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Tactics Kriegstadt: Taking the Final Objective

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#21
People have really mastered the defense on this map. Sometimes, even if the russians have crummy tankers, the russian infantry can still pull though, not so on a round I played yesterday. Germans managed to hold the Dornburg appartments for over 45 minutes. For the first 30 minutes, me and EvilHobo got into the appartments together about 6 or 7 times. Thing is... our tankers kept shelling us once we got in, so all of our attacks were blunted.

Adding to this was the accurate fire of 2 machinegunners that were wiping out 85% of the guys before they could even make it to the cap zone.

Once I hopped into an SU I was able to clear out all of the obvious germans that our old tankers kept missing, I even pushed forward, cleared out the pak gun position, the building to the left and back of the Dornburg, their hidden machinegunners. But alas, our infantry had no heart left.

We capped it with about 12 minutes left but by that time it was utterly hopeless.
 
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#22
In that instance I attribute the Allied loss not just to the efforts of the Axis but moreso to the incompetence of the Allied tankers. So many times we almost had it capped, or had a strong, fast cap, and then BOOM! 3-4 Russians dead, cap turns 50-50 and Axis reinforcements arrive or is outright reversed.

Funker, rarely if ever have I seen the Axis run out of reinforcements. Sometimes it gets low, but it rarely hits 0. I attribute this to either superior Russian tankers or dreadfully oblivious German, with a combination of the two yielding disaster. It you could state the times at which they ran out, it might shed some more light on the reinforcements issue.
 
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#24
There is the Rambo method. Tanks clear the windows as much as possible on both sides. A couple of rifles help the MG move up to the rubble pile to cover spawning Germans. Psycho squad leader makes a highly motivated bayo charge through the front of the three story building and makes his way to the third floor where he causes so much chaos and destruction the Germans forget they have a whole bridge full of Russians. The squad leader is in the cap, the attention of the Germans is diverted, the rest of the Russian team hits the cap zone.

Both times I've seen the Russians win involved this tactic. You can usually work your way along the third floor windows and get a whole crop of shanks. If the tankers are listening, they won't even reduce you to hamburger with HE. I don't know that the Squad Leader Rush will work in later versions or once people get used to the map, but it has proven effective so far. If nothing else, it reduced the necessary clanners from 10 down to 1.
 
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#26
EvilHobo said:
Funker, rarely if ever have I seen the Axis run out of reinforcements. Sometimes it gets low, but it rarely hits 0. I attribute this to either superior Russian tankers or dreadfully oblivious German, with a combination of the two yielding disaster. It you could state the times at which they ran out, it might shed some more light on the reinforcements issue.
Click to expand...

Ok ;) Well to be fair, I haven't seen the Russians win any other time so its just once (except a few times playing one on one with someone which I lost), but one time as the Germans we got down to 15% while holding on to the Hotel which the majority of the battle took place. I think I attribute this to the Russian tanks not actually attacking and the Germans leaving the hotel towards the Bank in attempt to take out the tanks and were getting slaughtered.

Eventually, everyone retreated past the bridge after we hit 10% and we were run down to 0% fairly quickly by tanks shooting windows. And it was a 54 player server.
 
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#28
A tip for tankers: try to announce that you will not fire into the ground floor & a certain side. I avoid shelling the usual areas that the allies first enter when assaulting, & keep the barrel hot.
Also dump shells in choice enemy positions, just to make it known to the axis that certain areas are off limits.

My 2c!
 
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#30
my 2 cents

my 2 cents

IMHO It's almost impossible for the allies to cap the last objective with even and balanced teams (skillwise speaking).

The only time I've seen allies win is:
1. The allies outnumbered the axis and/or had more experienced players (read:clan guys)
2. The axis faust guys and/or machine gunners were horribly incompetent. (This is more of an addition to point #1)

A couple of times the axis also came close to 0% reinf, but that's only because their leaders encouraged them to rush up instead of staying put and defending (or retreating) earlier in the game.


My point is - with a proper German team you can hold that bridge for the entire hour if you want too. I've actually seen the axis loose everything in the first 15 minutes and then successfully hold the bridge for about 50 minutes.

-p.


Also someone mentioned abandoning tanks and running into spawn to get a new one earlier in the thread. It's probably better to just do a suicide drive into the German spawn thus providing the infantry guys with some cover as they move up.
 
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#31
Ive been playing this map a bit as both axis and allies. As axis it seems like every map gets down to the last few seconds holding out Moltke, with good positioning of MG's being vital. Far too many mgers are trying to own the whole battlefield rather than locking down a small but vital portion.

Playing as allies though Ive yet to get beyond dornburg. Seriously each of the 4 time ive been on allies weve been stalled massively on the first few objectives. What about some tips to get he attack rolling? As far as I can see the main difference on this map is someone shouting orders and getting the allies going, but there may be some things im missing on the early objectives. Oh, and not allowing Hamburg to get in that damnable pantherturm! :D
 
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#34
I just came back from playing a feirce battle in kriegstadt, ending in a russian victory.:eek: Our tankers were smart and cooperated with each other and us using voip. The main tactic we found effective was for the infantry th move up the LEFT side of the bridge. By hugging the rail and hiding behind the block thingees, I (and often my teammates) were able to make our way to the mound. Then, once we enough men in the cap, we would call in the tank to suppourt us. The tank, usualy an IS2, was an imposing presence in the cap, and allied rifle fire from the mound would deny axis the left building. This limited the panzerfaust fire coming towards the tankers, who could then provide suppourt for infantry moving up.:D

This method is not foolproof at all, but ut worked in the end, even with the Germans having a healthy reinforcement count.
 
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#35
I see one solution: mass wave attack. Attacking to the extend of only running to get to the cap.

When the game reaches that point, Allies usually have about %60 reinf and Germans have around %6-0 and about 12-10 minutes left. If you stay back and try to pick of the Germans before getting in the cap, you'll run out of time. What you need to do is get your *** up and run to the capzone with your friends. Your tanks will be responsible of blowing that mean MG'ers out, and from what I've seen, most of them know their job ;)

I was surprised to see that in one game, Axis defended the last cap with 0 reinforcements for 9 minutes on a full public server. But it's a shame that Allies got the cap when there was 15 seconds left :) They would be able to take it much earlier, if they all played for the caps and not for the frags.
 
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#38
It's ironic that Phil is in here talking about struggling to cap the Dornburg Apartments since he did such an impressive job of raping the Russians outside the Dornburg Apartments a couple days earlier.

Every time I play this map I get more and more impressed.

At Dornburg, there's a big sticking point where the tanks can't come around the corner without getting fausted and the infantry can't rush the apartments unless the tanks are suppressing all the fire. Tough spot; I'm not sure I know the answer as a Russian, but I know our tankers weren't using the MGs liberally and some Germans actually counterattacked to retake a key Russian position.

In re: German reinforcement levels: Is there anything that shows up in server logs that can tell you whether the Germans have ever run out?
I haven't seen it happen, but I just haven't played the map as many times as I would like.
 
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#39
Ive seen the axis at 0% reinf about 3 times, in each case it was on a large server (luftwaffe IIRC, so ~50 players) and happened around the last 1-3 mins in each case, twice leading to very narrow Russian victories. I should add that in these cases the Axis players were being very careful and well organised, as were the opponents. Russian tankers were key in the 2 russian victories, with the SU and an MG locking down the approach to the right building (from axis POV) and the IS2 being used as cover for inf.
 
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