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Listen to your fanbase

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#21
Out of those, I don't think tickets asymmetry is enough on its own, as it doesn't give an advantage while the game is going.

However, we can use asymmetry in:
- weapons (including smoke, arty, ...)
- classes (including tanks)
- available ammo
- spawn distance
- spawn time
- and I don't know why this is so shocking to some: team size
 
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#22
I think some of the asymmetry in the current game is ok, though its hit or miss and the devil is in the details.

I like Grain Elevator. Yes, when you're new, you will get spawn killed until you learn where to take cover. It can get repetitive if your team coordinates badly and puts you in a stalemate (just like any other RO2 map). However, I personally enjoy the challenge of playing German on the map, knowing that the chips are stacked against me... I sort of like getting revenge on the Russians for my prior deaths on the map.

By contrast, I hate Apartments. That's a map that feels too asymmetrical to me. It's way too constricted, there aren't enough options to outsmart the team that has you pinned down...as the Russians, it tends to just be a matter of running out and getting mowed down over and over till the enemy slips up.

That being said, I always find it interesting when I play the defending side on these asymmetrical maps, that it's not as easy as it looks. You might assume it's going to be turkey shoot, but if your team gets lazy, you can get overrun pretty fast.

I would rather see more of this type of balance-through-map design, as long as it's done well, than artificial weapon balancing via the sort of recoil boosts and prototype additions we saw in RO2.
 
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#23
The main thing I see which I think everyone is going to get upset about at release is the number of type 100s. Like a previous thread by Nikita noted, you can see in some trailers and stuff that the type 100 might get given to squad leaders as well as commander. On the other hand though, only giving it to commanders might result in commanders running into pillboxes and neglecting their other duties. The same thing could happen with squad leaders. In my opinion a good solution would be give it to assault class (I know they already have one, but we don't know the loadout) having only one guy with type 100 per Japanese team.
 
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#24
For purely balance reasons I don't think that commanders and squad leaders should have "better" weapons. I am playing mainly Classic now - and it's quite populated nowadays - and squad leader slot is often free, so I take it and use it more like a riflemen, trying not to risk myself too much because when commander calls for coordinates I am on site to mark them.
 
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#25
the mindset they have is dreadful "Tap into the COD market, ring in cash"

well congrats. your one of tens of thousands of teams that are ruining Series,Genras and even Themes of games.

and these are fully licensed teams! (ubisoft EA IW TA Souce ect) All of you are wanting to take FROM the COD marketplace instead of making a awhole new one. Remember how CoD got so big in the first place?

all they did was Think BIGGER.every game you can see them expand on their same simple idea. its like a evolution of a Mustang. it has its start.Peak. and downfall.

this single small expansion with what little there is to it thats basiclly its own game not a DLC and could be called RO3!

Think NEW. Think BIG and most of all.THINK!

what the hell made CounterStrike or QUAKE so addicting? IT HAD NOTHING! no unlocks ,levels. no you just sit and play. you turn off and loose your data cause there never was any! now adays. if your game does not have unlocks or attachments it is considered OUT OF DATE.Counter Strike is still on top 20.

Bring back the old with abit of ZAZ becuase everyone is looking for the next Big Thing. CoD is over sales are going down.nows the time to really put your heads together. and make the ultimate crowd pleaser.

RS looks like it will be fun for awhile im really hopin to place the free one (i shouldnt have to pay for a MOD thats 2 years late)

you guys at tripwire seldom listen to the community.if you would sit with your team. and teens,kids all people who play nowaday games. and ask them. what would they really want and expect To be in the ultimate WWII FPS.You will get a answer that will really bring in money. exmple (cross platform FPS with the a bility to tweak your gun with a tool kit, modfiying it and truely making it yours while adding 128vs128 teams during the battle of kursk. having huge fightsi n the distance fields to lonly sniper waiting for the commander to make his move miles behind enemy lines.ect~
 
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#26
Proud_God said:
Out of those, I don't think tickets asymmetry is enough on its own, as it doesn't give an advantage while the game is going.

However, we can use asymmetry in:
- weapons (including smoke, arty, ...)
- classes (including tanks)
- available ammo
- spawn distance
- spawn time
- and I don't know why this is so shocking to some: team size
Click to expand...

This can only work when you have a big team to balance it out and MONEY because every month balancing before release is a month without income but still ppl who want to be paid for their work.
 
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#27
Tenko said:
you guys at tripwire seldom listen to the community.if you would sit with your team. and teens,kids all people who play nowaday games. and ask them. what would they really want and expect To be in the ultimate WWII FPS.You will get a answer that will really bring in money. exmple (cross platform FPS with the a bility to tweak your gun with a tool kit, modfiying it and truely making it yours while adding 128vs128 teams during the battle of kursk. having huge fightsi n the distance fields to lonly sniper waiting for the commander to make his move miles behind enemy lines.ect~
Click to expand...
Well, this is basically ARMAII/Liberation 1944/Battleground Europe.
Its not really new, nor too sucessfull and I don't think its fitting for the RO-Franchise.
 
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#29
maybe, but not much.
RO should expand what it is, not try to become something else.
RO is about realistic, tactical and mediumscaled (platoon to company sized) Infantry and CA combat in WW2, and this is what it should stick to, imo.
I'm not saying they should block out innovation, but the innovation should be centered around the core.
 
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#30
potehto said:
The main thing I see which I think everyone is going to get upset about at release is the number of type 100s. Like a previous thread by Nikita noted, you can see in some trailers and stuff that the type 100 might get given to squad leaders as well as commander. On the other hand though, only giving it to commanders might result in commanders running into pillboxes and neglecting their other duties. In my opinion a good solution would be assault class (I know they already have one, but we don't know the loadout) having one guy with type 100 per Japanese team.
Click to expand...
Yeah, in general I think this mentality should have been used in gametypes where leaders don't get SMG's. Instead, their SMG should be given to a rifleman on the team.

For example, if each squad normally gets 8 riflemen, 1 assault, and 1 SL with SMG... then when the server option is set to disable SL SMG's, then it should become 7 riflemen, 2 assault, and 1 SL w/ rifle.

Also, I really wish they would ditch the class selection screen this time around, so you just go straight to squad selection (you would choose your class via the spot in the squad you pick - this makes you more conscious of your role on the team, and less conscious of just the weapon you get to kill with).
 
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#31
They did listen to their "fan base" when they wasted untold hours creating "classic mode" --- but based on thats reception I'm guessing their real fan base is much larger than those who post in forums, so generally I think they should use their best judgment for the profitability of RS in consideration of their vision for it & simply note our interests and which suggestions are workable in that context.
 
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#32
Johnny Utah said:
They did listen to their "fan base" when they wasted untold hours creating "classic mode" --- but based on thats reception I'm guessing their real fan base is much larger than those who post in forums, so generally I think they should use their best judgment for the profitability of RS in consideration of their vision for it & simply note our interests and which suggestions are workable in that context.
Click to expand...
I don't follow? Classic is being played on servers and it definitely has a following. TE Classic is what's being used in the TWI Ladder. And saying they wasted countless hours for the creation is lame cosidering all they had to do was tweak some perameters from Realism.
 
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#35
Nestor Makhno said:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/188631/
Click to expand...

So your way of showing us you guys aren't lazy is by shoving unwanted features into the game?

Yes, we can turn off the knee-mortar's dashed line and things of that nature but you can't tweak the overall flow of the game, which has already veered WAY off of from Darkest Hour.

Sadly, they are probably too far into development to make any drastic changes so this thread will probably be a far cry from accomplishing anything.

Sigh, oh well. Maybe RO3 will fix it.
 
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#36
Johnny Utah said:
They did listen to their "fan base" when they wasted untold hours creating "classic mode" --- but based on thats reception I'm guessing their real fan base is much larger than those who post in forums, so generally I think they should use their best judgment for the profitability of RS in consideration of their vision for it & simply note our interests and which suggestions are workable in that context.
Click to expand...

The problem is, these days, it seems any jackass who recognizes COD is popular suddenly thinks they're qualified to as a marketing analyst. The funny thing about marketing is that it requires you know your market. It's easy to forget in today's digital world that a huge component of any market is distribution. Take it from someone who works in publishing: until TWI sells out to a major publisher with the distribution to put Red Orchestra physical copies in places like Gamestop, Walmart, and CVS, available to the console user base, it's physically impossible for them to take a bite from COD's market.

Red Orchestra's market is physically limited, on account of distrubution, to just Steam. This is a market which excludes the average joe walking down the aisle of Target, or the kid screaming at his mom from the seat of the shopping cart to buy him a new game. This is a market limited to the niche audience of PC gaming - primarily indie gamers, a crowd often sick of the typical features of mainstream/console-tyle games. Marketing strategies designed to appeal to the general public may not appeal to a market limited to a single exclusionary niche audience. In this respect, attempting to sell Red Orchestra by modeling it after COD sounds a lot like attempting to win over indie rock scenesters by rewriting all your songs to sound more like Nickelback.
 
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#38
Eh, think about what you just implied.

RO's distribution of physical copies is so obscure, that even long time RO fans aren't aware of it's existence. Hence, it requires testimony from an "expert" from RO's staff to verify that physical copies exist.

Gigantic marketing fail.

By contrast, even people who hate COD and Battlefield can't help knowing whenever a new sequel is available in stores, because it's plastered all over TV, movie theaters, and the game section of store shelves.

When a game's only physical distribution is on PC, these days the only people who are going to see it on shelves and (maybe) pick it up are those venturing to that special dark corner of the store to pick up a physical copy of MS Word or Math Blaster..............the type that just converted from dialup, just started using facebook, and probably still use a CRT monitor.

No one's blaming TWI for lacking the marketing muscle of triple A publishers, but it only makes sense to work with what you've got.
 
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#39
Everyone knows when a new COD comes out because it happens every year :p
I bought RO2 in a store (and I regret it, german censorship ftw -.-).
RO2 is a niche game that'll never have 100 copies in each store that sells games (as you said), but what's the problem? It's not mainstream and will never be accepted/played by mainstream gamers.
I don't think TWI aims for that group.

And guys... work on your marketing, the circumstances aren't always the best but stuff like lagging/low quality streams (not your fault thu, but the result will be the same) or showing a gameplay that is full with this annoying jittery movement bug? Not the best way to publish a game :)
I'm pretty sure anybody who bought RO2 and likes it (because it's awesome) will buy RS on release but getting new/unaware players who might like it to this kind of genre will be hard with this marketing.
 
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#40
german censorship ftw
Click to expand...
Spoiler!
 
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