlers!

 

[Gallic_Taffer]

Guess I'll just come out and say it: the zed resistance is a mess and needs to be held back. Go ahead with the update, but hold back on the zed resistance nonsense and refine it some more. It really makes no sense as it is now.

One of the hugest flaws is how unintuitive it is. You wanted mando to not ace mid level zeds as easily, ok that's fine. Up the husk and siren's head health, don't give him some magical resistance to assault rifle bullets.

Using the 9mm was the mark of a frugal, talented survivor. Now it can't kill anything properly. Don't do that, everyone is stuck with the 9mm. Make it effective with practice rather than some neglected sidearm that never sees the light of day.

The idea of zed resistances can be an interesting one, but most of all, make it intuitive! i shouldn't have to paste a printout sheet on my wall to reference when it comes to maximizing zed damage.

 

[Escadin]

Guess I'll just come out and say it: the zed resistance is a mess and needs to be held back. Go ahead with the update, but hold back on the zed resistance nonsense and refine it some more. It really makes no sense as it is now.

One of the hugest flaws is how unintuitive it is. You wanted mando to not ace mid level zeds as easily, ok that's fine. Up the husk and siren's head health, don't give him some magical resistance to assault rifle bullets.

Using the 9mm was the mark of a frugal, talented survivor. Now it can't kill anything properly. Don't do that, everyone is stuck with the 9mm. Make it effective with practice rather than some neglected sidearm that never sees the light of day.

The idea of zed resistances can be an interesting one, but most of all, make it intuitive! i shouldn't have to paste a printout sheet on my wall to reference when it comes to maximizing zed damage.

The game seems perfectly playable without that knowledge so I don't see why they should hold back. Some zeds just give certain perks a harder time than others and you should find out which ones are out for your perk within minutes actually. There is no need to know any numbers or what perks you don't play could bring to the table.

They have obviously taken note about 9mm and other weird cases and it's easy to fix via live update system.

 

[Nenjin]

I want to link Warframe's Damage Tables as an example of this idea, done more sensibly with respect toward preserving players feeling powerful. Warframe and KF aren't 1:1 in their make up but they're essentially doing the same kind of gameplay.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_2.0

Notice that by and large, many combinations just simply don't modify damage? And that bonuses outweigh penalties on the table? That keeps it less from becoming a "Haha you lose" situation and more toward "you have to work a little harder" one.

There is no need to know any numbers or what perks you don't play could bring to the table.

I absolutely want to know when I simply don't do "actual" damage. I'm not playing a turn-based RPG. I can't pause and Google to find out whether there's enough ammo in my clip to kill something. That and I don't think bullet sponges is the direction KF needs to move.

 

[Escadin]

I want to link Warframe's Damage Tables as an example of this idea, done more sensibly with respect toward preserving players feeling powerful. Warframe and KF aren't 1:1 in their make up but they're essentially doing the same kind of gameplay.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_2.0

Notice that by and large, many combinations just simply don't modify damage? And that bonuses outweigh penalties on the table? That keeps it less from becoming a "Haha you lose" situation and more toward "you have to work a little harder" one.

I absolutely want to know when I simply don't do "actual" damage. I'm not playing a turn-based RPG where I can stop and Google to find out whether there's enough ammo in my clip to kill something. That and I don't think bullet sponges is the direction KF needs to move.

I kind of wonder do you even play the preview? The game gives you immediate feedback about your damage because zeds either die to a few shots or they don't. Hit feedback is excellent.

 

[Gallic_Taffer]

The game seems perfectly playable without that knowledge so I don't see why they should hold back.

If this update came out and they focused, focused on smoothing it out, sure it can stay. No more wild and crazy ideas (I'm looking at you, versus mode) to distract the dev team. I'm wary of it though. Several perks got jostled badly by this, notably gunslinger, who was a solid and balanced perk up until now, where his use in the game has become questionable simply due to "lol bullet resistance".

A handful of perks achieved a more clear role with this update, but most have been needlessly tossed out of whack, in a way that looks to me like blatant oversight.

 

[Nenjin]

I kind of wonder do you even play the preview? The game gives you immediate feedback about your damage because zeds either die to a few shots or they don't. Hit feedback is excellent.

Right at the top of my first post, I said I haven't tried it yet. And I don't need to. I only have to ask myself if having to shoot the majority of ZEDs more times with all perk weapons sounds fun. It doesn't. I dealt with this same change in Warframe and they had to hammer out the issues there too, just like TWI is going to have to.

But right now, this doesn't sound fun to me. It sounds like an across the board damage nerf except for cysts.

 

[mrsirr]

One of the hugest flaws is how unintuitive it is.

To me this is pretty much the biggest problem with it. A few things to remember isn't that hard
FP takes full damage from MW Gun? Makes sense he's got metal in him after all.
Husk resistant to fire? Sounds about right.
Then some other little things like Scrakes being vulnerable to PG-7 warhead direct hits or FP being weak against fire are alright, it's not too much to remember.
But when some zeds are weak against shotguns but strong against handguns, strong against rifles but weak against assault rifles,
"unintuitive" is the best word for it imo.
I think one of the main things is that it seperates ballistics into different types for each type of firearm. My problem here isn't that it's not realistic, it's that it is, again, very unintuitive. I don't necessarily think that it could never work, but it feels pretty wonky currently (well not currently since I haven't played since the recent update, could be fine now for all I know.)

 

[Ryno5660]

indeed, I can see how soft targets may take more damage from lower calibers than ARs or high power rifles but generally, something that is weak to bullets is weak to bullets.

You see my avatar? You know how I feel about this. It's disgusting how much everything resists my burning petrol love. Incaps I can get behind, it's the only thing keeping me alive, but killing? In killing floor? Nope, not for my perk anymore. Infact I think this perk is the only one whose job literally involves no actual killing now. At most that should be one of the 2 skill trees, focusing on spreading fire and having fire in general cause all sorts of nasty effects and debufffs, the other being damage.

My thoughts on general resistances, separate from perk choice? It's a good idea but trash needs like, a full x1 modifier on all damage types. Or what it had before, would it be like x0.9 or something? Either way nobody had to run from a single gorefast. I felt shameful doing that, downright shameful.

For bigger stuff, like Husks/Sirens and upwards, resistances can actually be interesting. You could combo certain attack types if you and a buddy were having trouble with a particular enemy, you could use the same kind of combos to ruin an FP's day if Sharpie or Demo wasn't about. Having to combo together or rely on your buddy to shoot that lone gorefast/2 stalkers is bad though. And in my case I have to rely on buddies for trash. As a guy with a flamethrower. Trash.

 

[ScrakeMorgendorffer]

In my opinion, there are far too many values below 1.0x, especially for trash Zeds, which is what's causing the current frustration with the preview build. You usually don't get the luxury of picking off only the targets your gun is good for and letting someone else clean up afterwards.

TW pls read this, understand that it's the most direct, honest and practical feedback you're going to receive about this preview.

 

[flashn00b]

Can't say i'm a fan of how pretty much everything resists bludgeoning and slashing. Berserker feels more like a chore to play at this point, and the fact that everything resists melee attacks renders your perk level damage bonus pointless.

Personally, i'd change the resistances against melee to this:

Slashing
Bloat: 0.3 (1.0 on headshot)
Crawler: 0.6
Fleshpound: 0.75
Patriarch/Hans: 0.65
Everything else: 1.0

Bludgeon
Bloat: 0.5 (1.0 on headshot)
Crawler: 2.0
Fleshpound: 0.5
Hans/Patriarch: 0.5
Everything else: 1.0

Piercing
All clot variants: 1.34
Stalkers: 1.34
Fleshpound: 0.75
Hans Volter/Patriarch: 0.8
Everything Else: 1.0

 

[Jr175]

I want to link Warframe's Damage Tables as an example of this idea, done more sensibly with respect toward preserving players feeling powerful. Warframe and KF aren't 1:1 in their make up but they're essentially doing the same kind of gameplay.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_2.0

Notice that by and large, many combinations just simply don't modify damage? And that bonuses outweigh penalties on the table? That keeps it less from becoming a "Haha you lose" situation and more toward "you have to work a little harder" one.

I'm finding the comparison of the preview's resistance system to warframe's resistance system ironic.

While I agree that warframe's system is overall much better than KF2's in the preview, both are actually really lacking and in need of a rework to make them much less intrusive on the respective, "end games" of both games.

 

[DanielKevlar]

I'm finding the comparison of the preview's resistance system to warframe's resistance system ironic.

While I agree that warframe's system is overall much better than KF2's in the preview, both are actually really lacking and in need of a rework to make them much less intrusive on the respective, "end games" of both games.

As someone who also plays both Warframe and KF2, I don't see the irony. But at least Warframe had some intuition to how the damage system worked. Grineer have armour, Puncture pierces armour. Corpus have shields, Impact breaks shields. Infested have flesh, Slash cuts flesh.

In KF2, I guess they tried to break up Ballistic damage into all sorts of firearms while ignoring the fact that having a trash Stalker eat a facefull of buckshot from a 12-gauge shotgun and keep trying to kill you is a little bloody ridiculous. That and having Crawlers be resistant to Fire, you know, the one damage type from that one class that GAINS BONUS XP FROM KILLING THE DAMN THINGS. And this is from a solo player too (in both Warframe and KF)

 

[neddie]

This is going to sound harsh, but I think it must be said. I've played about twenty hours of the preview so far, and I must speak up for my experience.

I feel that the resistance system detracts heavily from the experience of Killing Floor 2. It does not seem to solve any problems, add any character, or otherwise improve the game.

First, and crucially, it is unintuitive, because a bullet is a bullet, and flesh is flesh.

Furthermore:

• It confuses and frustrates players, both old and new.
• It penalizes teams which do not spread themselves across perks.
• It disproportionately penalizes small teams as the waves proceed, and complicates solo even more so.
• It disproportionately penalizes teams playing at higher difficulties.
• It reduces the ability of a team to recover from the loss of any members in a wave, because the "right" damage types may no longer be present in the pool.
• It introduces a "metagame" element where information which is not presented explicitly in the game itself is key to effective play of the game.

I would welcome tweaks to it, as proposed by other people in the thread, but I also question the value of the system in the first place. Good design is intuitive, logical, and self-evident, with concrete benefits - the resistance system has none of these qualities.

 

[DBShinigami]

All balistic damage should be roughly the same (0.3* damage against Stalker is ridiculous when the same "bullet" can do 2.5* damage because reasons).
Trash zed should not have particular resistance (at least clot variants).
Crawler should not be resistant to fire (it's in your XP description as a firebug).

 

[Escadin]

You would be more constructive if you made a list of which changes made by the resistance system specifically annoy you exactly. I've played my fair share of the preview as well and got the complete opposite impression.
In fact, I think it adds a lot to perk and skill diversity even though I advocated against this direction previously.

I'm not saying there aren't individual weapons or zeds that might be worth looking into but the majority of additions isn't harmful in any way. In reality, the changes to most perks I play are rather subtle when compared to claims of impossible to kill or overly tanky zeds.

Gunslinger and Commando are pretty much the same except people will actually want a mando on their team now because stalkers can be more difficult to kill (as opposed to why even bother trying).

Berserker is different and even stronger in some aspects. Parry is considerably weaker but far from useless and you won't be parrytanking everything 24/7 with the new incap system anyway. Damage is up the scale though and eviscerator finally has a place in this game.

Sharpshooter has a field day as long as you can pump out headshots consistently which is exactly how it is supposed to be. Stalkers and bloats keep you from stomping waves solo though. Again not because they are impossible to kill but because they take a bit more time and effort to kill than banal trash.

Firebug is way different and being left with so little damage makes you feel weak, I grant you that. However, there is no point in judging this perk prior to it's incoming skill tree rework.

Medic is less of a full commando with free stumble when it comes to trash cleaning. So what? This can hardly break the perk. SMG actually got it's own niche so it's not a pointless piece of crap anymore.

And if you still struggle to cope with zed Y for whatever reason then guess what? Using off-perk weapons got a huge promotion for you. A simple 650$ crossbow can retrivialize many zeds you don't like to bother with.

The bottomline is, a few zeds either require 1-3 headshots more or to be headshotted in the first place. That is all. Why is heaving to hit a bloat 3 times instead of 2 such a big deal?

 

[Jr175]

As someone who also plays both Warframe and KF2, I don't see the irony. But at least Warframe had some intuition to how the damage system worked. Grineer have armour, Puncture pierces armour. Corpus have shields, Impact breaks shields. Infested have flesh, Slash cuts flesh

While you are correct in saying that each IPS (and elemental or elemental combo too) damage type has it's uses, there is a clear and distinct problem with the system in that you can just run slash/corrosive and steamroll every single faction in the game. This removes the alleged, "choice" players have in modding. Which is why I find the system warframe is using flawed.

The KF2 preview is on the other end of the spectrum, where there is no, "this gun/damage type is good against everything to a degree". In fact, the problem is that the system is punishing players for not having the correct type of weapon or damage to deal with certain zeds.

Which is unfair to say the least in a horde game that speeds up zeds to ridiculous speeds in the, "end game" so to speak.