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Leading targets is awsome

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#21
Barleyman said:
"I can't come to bed yet. Someone in the Internet is Wrong."

In any case you must agree mixing the two is the least optimal situation.
Click to expand...

I know the difference between the two methods, on the surface at least.

I don't like being killed after I get behind cover or half way up the stairs. That's one thing.
And its OK whit me, if it also means I'm able to apply the same calculation for target lead every time you sprint for cover.

But that's the problem. From my "Client Side" of things.
I'm aiming at players that looks like they're missing beats, like some frames are missing, or not being displayed.
It looks like lag, but its not. That's why I call it a "Stop Motion movie"
This frame skipping behavior is not caused by hardware/drivers on the client side.
Its variable from server to server, from really bad to hardly noticeable.

I'm guessing it has to do with server hardware, server Tickrate or things like that.
Keep in mind also that I almost exclusively play on 64 servers.
The only time I see none of this stuttering, frame skipping, virtual lag crap. Is when play on Server Side.

That's why I say it doesn't work.

Let's get two decent 64 servers using each hit detection method on the table.
If possible, we could use the same map for reference.
 
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#22
=GG= Mr Moe said:
Always preferred Server-side hit detection. It felt more real, not to mention I can't stand ducking behind walls and objects... then getting shot :mad:
Click to expand...
This

I am pissed off by the client side hit detection, pretty much stopped to play the game due to the lack of servers without client side hit detection and those absurd delayed deaths, shoot first, score a perfect hit or even have time to make 2 very quick torso hits with bolts but die or get shot 2 seconds after being under cover etc ... just absurd, i hate it, the worst thing they done to this game for me.

If only, to start with, people didn't tried to play on 250+ ping servers and stick to servers close to them with low ping they had never complained about server side hit detection and we will not have the stupid client side hit detection we have now, but leading targets seems to be too much for some people nowadays, i always played games where i had to lead targets and never had a problem with it, now people want to play on servers located at the opposite side of the world and have a point on target and click game requiring no skills at all ... Like i said I'm pissed off by client side detection and away for RO2/RS because of this since a couple of months, it is way worse in RS than RO2 btw :(
 
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#24
El_Swine said:
I'm aiming at players that looks like they're missing beats, like some frames are missing, or not being displayed.
It looks like lag, but its not. That's why I call it a "Stop Motion movie"
This frame skipping behavior is not caused by hardware/drivers on the client side.
Its variable from server to server, from really bad to hardly noticeable.

I'm guessing it has to do with server hardware, server Tickrate or things like that.
Keep in mind also that I almost exclusively play on 64 servers.
The only time I see none of this stuttering, frame skipping, virtual lag crap. Is when play on Server Side.
Click to expand...

That doesn't really sound like a hit detection issue at all but the server/client being overloaded or perhaps the network between them. On server congestion SSHD makes hitting people darn difficult as now the lag can vary from frame to frame.

Lag is bad, so is overextending the server. Warping and packet loss is double plus ungood.

I got burned out from bot-leveling my guns, I should find some time to actually go play the game.. For me CSHD fixed the close and mid-range firing. It now feels pretty natural dropping the lead the closer the bad guy is. And when they're in your face about to showe a pig-sticker into your guts it becomes harder again to hit anything! It's fun rushing mr SVT-40 from behind corner with a bayonet KAR98k with the other guy panicking and perforating the walls.
 
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#26
ITT: People hating on client-side hit detection because they're too stupid to understand they got shot whilst in the open.

Come on, you failed at running for cover just your own client lied to you temporarily.

Server-side hit detection was HORRIBLE and it should never return, having to lead shots because of pings is ridiculous.
 
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#27
MrHello said:
ITT: People hating on client-side hit detection because they're too stupid to understand they got shot whilst in the open.
Click to expand...

This is a wrong assessment.

You have two machines, on one the person firing sees the person in the open, on the other the target who on his machine he has made it to cover.

In this case, Client side gives the benefit of the doubt always to the person firing, ignoring all the efforts the target made to get under cover.

It really is a matter of preference, NOT one of right or wrong because in that situation, the firing person looses out if it is server side hit detection and the difference in ping is great enough. The other, the target looses out with Client side.

What it comes down to is a matter of opinion and preference :D
 
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#28
I can honestly say I've never died while being in cover.
just what set of circumstances have to be in place to make it happen?
some of you guys make it sound like a common happening. if it is, I must be doing something right on accident.
I much prefer the hit-detection as it is defaulted to now. I hated it when you had no idea how far to lead a guy because it was based on ping instead of real-life shooting.
 
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#30
It happens all the time to everybody.
But it depends on the server and the player count on that server and a few other factors.
Try setting your audio to 128 channels instead of the default 32 and you'll even hear it, by not hearing it.

I play on many different servers and all are 64 player.
I got 8 different Engine.ini files I use for testing with perhaps as much as 30 variables in total.
I've tested at least 10 different graphics drivers. And I'm also testing with at least 20 bios and windows tweaks.
All aimed at lowering latency and more.

It turns out that pretty much all of it have very little impact on the game.
At least on the issues I've brought up in this thread, they remain persistent no matter what I do on my side.
The only thing that really seams to have a BIG impact on gameplay and hit detection and overall smoothness.
Is Server Side Hit Detection.

With Client Side Hit Detection I see warping, stutter, frame skipping in the movements of the players or tanks.
Its observable on all 64 servers, but again it varies pr server and also from player to player.
Some players warp or frame skip more than others.
And I think that's quite telling evidence based on observation.

So its not so much a matter of liking one Hit detection method more than the other.
Its about having a smooth and predictable experience, witch is all important for leading targets.

There's much to love and enjoy in the game but I miss the champagne moments.
 
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#31
El_Swine said:
With Client Side Hit Detection I see warping, stutter, frame skipping in the movements of the players or tanks.
Its observable on all 64 servers, but again it varies pr server and also from player to player.
Some players warp or frame skip more than others.
Click to expand...

I never see that on my end. Like I said before, server-side detection always made shots extremely unpredictable even at pings lower than 100.
 
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#33
akb said:
This thread is pretty much why I quit the game. The laggying, stuttering, inconsistency of the servers, player, and the connection. I just couldn't take it anymore. Don't ever build a gme on UE3 again. I never had any problems with Ostfront that I couldn't handle.
Click to expand...
the thread was supposed to be about hit detection, but somehow people think client-side hit detection is responsible for all RO2's other problems. :confused:
 
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#35
Just scroll back in the forums for about 2 years and see all the discussions about server side/client side hit detection.

Server side hit detection was by far the most horrible thing in this game as shown by the amount of complaints this brought. I remember how stupid server side hit detection was with its insane leading of shots. Shooting a running target at 100 meter distance with any kind of consistency was almost impossible if your ping was 100ms or higher. Add to that each single time you switched a server (and so, your ping changed), you had to readjust your aiming.

Mekhazzio's mutator is the major reason that there is still some sort of playerbase left for RO2.

For reference:

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=59113&highlight=clientside+detection

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=75509&highlight=clientside+detection
 
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#37
Moe,

I played RO 1 and RO 2 from China on servers based in Russia, USA, Australia and the US. My ping was anywhere inbetween 90ms to 380 ms (I know, insane). Leading targets at 300 ms in ROOST was still somewhat okay. RO 2 with its increased running speeds made me lead targets on Grain Elevator (from 4th floor to outside) by as much as 3-4 meters.

Clientside hit detection allows any player in the world to play on almost any server in the world. Personally, I'd say a ping of 400+ is impossible to play and most players think pings above 150 ms are unplayable. If server-side hit detection would still be the only option, I bet you 100 bucks, the playerbase would be at 400 for a long time already simply because many players cannot find any server with decent player numbers in their region.

Changing to clientside hit detection expanded RO2's lifspan. Except you don't mind shooting bots with a ping of 50ms.
 
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#38
El_Swine said:
What other problems?
Click to expand...
seriously? you were one of the ones blaming client-side hit detection for, " warping, stutter, frame skipping" and "They all lag like ****", prompting another forum member to add "laggying, stuttering, inconsistency of the servers", to the list of problems caused by client-side.

I see this as a non-issue. I've never gotten killed behind cover, that couldn't be penetrated by bullets, without knowing I was shot trying to get to the cover and bleeding out afterwards. I've died plenty of times in 2,500 hours in the game. but never have I had the problem you guys are saying is such a game-breaker. why is that? I asked what set of circumstances are needed for it to happen and got no answer. is it because i'm the guy with the high ping?

it really sounds to me, in your original post, that you've been playing on servers with server-side detection and found yourself a client-side server and suddenly realized why client-side became the default. but to be honest, it was one of the most confusing posts I've read in a while. I guess i'm just not getting it.
 
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#39
r5cya said:
Post
Click to expand...

I merely stated stated why I had quit the game and did not attribute them directly to client-side hit detection but to all that swine had mentioned. Whether or not the issues I mentioned branch from client-side hit detection I don't know. I was just agreeing that there are many issues: laggying, stuttering, inconsistency of the servers, player, and the connections.

What he's saying is there are shots that should be hitting that just plain and simple aren't hitting. The more players a server has the more I've noticed the problem This is do to a poor engine, unoptamized server(poorly optamized), overloaded servers, possibly a bug in client-side hit detection? Either way it's not as fluid, predictable when leading targets for me as it was in Ro Ostfront.
 
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#40
Sensemann said:
Just scroll back in the forums for about 2 years and see all the discussions about server side/client side hit detection.
Click to expand...

You are correct. I remember it too. It was bad time for everybody, including me.
But as you point out that was almost 2 years ago. This is now.
Comparing "SSHD" to ROOST is relevant, because it was working then.
It also worked in the early beta testing, but it was horrible especially on 64 servers after release.
And it was bugging the hell out of everyone including veterans from ROOST and DH.

Anyway. Let me once again try to explain what I perceive is is wrong.
First. Keep in mind. I only play on 64 servers and I've only tested on 64 servers when they are full.
My first I thought was that it was a problem on my side. So I checked and tweaked hardware, BIOS, OS, drivers, ini files etc.
But nothing I do on my side have any effect on the problem I'm observing.

And what I'm observing is a again, warping, stutter, frame skipping in the movements of the players or tanks.
Its observable on all 64 servers, but again it varies pr server and also from player to player.
Some players warp or frame skip more than others.

Its normal for the gameplay experience to change from one server to another.

But here's the thing. The inconstancy I observe in the player movement remains regardless of the ping.
That being your ping or mine. And again. My FPS or graphics settings or ini tweaks has no effect either.

With the old hit detection method, you knew a player had high ping when he was frame skipping.
But how do you explain it when it happens everybody, including low ping players.
This is why I say, it looks like lag but then again its not.

Here's how I came to realize this is a server problem and possibly hit detection method.
I was testing some ini tweaks, server tickrate etc and jumped into the first available FULL 64 server.

Suddenly the gameplay was BUTTER SMOOTH and all observable players on the server was fluid in their movements.
No stuttering or frame skipping, anywhere, it was Night & Day by comparison :eek:

I got extremely exited and thought I had finally found the cure by tweaking the engine.ini file.
I didn't even stay to finish the round. I exited the game and saved the ini file and made a promsise to myself not to touch it again.
I got back into the game on jumped into the first 64 server.
But the smoothness was gone. I thought WTF and jumped from server to server but it was gone :mad:

That's when I started to realize the problem I was observing was ALL related to servers.

At the time of my first post. I didn't know we had both Hit detection methods in use. But I was hinting at it.
When somebody told me a few post after, it suddenly made sense of the inconsistency in target lead I've felt for so long.
But that's only half the puzzle as far as I'm concerned.
There's still that stuttering that completely vanished from one server to the next.

I suspect that "Unicorn" server was running SSHD because the hit detection I perceived was exactly the same as in ROOST and in the early beta stages of RO2 and it was smooth.
But I don't know for sure. It might just be a monster server with all the right settings and Uber hardware.:confused:

I've been searching for SSHD Servers since then and found they are rare.
And its hard for me to prove if the stuttering steams from server hardware or settings, or Hit detection method.
So please, If you know about a 64 server running Server Side Hit Detection, let me know.

QUOTE:
So its not so much a matter of liking one Hit detection method more than the other.
Its about having a smooth and predictable experience, witch is all important for leading targets.
 
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