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Beta Map KF-Outpost13_Beta1

its me again

this is a good map. its removed from the whitelist. i guess the reason for the removal is a pathingproblem that stucks the zeds on a corner making them easy targets.

can someone look into this?
if its a major problem leave it
if its pushing some pathnodes 5 pixels to the right please do it.

lets whitlist this beauty again and have fun with it.

thanx in advance :eek:
 
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I will take a look. Seems like the author abandoned the project, his last visit to the forums was like year ago.

EDIT: If I find a download link that works.
EDIT: I think I got the right one.

EDIT: Think Ive managed to fix the most of it, you shouldnt be able to access to the roof anymore or the topside, and some other minor exploits have been fixed. Cant see any actual pathing errors anywhere tho?

Also moved a few floating objects back to ground level, as well as resized the giant computer.

I will be posting it in the whitelisting thread soon.

EDIT: Posted it in the whitelisting thread, now we just have to wait and see if it passes.
 
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thanx sooooo much:D

You're welcome. I think the map will be whitelisted but will be delayd a bit because my download link was broken lol -_-

Aaand seems like someones already rating down my posts about this map (like I said it would happen :)), if adding a few blocking volumes to return great maps back on the whitelist is such a bad thing then mind explaining why? Is it because I moved the floating objects back to ground level? Or because I touched the giant computer even tho technically I shouldnt? I dont usually touch the visuals in any way but I dont see the harm in this specific case. However I understand if someone feels like its stepping over the line.
 
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Its about having respect for someone else's work. After what happened with Grimpen, I figured, I dunno, maybe you'd stop messing with other peoples work?

Hows adding the blocking volumes going to make it any different? They are invisible. If you want to play the exploitable version its still there.

And what exactly happened with Grimpen? I fixed the exploits, the author didnt like it, and it got removed. I always said if the author wants the fixed version to be removed then it will be, its his choice. I dont fix these maps just because "I want to", I fix them because people ask me to.

Would you prefer we (KEPT) just got the maps de-whitelisted and then leave it at that and no-one would play them anymore? I dont care wether a map is whitelisted or not because I have all level 6 perks but since some people consider whitelist removals to be KEPTs fault I only tried to help them by returning some of the maps back to the whitelist when the author isnt around anymore. And in Grimpens case, I was told TundraPuppy wasnt here anymore and he didnt reply to any attempts at contacting him so we assumed he was gone for good.

I NEVER touch a map if the author wishes me not to, unless he cant be reached and enough people request me to fix a map.
 
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You shouldn't touch a map unless the author wants you to though. Them's the rules. If there is a map you or someone else would like to see fixed but the author can't be reached then that's unfortunate, but in my opinion you should accept that then and move on.

Personally, I don't care what you do to these maps. They're not mine, I don't think I play them (often). Neither fixed, nor unfixed. I don't want to get into this discussion either.
Just dropped in to say that I'm with J.D. on this one as that's how it's been done amongst honorable folks in any modding community I've ever been in.
 
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Just dropped in to say that I'm with J.D. on this one as that's how it's been done amongst honorable folks in any modding community I've ever been in.

But how many of them had a whitelisting system like this one?

Its complicated tho because I get a lot of positive feedback from both players and certain mappers (in case of err... was it Police Station and the others) and a lot of people request me to fix these maps. But, I dont want to step in anyones toes here so if you feel like that then I have no problem stopping fixing the maps. But next time people request me to do something like this I'll point them your way :rolleyes:

Still, I dont see the harm in adding something invisible in the map to make it playable if it doesnt change the gameplay or the looks of the map in any way. Altho in some cases the overall gameplay revolves around the exploitable aspects of the map which - after fixed - might make it "less fun" for some people. But like I said you can always choose to play the original or the fixed one...
 
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It doesn't matter how many people want you to change a map unless the original author is among them.
Of course players won't care, because in their eyes you just fixed the map. Like you said, you just made invisible, surgical corrections to keep the maps alive like they arguably deserve. I totally get where you're coming from and that's why I'm just stating and explaining my position. I won't argue with you or try to convince you. I just want you to understand. You'll have to make up your own mind.
That's not how mappers who care about custom content see it though. What mappers do and create they create for nothing but a little recognition so while it would be anyone's right to sue someone who stole their content it's never worth the hassle. How much rights do you have over your map anyhow, if you used the engine and content from the game? How much damage was done if you never had the intention of selling your content, and even if you had you couldn't because of licensing issues with the game? It's always tricky and even if it wasn't, no one's ever going to court over something like this.
So the sad truth is, amateur modders have NO way of protecting their content. None whatsoever.

The only thing that helps us as a community of creators of content is if we abide by a strict code of honor. The only thing that can be stolen from us: recognition, has to be made impossible to steal. This means that if a modder is caught stealing content this stolen work must not earn him any recognition. On the contrary, exposing this violation of our code of honor must be punished by destroying that individual's reputation as a modder.

Only if we are very strict with these rules, and only if we take them as a principle can this work. If it's "ok" to steal content in this or that circumstance it would stop being seen as the horrible crime it must be seen as.

This all sounds much more samurai than it is. I'm not some vigilante nutjob. As you may know I expressly allowed use of content from my maps for everyone working on Killing Floor projects. I would probably allow you to fix my maps too if you ever contacted me. In my view, I created content for the community so the community can enjoy it (almost) however they please.
I do however recognize that not every feels like me and that the only protection against intellectual theft is to be strict about it.



I also see how this is a special case though. The maps would be forgotten because of ridiculous oversights and you fix them, thus saving them from undeserved death and you don't demand credit that isn't yours either, as far as I know.
Personally, I'm against what you do. In the few cases that a good map would die off AND the original mapper doesn't give you permission to change it (because that's how it must be seen! It's not "I can't reach him, but he'd probably be fine with it anyhow, I mean, why wouldn't he"! It's "I did not get permission to touch this map") I would maybe sad about it, but accept that there is nothing I can do. As unfortunate as it may be.

That's me though. Don't stop doing what you do on my account. And please don't send anyone my way.:p Just understand both sides of the argument and weigh up the need for us as a community to stay loyal to our collective ideals against the need to fix maps you're not allowed to touch.

Just, when you decide to fix them, try to do it as you claim you do and stick to fixing invisible exploit problems and make sure players understand who's map it really is!

Good luck either way.:)
 
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I fully understand your point of view, because Im also very strict about these rules. This is why I always make sure everyone knows its not my map and try to link people to the original map thread.

To be honest Ive never been that comfortable at doing this because while it makes a lot of people happy it also feels wrong from mappers point of view. Thats why this will probably be my last map fix.
 
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hey guys! not been on here in a while...
ive not opened unrealed in a long long time, or even played KF for a long time!
this map was made at the same time i started a WW2 KF mod but never had the motivation to finish.
anyway, i give permission to other mappers to edit and release this map as they see fit (i didnt realise it even got played much..)

Lino.

P.S big ups to Murphy for defending the average joe mapper!:D
 
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