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Beta Map [MAP] Bridges of Druzhina Beta5

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#241
Panzerlied said:
Was it a TaT member that told you this? If not then that's the usual sort of response, or lack thereof I see when dealing with random players.
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No it wasn't an member but a server regular, however clan members (presumably admin) were present and did absolutely nothing. The game predictably ended as a lopsided victory for the Germans with their commander having over 200 kills by the end of the match.
 
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#243
Having not played Red Orchestra 2 in months this is actually the first map I played after my lengthy hiatus. And what a map to play! You really have done something outstanding here. Even though I felt like my experience was marred somewhat by the issues I have with the core RO2 gameplay, the design of Bridges of Druzhina seems to mitigate many of those issues (and I don't expect you to make a new game mode either!). I am at the very least happy to see that the likes of the Mkb42 were purged. I thought I hadn't encountered any due to the scale of the map, but nope, seems they were gone.

I love the variations in both environment and by extension applicable playstyle. There is a healthy mix of long range and close quarters combat, which can play the different strengths and weaknesses of the teams. Fighting in the cityscape was great as I could look around and see small squads holding different streets and avenues of approach. It was a feeling unlike any RO2 map to date.

Although a lot of Red Orchestra 2's combined arms maps do just fine without tanks (because they are literally infantry maps with tanks thrown into them just so they can claim they have combined arms maps), your map would do well to keep the tank for the Russians and only the Russians. Why? Because it is asymmetrical. I love the idea of maps which are asymmetrically balanced, especially with respect to combined arms. The Russians need help in the form of armor, and German infantry anti-tank options are good enough to keep the T-34 at bay.

All in all, I'm very satisfied with what I saw. Although the Allies seldom won from what I saw, I'm sure that is just bad teamwork on their part. Keep up the good work!
 
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#245
EvilHobo said:
Although a lot of Red Orchestra 2's combined arms maps do just fine without tanks (because they are literally infantry maps with tanks thrown into them just so they can claim they have combined arms maps), your map would do well to keep the tank for the Russians and only the Russians. Why? Because it is asymmetrical. I love the idea of maps which are asymmetrically balanced, especially with respect to combined arms. The Russians need help in the form of armor, and German infantry anti-tank options are good enough to keep the T-34 at bay.

All in all, I'm very satisfied with what I saw. Although the Allies seldom won from what I saw, I'm sure that is just bad teamwork on their part. Keep up the good work!
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While I agree with a lot of what you are saying generally I disagree on this map. Without a good tank and good teamwork this map borders on impossible for the Allies; if you don't have a good tank you will lose. Hearing people complain about poor tank play is really common.

On the other side, playing against a good tank and team as the Axis makes for an agonizing 45 minutes as you watch the tank rack up something like 75 kills.

This just is not the right map for having a tank on only one side.
 
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#249
Played some recent matches on the latest version of this map. The tank isn't as bad as I thought it would be but there is still some very apparent issues that need to be ironed out - those issues (AT rifle tweaks, Tank tweaks, lack of launchers due to time/battle, etc.) lean more on the vanilla end then the map itself.

Concerning the map - Caps F and G are both still very awkwardly designed and laid out capture points that don't look believably natural as I stated in my first feedback post. I've heard many others on the servers I played on state this as well.

I have yet to see a battle get into the urban portion of the map unfortunately.
 
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#251
Mike_Nomad said:
Spare me the personal digs.... We at RGN happened to like and enjoy the map in its infantry only config.

We are NOT asking for nor do we care for * ANY * tanks in Bridges of Druzhina. Infantry Only would be just dandy as Harley promised.
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Spare me the wacky formatting... you are a player who has professed to never having played as a Soviet despite now clocking in at over 1600 hours of the game.​

I am hardly of the impression that you should be a reference point for balance, given that you only ever play one side and have never experienced the other. I am sorry that you might not able to guarantee victory for the Fatherland against the Slavic bot hordes for time immemorial. The Germans do not need a tank as they have enough of an advantage as it is from what I can tell. Infantry Only will be disastrous for the Russians as German infantry can stall them indefinitely at the first bridge. This is my opinion as both a designer and a person who plays both sides.
 
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#252
EvilHobo said:
Spare me the wacky formatting... you are a player who has professed to never having played as a Soviet despite now clocking in at over 1600 hours of the game.​
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True, well over 1600 hours.... playing both sides. Never say never as its not true.

I am hardly of the impression that you should be a reference point for balance, given that you only ever play one side and have never experienced the other. I am sorry that you might not able to guarantee victory for the Fatherland against the Slavic bot hordes for time immemorial. The Germans do not need a tank as they have enough of an advantage as it is from what I can tell. Infantry Only will be disastrous for the Russians as German infantry can stall them indefinitely at the first bridge. This is my opinion as both a designer and a person who plays both sides.
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Your impressions are irrelevant. How many hours have you in this particular map? The Germans can hold the Russians as well as the Russians storming through the German lines. Its called tactical strategy. I've seen it many times in the well over thirty five hours we have in the map already.

Sorry, you are mistaken. ;)
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#254
If I recall, Harley created this map and tested it mainly using classic mode, this I admire. If you had bothered to play classic mode, you would understand you cannot run like you do in quake, and you do not have access to your wunder-waffen hero upgrades. The map is much more challenging in classic mode, and the addition of the T-34 still does not gain the Russians victory, without Quality teamwork.

I hope Harley continues down this path
 
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#255
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#256
ross said:
So you would say, then, that the balance is about right? Cool. I'd agree. Asymmetrical it is, then.
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That's without the tank..... ;)

We do not use the tank or allow it to enter into play.

You see, what happens is the skirmishes and battles all over the map cease to exist. Russian Troops follow the tank to protect it and the Germans attack those troops. The map becomes "tank-centric".

The battles for different areas of the fields and each building are gone as the tank dominates as a center of action. Germans trying to destroy it and Russians defending it. That gameplay gets old in a hurry.

That's why we requested an INFANTRY ONLY version and Harley promised us it would be done. The map is an exquisite infantry only combat map - absolutely superb from both side's point of view.
 
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#257
That's odd, because I saw mostly the opposite. Perhaps I am just cursed with terribly retarded teammates or something, but on at least two occasions I noticed our infantry were a) nowhere near the tank, and b) watching happily as German sappers chased it around.

The tank takes long enough to arrive at the front by the later stages of the map that it often supports the existing combat, not the other way around. The only place the infantry even seemed to stick to the tank at all was just past the first bridge - a point up to which it made sense, especially since they weren't following it directly so much as moving parallel to it in extended line.
 
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#258
Firstly I want thank Harley for a great map, it's definately one of my favorites. I've had great time playing in it many times but unfortunately today that wasn't the case... (I get back to that later.) It's also shame that they decided to force that spawn on squadleader feature in every map cos it sort of ruins the balance. I wonder what they were trying to accomplish with such a creatively limiting decision.

I don't know if this thread is right place for bug reporting but i do it anyways because it's affecting this map. So today i was playing as german antitanker and I got stuck multiple times to ground when i had deployed my gun on top of the hill that is watching over objective G. I couldn't move just switch between stances, only way to continue playing was to commit suicide or get killed by enemy. Though it wouldn't be surprise if the root of this problem was in the deploying system itself and not in this map or it's geography cos I have been stuck like this with mg even in some stock maps. Nevertheless for me it made playing at- class pain in the *** and thus I suggest to look if there is something wrong with terrain around the very top of that hill.
 
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#259
ross said:
That's odd, because I saw mostly the opposite. Perhaps I am just cursed with terribly retarded teammates or something, but on at least two occasions I noticed our infantry were a) nowhere near the tank, and b) watching happily as German sappers chased it around.
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Could be..... :)​
The tank takes long enough to arrive at the front by the later stages of the map that it often supports the existing combat, not the other way around. The only place the infantry even seemed to stick to the tank at all was just past the first bridge - a point up to which it made sense, especially since they weren't following it directly so much as moving parallel to it in extended line.
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Hmmm....... that tank can zoom across the plains over the river or through the river and be in the burbs in no time flat. all it need do is go via the flanks. Like I said we've played many , many hours in this map and arrived at the decision that the tank is a distraction for us. ​

Different strokes... for different folks. ;)
 
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#260
ross said:
That's odd, because I saw mostly the opposite. Perhaps I am just cursed with terribly retarded teammates or something, but on at least two occasions I noticed our infantry were a) nowhere near the tank, and b) watching happily as German sappers chased it around.

The tank takes long enough to arrive at the front by the later stages of the map that it often supports the existing combat, not the other way around. The only place the infantry even seemed to stick to the tank at all was just past the first bridge - a point up to which it made sense, especially since they weren't following it directly so much as moving parallel to it in extended line.
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If the tank is being chased it is doing things wrong; there are many spots where it is easy for the tank to be effective without ever being in danger. A good tank with a good team makes for an agonizing 45 minutes for the Axis.

I agree that the idea of an asymmetrical map is good, but I remain unconvinced that this map is the right one for such a thing. On a 45 minute map with so many objectives it can be really pain for the tank to be on the map.
 
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