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micro gun OP?

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ormalash

Grizzled Veteran
Jul 25, 2013
45
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#1
well i just did some math earlier with this :
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...g0glFx8cZCuErwxZLiBKl9SyY/edit#gid=2076405357

and i've found out the dps of an fb 25 with a micro gun and that was quite insane imo :
rate of fire 857hit / 60s = 14.29 hit / s
the damage of the micro gun is about 20 so so with the bonus of the perk and the skill splash damage that give something like that i guess :
(20 x 1.25) x 2 = 50

so the amount of damage is about :
50 x 14.29 =714.16 dps
and x2 for the scrake which bring you to an insane amount of 1400 dps ...
well now just a quick look to the hp of the scrake :
on hoe solo it's about 1705 hp ... less than 2 second of beaming at his feet to kill one ?.? seriously O.O what's that
yeah i know it's only solo in a certain way you have to get a way to kill those big one ... but so easily ? no i dont think so
even on 6 man hoe he got nearly 6000 hp that's only 4.5 sec of beaming at his feet ... WITHOUT ANY ****ING HELP FROM ANYONE !!! and without reloading. for the fp ... well you do 2.5 more time to kill one so imo it's fine. Tripwire plz get ride of the double damage on the scrake or at least lower it to 1.5 because right now the microgun ... got SO much dps in comparison to other t4 that's just insane !
 
#6
Microwave gun is OP but I don't really use it now that I've got level +20 skills unlocked.

I used to go for the Trench Gun on second wave and use it until I could get the MWG, but now that I've got the Skills that pushes enemies back at point blank range and splash damage skill, the trench gun seems useless compared to the cauke n burn, and along with the flamethrower, is a ton more fun and interesting to use, pushing enemies backwards into firey bunches until one of them explodes taking out the group!

I typically use the Cauke first until I run out of ammo, then finish the round with the flamethrower.

I let a berzerker parry with a scrake and I just splash damage the hell out of his feet. Since I got the sword Dlc the Berzerker can equipe the sword and between the sword and the flamethrower with splash damage he goes down kinda quickly, and the splash damage cooks any trash zeds so the Berzerker can safely focus on the scrake.

Firebug is super effect power multiplier (with Cauke or flamethrower) just following berzerker, crisping anything around him so he can kill it with one hit, and if a group swamps him, the whole group bunches themselves infront of him, and 3 bursts for the Cauk or two from the flamethrower will kill the whole bunch, or make them one hit kills.
 
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#7
It's part of the reason I don't play the game anymore. Just makes the game too easy, even on HoE. I think Hard with a team of level 10/15s is actually a tougher challenge than playing HoE with a team of level 20s/25s.

With that said, it's only part of the problem. Demo 25 is ridiculously OP. Medics healing armor even with full HP is also OP. Zerk walls are practically impenetrable and turn every map into Timbos Perk Trainer. Zweihander is OP for being a side-grade.

The game needs a lot of work (yes, I know it's EA), and I was hugely disappointed that the devs chose to put game balance on the back burner.

I loved v1008 and I could play the four maps with four perks and not get bored of it because it was actually challenging. v1013, on the other hand, I got bored of pretty quickly.
 
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#8
:KFP Rusty Shackleford said:
It's part of the reason I don't play the game anymore. Just makes the game too easy, even on HoE. I think Hard with a team of level 10/15s is actually a tougher challenge than playing HoE with a team of level 20s/25s.

With that said, it's only part of the problem. Demo 25 is ridiculously OP. Medics healing armor even with full HP is also OP. Zerk walls are practically impenetrable and turn every map into Timbos Perk Trainer. Zweihander is OP for being a side-grade.

The game needs a lot of work (yes, I know it's EA), and I was hugely disappointed that the devs chose to put game balance on the back burner.

I loved v1008 and I could play the four maps with four perks and not get bored of it because it was actually challenging. v1013, on the other hand, I got bored of pretty quickly.
Click to expand...

You are right, all the perks are op in their own little way. How about buffing zeds to level the playing field instead of taking away from all the perks? The zeds were balanced for the original 4 perks, now they need to be re-balanced to stack up against the new weapon sets. This will most likely have to be done two more times with the coming perks.
 
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#10
the zerk might be OP but not because he can tank but simply because you use some trick to heal him and his armor in a permanent way. well about his damage that's something else at lvl 20 you can have something like a free KO for a big zed and double damage for his heavy attacks or he can get some attack speed which isn't in par with the other skill imo.

back to the main topic ... yes the microwave gun is OP about that no one can disagree ... i hope so. some of the idea are to :
- increase the price which only delayed the gang feist (useless imo)
- throw away his aoe damage (which mean only single damage and no trash clean while your focusing on a big one ... might be the way to go even if a bit rash)
- reduced the bonus damage for the scrake to 1.5
- the zed shrap and napalm, damage it's user. not the best idea here :/ imo (shrap ok but napalm ?.? no one use it allready why adding something bad to something useless ?.? furthermore it's useless for the micro gun ... trolling ?.?)


but i have another question why taking the flamethrower when you know it does nearly the same thing as the caulk ?(except from the direct damage and other usefull thing ... not so much of a MUST have imo) even if i prefer the flamethrower ... just for the point of using it xD
because you cant really kill any big one with it so for the team you become a burden with the capability to kill any trash really fast ... but the caulk do that too :s

and last thing ... everybody use the same skill : splash damage/heat wave/ zed shrapnel (dont mention the lvl 5 since we switch every game) which are skill that are good ... and even OP for the splash damage but the other one which are mainly focus on fire weapon & damage are lackluster if not worth

just a little link to another post
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=112923
that's not advertising .... maybe it is :x
Click to expand...
 
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#11
I think it's very powerful, but people throw around the term OP way too much. Just because its the best at doing something, doesn't mean it's OP. Especially if you keep in mind the perk as a whole. Firebug and demo are the only perks (so far) that don't have any significant defensive benefits. Other classes either get more health, more armor, higher move speed, etc. Now I personally think demo is a bit weak at the moment, but firebug is in a good place. It's kill or be killed. With that said, I think a price increase on the microwave gun to 2000 is reasonable, but anything else would be excessive.
 
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#12
ormalash said:
back to the main topic ... yes the microwave gun is OP about that no one can disagree ... i hope so. some of the idea are to :
- increase the price which only delayed the gang feist (useless imo)
- throw away his aoe damage (which mean only single damage and no trash clean while your focusing on a big one ... might be the way to go even if a bit rash)
- reduced the bonus damage for the scrake to 1.5
- the zed shrap and napalm, damage it's user. not the best idea here :/ imo (shrap ok but napalm ?.? no one use it allready why adding something bad to something useless ?.? furthermore it's useless for the micro gun ... trolling ?.?)
Click to expand...

Price
Increasing the price is good for keeping it out of early waves and players would be more enticed to use the Flamethrower instead of just skipping it. Also, simply because 1500 Dosh is not enough for a weapon that powerful.

Splash Damage
The seemingly obvious solution to the Microwave gun, remove splash damage from the gun not the skill. This would be another enticing reason to choose the Flamethrower over the Microwave gun.

Zed Shrapnel & Napalm
Yeah, this is hard sell but let me explain. Because, why not? zeds exploding hurts other zeds why not the FB too? The Shrapnel skill would be so powerful yet dangerous that some people would want to choose the lesser self harming Napalm skill instead. Another benefit would be that the other skills then become viable, like "Range" and "Fuse".

For instance-

Range, Fuse, and Shrapnel skills would be complimentary
where as
Splash, Heat Wave, and Napalm skills would be complimentary

(This is a solution to make the Firebug a more diverse and skilled perk rather than a mindlessly easy walk in the park.)
 
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#13
about the aoe suppression i was talking about the aoe of the microgun not from the skill

and for the price well to me the problem is not the way it kill the trash zed but the way it kill the big one (it's really easy to get enough money until wave 5 playing only with the caulk) so i dont really care.

well the splash damage from shrap i dont have anything against it could be a good idea to diversify the use of those perks. but since you got an immunity to fire damage (which is a bit ... strange with the other fire resistance) for the napalm why putting some damage to itself ?.? i think i misunderstood what you meant the fuse would be use because of the splash damage from the shrapnel skill

but i still think some tweak should be done on range/napalm/fuse increasing something with those overside effect from the fire (ground and afterburn)
 
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#14
RUSTIK said:
You are right, all the perks are op in their own little way. How about buffing zeds to level the playing field instead of taking away from all the perks? The zeds were balanced for the original 4 perks, now they need to be re-balanced to stack up against the new weapon sets. This will most likely have to be done two more times with the coming perks.
Click to expand...
For Firebug, I think MG needs to have its damage bonus removed for FPs and SCs. There are other things contributing to the imbalance that should be looked at as well. For the other classes, it's a lot to go over. I'd love to see zeds buffed, though. And not with HP / DMG.
 
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#16
ormalash said:
well there is'nt any bonus against an fp
Click to expand...
It deals full damage to FPs, where as ballistic weapons, slashing weapons, bludgeon weapons, etc. deal 50% less damage. Personally, I consider that a bonus considering that FPs only weakness were Explosives and Piercing. But now there's a weapon that ignores its damage resistance that would have applied to any other weapon besides Explosives and Piercing.
 
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#18
I am totally happy with the damage potential of microwave gun in general. Your calculations seem off to me but it makes little difference. In fact, it is important that all perks can wield this much potential and luckily a hand full do in the current build.

However, it bothers me that the microwave gun has absolutely no skill ceiling. You don't even have to hit your target - instead you are even rewarded for missing.
This is what really needs to be changed if the game wants to hold a 6 years+ old veteran audience like it's predecessor.


Don't knee-jerk cry for nerfs!

Look at the big picture!

 Helpless and on your random pub team dependent perks are just as boring as out of the box overpowered ones. Tweak the microwave gun so it requires way more practice and finess to unleash it's full potential instead.
 
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#20
i'm not saying yes or no, but this comparison... isn't one.

you've listed the expected Damage Output of a single Weapon.
how can it be Overpowered if you only have one Weapon to look at?
where's the other Weapons to compare it to? you need context to know whether that's a lot or isn't.


i.e. you need to actually compare to something to know if this is even above average. it could be terrible. (i know it isn't, but you don't really know until you actually have context).
 
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