Maybe the Demo class shouldn't have been made at all?

[SocksFoHands]

the only thing that really kills the demoman is the smoke. just like the fire is with firebugs......it makes it difficult for the others to see. but that's on the demo to know when to shoot and when not to shoot. there are times when 1 well placed grenade will clear out 10-12 raging zeds. shooting 3 nades from the m32 when there's a FP or scrake in the mix, not a good idea.
.

That right there is the problem. People take the demo perk for one reason and one reason only. To get the highest kill count. It's even easier to get the highest kill count as a demo than it is as a SS, so these guys blast grenades whenever theres more than one ZED within 10 feet of each other. Self restraint and team work isn't in these guys dictionary, they just want all the kills they can get for an e-peen measuring contest.

One of the most annoying things for me when I was trying to get stalker kills for my commando was I would see 2 or three stalkers right in front of me and I would just have time to aim and start firing before *BAM* nothing but nade smoke in front of me. So fine I sight in on another group *BAM* nade smoke.

It's unnecessary and extremly annoying. As a commando I can thin out hoards just as well and I can do it without,

A) inhibiting my other team with fog of war
B) running out of ammo before the end of the round
C) making it far more difficult for the team to kill FP's and skrakes
D) being a kill stealing asshat who robs money from the rest of the team

I rarely use my demo because it so hard to make myself useful, the only reason I touch it is to level it up.

 

[MasterCheff]

being a demo isn't pretty but its only good on some maps such as defence and small maps

 

[Zerethon]

being a demo isn't pretty but its only good on some maps such as defence and small maps

Words cannot begin to explain how wrong you are

For instance, you can arc grenades completely across farm, any map with a high ceiling you can launch them vertically and land them over walls & barriers you normally cant shoot through, etc.

Demo, when played well, is the best trash-clearing perk, and second-best heavy trapper with welded door + Pipes, but cant tank the door as well as a support can

That right there is the problem. People take the demo perk for one reason and one reason only. To get the highest kill count. It's even easier to get the highest kill count as a demo than it is as a SS, so these guys blast grenades whenever theres more than one ZED within 10 feet of each other. Self restraint and team work isn't in these guys dictionary, they just want all the kills they can get for an e-peen measuring contest.

One of the most annoying things for me when I was trying to get stalker kills for my commando was I would see 2 or three stalkers right in front of me and I would just have time to aim and start firing before *BAM* nothing but nade smoke in front of me. So fine I sight in on another group *BAM* nade smoke.

This, i typically only nade at teammates when they get a clot/crawler/whatever on them and they have something bigger (Like a scrake) to worry about

I typically end up about the middle of the board kill-wise, i'm more focused on trapping heavy ZED's and clearing out groups of 5+ at a time than just spamming at everything and hoping to get the most kills

'less i'm bored and playing beginner to kill time, then i kill anything that moves and throw the money at everyone else

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

yeah it really is a shame because as with all the perks, the perk itself is not a bad perk or has bad weapons......the problem is the individual player. a good demo player knows when to shoot and when not too, just like a good firebug when to shoot/grenade and when not too. problem is people deciding to not learn how to use the perk and just play with the same basic style for every perk.

although it always is pretty funny when a level4 demo shoots a stalker 2ft away from him and blows himself up.

 

[Zerethon]

yeah it really is a shame because as with all the perks, the perk itself is not a bad perk or has bad weapons......the problem is the individual player. a good demo player knows when to shoot and when not too, just like a good firebug when to shoot/grenade and when not too. problem is people deciding to not learn how to use the perk and just play with the same basic style for every perk.

although it always is pretty funny when a level4 demo shoots a stalker 2ft away from him and blows himself up.

Better, the ones who camp on icebreaker by the glitched invisible wall at the top of the dual stairs, the wall stopping you from jumping over the railing will cause nades to blow up in your face if you aim up too much

Always gets me a laugh

 

[HaTeMe]

There's something wrong with Demolitions now? You people take this game way too seriously.

Kicking people from games just because they want to play certain perks? Damn, just give me the IPs so I know what servers to stay away from.

Have we now reached the point where we're just looking for something to ***** at? Cuz this is what it seems like.

Indeed. Some of these complaints are just ridiculous. "Remove Demolitions perk".. You know, the time there wasnt demolitions perk ppl were requesting for it. So now that they added one, ppl complain it should be removed when theres not rly anything wrong with it apart from the smoke effect which can be fixed without removing the whole perk.

I like some diversity in the game, and more perks = more diversity. So, I dont really care if some of the perks are less powerful than others or more annoying than others, I rather have them than no perks at all.

 

[SocksFoHands]

Removing the perk would be stupid, you can't take content out of a game once its been put in. Just remove the damn smoke and 90% of peoples gripe with it would be gone.

 

[DocDave]

The smoke is fine. I like the smoke. In fact, there should be more.

 

[Zerethon]

The smoke is fine. I like the smoke. In fact, there should be more.

This

I Want to fill the entirety of farm in deadly choking white smoke every single time somebody complains about it

The POINT of it is to make it hard to see, and it's only a problem if you or your demo are absolutely TERRIBLE, because good demos aim Behind/Beside mobs, causing the smoke to backdrop them - not obscure them

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

would if the smoke affected the specimen? allow it to make it difficult for them to spot you and your squad. you'd think the effect would be recipricle right? right now the smoke just screens people like SS trying to headshot FP/scrakes and commandos trying to mop up crawlers....at least commandos can see the healthbars through the smoke and guess where things are at. if the smoke blinded the "not so smart" specimen and possibly slowed them down because they were disoriented, maybe the smoke wouldn't be that bad.

and any suggestion for more smoke.....i do hope that is sarcasim.

 

[Colt .45 killer]

this made me wana go play demoman, and i now will.

 

[DocDave]

would if the smoke affected the specimen? allow it to make it difficult for them to spot you and your squad.

Actually not a bad idea... the only thing is, I'm not sure players need more tools to "grief" Zeds with.

and any suggestion for more smoke.....i do hope that is sarcasim.

Not at all.

PS: If people's one-dimensional teams weren't composed entirely of perks with long-range T3 weapons this wouldn't be nearly so large an issue. Throw in a firebug or Zerk who know what they are doing, and they will easily pick up the slack at closer ranges. Yet another issue caused by T3 broken junk. I always play close-ranged perks, know what the hell I'm doing, and my teams rarely if ever have problems because of demo smoke. I just pick up a little more slack from the SS/Commando, which is easy since demo thins ranks quite nicely.

 

[Herborist]

I love playing demo on normal - my damage is more than adequate, and my pipe bombs are welcomed. On hard and suicidal my damage gets downright insulting, and the smoke clouds bother people to no end. Our damage output needs to be increased somehow, and the price of the M32 and M79 should be decreased. If those changes are implemented, then the white smoke cloud can stay, but otherwise it's a drawback to a weapon set that's already sub par.

Oh, and, I'm a legitimate Lv. 6 demolitions - I didn't farm, I've just been playing a lot and it built up over time. Of course that says nothing about my skill level. I haven't seen any really good demo's in a while, probably because going from 1 ~ 6 is difficult as hell, and most people abandon it after 3/4 when they try hard or suicidal.

 

[anthracy]

Demo, when played well, is the best trash-clearing perk

Uh.... Commando? And no, it is probably one of the worst perks, anything gets close and guess what? You die. I have NEVER seen a demo survive on suicidal wave 6+ even at level 5 and 6.

 

[Zerethon]

Uh.... Commando? And no, it is probably one of the worst perks, anything gets close and guess what? You die. I have NEVER seen a demo survive on suicidal wave 6+ even at level 5 and 6.

Demo can trap entire trash spawns of 20+ ZED's and then obliterate them with a well-placed pipe and M32/M79 round

Good demos also know that point-blank nades to a specs head can decap them, Stuns some ZED's even

Be backed up by a Zerker, a L6 Demo+ L6 Zerker pairing can have the rest of a team on suicidal wondering why the only mobs they are seeing are FP's and scrakes

Commando is not nearly as ammo-efficient as a good demo on suicidal, even with a T3, Don't know where you get that delusion

 

[Ruckus]

On public server haven't seen any good demos on suicidal surviving either or being useful. I see a few demos go up to round 3 or so, but they always change perks to something useful.

 

[omarfw]

Instead, how about they added the explosives to the firebug class. I mean, firebug is a pyro, right? pyro is all pyrotechnics and thats fireworks, which are explosives. With firebug already having the flamethrower, it could have been given weaker explosives without making the class useless. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

fireworks is pyrotechnics yes but they are not explosives. they do explode yes, but you could never use some fireworks to blast a hole in something big.

 

[widowmaker]

Sounds like everyone here is complaining about people who suck at playing demo. I've seen people excel over everyone else in all classes. People just need to learn how to use their perks properly. Demo is great at clearing groups of clots, crawlers, stalkers, sirens, even gorefasts in some situations. People just need to know when to pull the trigger.
Don't blame the perk if the tool using it isn't sharp.

 

[anthracy]

It's sad that a gorefast can take a direct hit with a GRENADE from a nade LAUNCHER on suicidal and just shrug it off.

If they balance it a little, demo could be useful, all I am saying is that commando > demo as of now.

 

[SocksFoHands]

It's sad that a gorefast can take a direct hit with a GRENADE from a nade LAUNCHER on suicidal and just shrug it off.

If they balance it a little, demo could be useful, all I am saying is that commando > demo as of now.

I agree it's dumb a grenade launcher can't one hit a gorefast but the fact it can't is all that is keeping the demo perk becoming a cancer on this game. If you think it's annoying having an abundance of sharp shooters with M14s try having all those guys as demos with smoke spewing M32s instead.

The game would become unplayable overnight because every other perk would never get a kill again. Then the whole team would die when the first FPs/skrakes show up.