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Microtransactions the taboo.

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#81
Vintage said:
Micro transactions are a blight and if they are anything non-cosmetic (such as new guns) it may cause me to drop the game completely.

I stopped playing KF1 because of all the new guns that were unavailable unless you paid for them.

Cosmetics such as skins - fine whatever. Things that actually affect the gameplay? Not okay, to the point where it will make me drop a game completely.

And "in-game" currency is a scam used by developers to cover up how expensive things really are. Let's not include that in KF.
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This guy pretty much covered all the bases for me. PLEASE TRIPWIRE, I know you need money to make games and live but dont add weapons and stuff that you have to buy. Stick to skins and weapon skin packs. Make a ton of them if you need more funds. Be those game devs that everybody talks about like: "Man tripwire really loves their fans, they are so fan friendly and know how to make a good game." I mean Im sure youre not trying to not do that but lets not ruin the game with Pay to win stuff.
 
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#82
dreamweaver said:
This guy pretty much covered all the bases for me. PLEASE TRIPWIRE, I know you need money to make games and live but dont add weapons and stuff that you have to buy. Stick to skins and weapon skin packs. Make a ton of them if you need more funds. Be those game devs that everybody talks about like: "Man tripwire really loves their fans, they are so fan friendly and know how to make a good game." I mean Im sure youre not trying to not do that but lets not ruin the game with Pay to win stuff.
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But skins do not add any fun to a game and are overpriced for what they are imo, unless it went above and beyond a simple "paint job". Like for example a completely modeled spas 12 skin with different animations for the M4, that is a skin I would be willing to buy...

But I rather the dlc be something functional like new weapons because 4 weapons for each class lacks variety and can be too repetitive at times. And if they add weapons for free then awesome but from my experience to get more weapons in a game the devs tend to need incentives($) for that to happen.
 
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#83
Duelist said:
But skins do not add any fun to a game and are overpriced for what they are imo, unless it went above and beyond a simple "paint job". Like for example a completely modeled spas 12 skin with different animations for the M4, that is a skin I would be willing to buy...

But I rather the dlc be something functional like new weapons because 4 weapons for each class lacks variety and can be too repetitive at times. And if they add weapons for free then awesome but from my experience to get more weapons in a game the devs tend to need incentives($) for that to happen.
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Its not a F2P game so I expect new weapons for free. I didnt buy a demo game , I bought a full game, and if something is missing I expect it as a free content as an update and not for money.
They can easily stick to cosmetics for chars like hats glasses etc. For weapons, they could add skins and change the look if they want and not just a paint job.
 
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#85
Lorkenpeist said:
Hmmmm... TWI needs to put food on the table, but people don't want to have to pay money for unique weapons... Weapon Pack Kickstarter! Then you can pay what you want but everyone gets the weapons (assuming they reach their goal).
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If it means at least 4 additional weapons for every class then I would be the first in line to plop money on the keyboard. Seriously, I need a larger variety of tools to play with.
 
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#86
Microtransactions are fine. I think KF2 should make use of them via skins and other goodies to boost their revenue stream. The issue that occurred with PayDay 2 is that the skins were:


  1. Stat boosting skins that occur at random (you're not buying a skin, you're buying a CHANCE at the skin you want)
  2. They said no microtransactions ever and even told the community "shame on you for thinking otherwise!"
  3. You can get skins for weapons you don't own the DLC for.
Overkill could've had their cake and ate it too if they just didn't put the stats on the skins. If Tripwire wants to put some golden skins out, or make medic skins that glow green (favorite color), or even implment community creations into the official game like they did with the community weapon packs, but instead do them as single weapons, I'd probably drop a few bucks.


If Tripwire sets expectations, separates random cosmetic skin from things that actually affect the game, they could gain a great revenue stream. Just DON'T make stat boosting skins that you need to pray that you get the one right one from a random crate loot drop.
 
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#87
welp, i guess i can go next.

1: Hate them in normal games. If i had to drop 20 dollars for a game, then drop 10 the the dlc, 5 for a second and 5 for a 3rd i better not see a god dam micro transactions for 2 square miles. This is doubly so if they have a major change to game play which is:

-Hard or impossible to get for a non paying user.
-Absolutely required to even compete with a new re balance patch.
-Make no logical sense or reason.

My main hate is directed toward Payday 2, i jumped ship at the very first DLC but even then it still burns my *** that they are still scamming people out of their money. The worst sin in my eyes is not only that they have random gambling but you can get an item that you need to buy a dlc in order to even use, thus requiring more money. As much bad as i can say about Tf2 at least when i get an item i can equip and use it any time i please.

When it comes to free to play games i can't really fault it, they got to make money somehow and didn't have the initial buy in so micro transaction and packs are all they really got. Mainly the 2 big ones that I'm ok with which come to mind are Armored Warfare (new f2p tank game like world of tanks but with modern vehicles and in my opinion less frustrating) and Warframe (somewhat high buy in but if you put work into the game you can get platinum pretty easily and get a lot of the content for free).

2: Would have them but under very heavy conditions.

3: Conditions:
  1. No stat changing Micro-Transactions. If it's messing with the game balance don't put it in
  2. Have options for single items or whole packs. Having to buy an entire kinda meh skin pack for 1 character or item you actually want is something many people have a problem with. On the flip side make it so there are still grouped packs for ease of purchase for the collectors out there.
  3. Price it according to what it's acutely worth. No one should have to pay $5 for 1 skin
  4. Avoid anything the divides the community. Skins are fine but Maps, weapons and ESPECIALLY PERKS should be avoided.
  5. Don't do it until most of your content is in and after several months. Releasing to much dlc or micro transactions to fast can and will kill the game stone dead (see Evolve)
  6. If you have side grade items make it so it can be shared, even if the person who owns the dlc/item has to buy it. Don't put a lock on it, your just going to make people say "**** it" and not even bother

Micro transactions when done right can be a nice revenue pocket to help keep a game afloat. If you have things that people actually want to buy but arn't required then you satisfy your hardcore player base while not alienating the people who don't want to buy stuff constantly. Not to mention with a share system if 1 person uses it and thinks "hey, this is pretty cool" there is a good chance they may buy it just so they can always have it and not have to rely on another person having it.

On top of all this having items that strengthen community co-operation is always a good thing. It really doesn't seem like rocket science to me that if you do it right and choose the right items it can both be minimally intrusive and keep your game a float.
 
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#88
Hmm, my opinion on microtransactions:

  1. No ingame currencies, I'll buy it with steam wallet or through my bank billing (or what's it called exactly in english) if I want it.
  2. No buffs to weapon, health or armor attributes.
  3. No items like Payday 2 Drills that are needed to open some ingame safes that can't be rid from your inventory.
  4. Must be purely optional and not impacting the game at all. (as in "Community Fragmenting Content" or "Powercreep")
  5. Include "Disable custom skins" option in online options if it's gonna be huge numbers of skins I consider simply as "retarded". Any skin that is meant to glow and break immersion are just clutter on my computer performance, even if small, I play the game to blow up zeds into small gibblets, not to look at my buddies phosphorescent weapons or gear, that's why there is flashlight attachments and nightvision, if I want to see in the dark.
  6. If it's DLC in small parts, and in good price, like full set would cost as much as a full DLC, then it's Ok. Weapons and character models in their own packages instead of big packages, while I only want the ones I like most.
  7. Experience booster or max lvl up are ok in some sense, since it depends on the individual, if they just want to play the game with all options the instant, instead of spend time on lvling up the perks and have the issue with "must max it before I can play normally" (I admit, I have problems with lvl ups and am very obsessed on lvling them to max before being able to play the game normally)
  8. Include "base content" setups that players can play the game without getting disconnected due to "paid content required".
 
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#89
Duelist said:
But skins do not add any fun to a game and are overpriced for what they are imo, unless it went above and beyond a simple "paint job". Like for example a completely modeled spas 12 skin with different animations for the M4, that is a skin I would be willing to buy...

But I rather the dlc be something functional like new weapons because 4 weapons for each class lacks variety and can be too repetitive at times. And if they add weapons for free then awesome but from my experience to get more weapons in a game the devs tend to need incentives($) for that to happen.
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You have good points. A fantastic middle ground between new weapons (good stuff but the important ones should be free like KF1) and skins (never been interested). Alternate weapon models! Designers, modellers and animators would have to work harder than for a skin but it'd be a great way to get many guns in the game without rebalancing or flooding the game with over-similar weapons!

Colt peacemaker model to go over the 1858, for example. You get the gun you want and it isn't added as a full new weapon with either much better (P2W) stats or very similar stats (I personally love as many guns as possible but hate it when they all perform pretty much the same).
 
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#92
We may not be representative as a noun, but I think it's safe to say that we are representative as an adjective. Opinions are hardly unique and this thread likely shows a good slice of different standpoints that the community as a whole has to varying degrees.

Most importantly this thread points out the good and the bad about MS and hopefully provide an outside look for TWI that will serve both them and us well. After all... that's the entire point of this topic, right? :3
 
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#93
I don't believe either side is going to find a perfect answer to the micro-transactions argument, the best bet is going to be a compromise in which both groups would get what they want but at the same time expecting to not step on toes is an unrealistic ideal.

I found myself wondering why DLC from KF1 kept getting mentioned because the only DLC I had bought was for DJ Skully and when I looked at the steam store I was taken by surprise on the amount of DLC that had been made in the time I was away. My personal impression of the DLCs that were released is that they don't keep in-line with the KF world and most were very gaudy and forced looking. On the other side of the argument is that I don't have to buy stuff I don't like.

From what I have read through out the thread is that cosmetics are okay but game-changing weapons are not because it would become a "pay-to-win" situation. I mostly agree with this. I however don't mind seeing new weapons introduced into the game if they work differently than other weapons but then a serious consideration into the balance aspect of things needs to be looked at.

If you want a good example of how to do it wrong go look at Warframe weapons, NOTHING is balanced in that game and the more content they pump out the less I believe they will be able to catch up and balance their game.(each batch of weapons is progressively more powerful) I'm not advocating a perfectly balanced game is fun though because too much consistency is boring by predictability.

I really wish that the economy would be in a better state because I think the money trouble would be much less if you could release a full-priced game at $60 and then you would only need to worry about cosmetics as micro-transactions while being able to work on actual game content.
 
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#94
Microtransactions, DLCs, Expansion packs - whatever you call it - are judged by me based on two questions:
1. Do I get my money's worth of content?
2. Is it game-breaking or unfair to make something a paid add-on.

To elaborate a bit on both questions: I am totally fine with it if you make cosmetic choices optional microtransactions. They do not cause any ballance problems and give players a way to support the company after the initial purchase. Still, they should be somewhat in line with what you charge otherwise. I think I've paid around 20
 
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#95
DLC is fine as long as it isn't exploitative

DLC is fine as long as it isn't exploitative

KF1 DLC did seem overpriced in places. The worst example of 'bad' KF1 DLC was releasing skin packs that didn't include all guns ('only' 4 or so guns in each pack). Personally I find that to be outright exploitative, as it's pretty much impossible to justify not providing skins for all the vanilla guns. Especially as the DLC costs
 
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#96
If I may ask a question, since I think either no one or maybe a few people actually mentioned that...

If new weapons were introduced as MTs, but (as it is now) if even one person on the server had said DLC, then all players could buy it at trader... would you still consider it as something bad?

On the example of Zweihander - I don't think I ever was in a game where I was the only person having it.
 
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#98
FoxReinhold said:
I do hope Tripwire reads this, we are literally telling them ways to get money from us without alienating us as a community. They can learn from Overkill, get their revenue streams, and put out a fantastic game.
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Thats the main reason of this thread. As you can see a dev has posted here, so they are reading.

We all love Killing Floor (I try not to tallk for other people but I'm pretty sure everyone here loves the game not everyone likes it in it's current state but we all love it) and we all wan't the best for our favorite game. And I believe that if we can have so many comments and a normal conversation about such a taboo topic is really awesome and shows that the community is not just great it's pure awesome. Usually in other forums and places such threads become a flame war really really fast.

The truth is that there should be compromises on both sides. If we want our game to live long and prosper the devs must find a way to have stable income from it and in todays market things like RNG drops or skins and other are huge right now. I have over 300 Steam friends, 200 of them have CS GO and about 30 - 40 of them have over 1500 hours of game time only because of those darn RNG crate drops with skins.

The thing I really didn't want to mention, but I have to give it as an example is Payday 2. The guys at Overkill tottaly destroyed their community and lost all respect for their company - but if you see the Payday 2 steam statistics you can clearly see that even with all that they pulled off the game has an average of 30 000 players after they put microtransactions than the average of 10 000 when they didn't have them. As much as I hate them - those things bring revenue to the company in a big way. And if so many people play such a broken game sole for the microtransactions - then people like me who enjoy the game itself will be happy since there will be events and content for the game forever. (just tot be clear I am one of the PD2 veterans who uninstalled and will never play again)

So if TWI read this thread, and I'm sure they do, at least when they check the forum it's up there, there is a way for this to be done in such a way that it won't bother old player as well as new players and player that play games only for the reason of getting something that they can sell on the Steam market. You can make a win - win situation for everyone if you don't look at your player base only as wallking wallets but as people who spend their precious free time playing your game.

I would like to summarise few things that I believe is the essential for now please correct me if I am wrong.

- Everything must be cosmetic only.
- RNG must be minimised - people like to know what they pay for.
- Sets of items are prefered than one or some random items.

Thank you all for giving your oppinions, lets show other games that our community is awesome and our developers are awesome.

Keep posting your oppinions on the matter, everyones thoughts matter.
 
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#99
OnT : Cosmetic things only.

TWI have a great history, and are among the companies I'd hold up there as shining examples of indie development, among the likes of Grinding Gear Games. However, I once considered Overkill to be on that list of great indie devs, and look at the state of Payday 2 now.. Don't go down that road TWI.
 
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#100
I don't understand the hatred towards micro transactions. They are fine as long as they don't impact the balance of the game or give players an advantage over one another. Purely cosmetic content is absolutely fine for a game, and I whole sale encourage it.

Customisation is a luxury, a feature most people welcome, but sadly is not usually economically viable to develop into a key feature of the game. Micro transactions rectify this issue nicely, so if you want to have a slightly different look to your in game avatar you can.

You are happy because your in game self feels like more an extension of you.
The devs are happy because their relatively simple to generate art assets turn a nice profit
The community is happy because the game keep receiving funding and continues development.

The only times micro-transactions suck is when Devs are irresponsible about it... but that can be said about pretty much any game feature ever.
 
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