Into The Jungle
- Thread starter Yoshiro
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3D Voip
3D Voip
What if the 3D VOIP was done outside the game engine like it is in BF2
R
I don't know how it is implemented so cant shed any light on it, but I know the BF2PR standalone client has the mumble application linked, and it works for positional audio.
Mumble is open source as well.
http://wiki.mumble.info/wiki/Main_Page
3D Voip
What if the 3D VOIP was done outside the game engine like it is in BF2
RI don't know how it is implemented so cant shed any light on it, but I know the BF2PR standalone client has the mumble application linked, and it works for positional audio.
Mumble is open source as well.
http://wiki.mumble.info/wiki/Main_Page
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Sure but PR is free. And TWI are making profit from RS2 - so I think they will have to share some of the profit if they use mumble commercially. Also I don't think they will allow such thing as DEVS to happen - "well, we can't implement 3D VOIP by ourselves so we are using third party app." No, this won't speak well for TWI so its better not to have 3D VOIP rather than using third party app in contract with them for the game.
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You can use Mumble commercially and incorporate it into your game AFAIK. UE3 seems to be problematic with positional audio, so I don't know if it would work though.
Devs often buy and use other assets and software in their games, they just don't usually tell you. There are companies that can provide you with much of what you'd need to build a game, but stock stuff looks like stock stuff, so most studios either then mod it or build from scratch.
Squad has used prebuilt characters with animations for their initial models as well as are planning on buying and implementing a dynamic weather lighting module that mirrors the weather in real world locations.
Devs often buy and use other assets and software in their games, they just don't usually tell you. There are companies that can provide you with much of what you'd need to build a game, but stock stuff looks like stock stuff, so most studios either then mod it or build from scratch.
Squad has used prebuilt characters with animations for their initial models as well as are planning on buying and implementing a dynamic weather lighting module that mirrors the weather in real world locations.
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Our 6 pillars of gameplay will serve as this. We have touched on two of them here to kick things off and will be discussing them and the other 4 as we move ahead.
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Awesome. I hope I like the next four as much as I liked the first two. Thank you for the response so that people know what direction RS2 is heading.
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I have not played R01, but I have played 1500 hours of RO2. I can confirm firsthand that most players--both casual and hardcore--tend to prefer vanilla RO2 over rising storm, myself included. I will do my best to explain.
Map Design
From personal experience, the maps many RO2 players like the best tend to be (disclaimer, everyone has personal preferences) Spartanovka, Mamaev Kurgan, Barracks, & Red October Factory. I pick these simply from my observations from playing campaign mode a lot and listening to chat in-game. These maps (outside of imbalanced apartments for the attackers) tend to be voted for the most even when factoring in attacker difficulty.
These maps have several common elements that I've noticed are important to enjoyability:
1). First they are what I would call semi-open maps. Large swaths of the map are open ground and thus instant death without smoke. Other areas are close quarters "strongpoints" and tend to have enemies clustered within.
2). The capzones are relatively close to each other. For example, cap C and D are 1 street away from each other on barracks. On Spartanovka, each cap is literally 5 or 10 feet from the next and so forth. On more open maps, the distance between caps is somewhat greater but the caps are well within firing view of each other.
3). On these maps tickets are usually the constraining factor, and time is secondary but still matters; attackers can get stuck on a cap for some time as long as its not too long
What do these elements create? These maps are a brutal tug-of-war. By a brutal tug-of-war, I mean every inch of ground is precious. 100 lives (tickets) spent just to cross a single street in Stalingrad. 65 tickets to just advance 25 feet to the next housing block in Spartanovka. 85 lives lost to make it to the next nearby row of trenches on Mamaev. RO2's gore, character screams, and partially functioning death moans only add to this atmosphere so well. This is the gameplay I and many RO2 players know, love, and remember.
Now to contrast with other maps, on Hanto, when trenches are capped, the fight moves very far back. Same with B cap. The fight moves 200 meters away once capped. Theres an artificial feeling to it as if each capzone is its own seperate ecosystem disjointly related. The same goes with Saipan. Once a zone is capped, the combat zone moves very far back. What I specifically mean is, the buildings in previous objective that was capped is not in danger from enemy fire. The fight is completely moved to a separate area and not just continued. I truly think people would prefer it if every inch had to be contested with a cap-zone across every parallel street.
Now on the topic of semi-open maps, Rising Storm maps have a lack of long range fighting. Most fights tend to be close range because there are bushes, dips in the terrain everywhere. It leads to gameplay feeling the same with constant "gladiatorial fights" up front and close. The lack of automatic weapons for the Japanese and fast moving flamethrower guys only adds to the aggravation. If you notice, the most popular Rising Storm map is Iwo Jima which has a good mix of open versus close range combat and somewhat closer capzones. What I fear is that the devs have shied away from open maps thinking new players won't like them. Yes, there are maps that are TOO open. These are ARAD2 and Barashka. A lot of players strongly dislike these maps. There is 0 cover almost everywhere. But remember there is a sense of accomplishment to overcoming challenges and it feels good when after a hard fight you managed to cross the street/field of death into the next building. Winterwald and Bridges are popular because of this as well.
Now let me end by saying what a good RS2 map should be like if it were designed along the lines of a successful vanilla RO2 map.
Good small map: 2 giant rice paddies. Your cover consists of 2 dike walls, a single burned out APC, and 2 bison carcasses, nothing else except a few bushes along the edge of the map. Squad leaders must use smoke to leapfrog. Next cap: another 2 adjacent rice paddies 15 feet away; the fighting doesn't just stop, it keeps going. Next cap: an open dirt road just beyond the rice paddies. A single ruined building to the right side is a good stepping stone to cross. Getting from the ditch on your side of the road to the ditch on the other side is fraught with danger. Final cap: past some bushes and trees but nearby is a group of huts. Once the offensive team manages to get a foothold, a 16 man rush win the game.
Such a map doesn't hold players hands with cover everywhere. It forces players to think hard about where to go and how to attack. It offers a good mix of long range combat and short range combat to suit multiple playstyles. Its memorable because the map forces you to fight hard to advance just a little bit.
Thats my 2 cents. P.S. flamethrower run speed could be toned down as well.
I hope others see and understand what I'm trying to say.
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I know some people have been saying "BE LIKE ROOST" a lot, but its been said a few times that things wont be going back to that. If anything I'd say have a look at IOM for RO2 and work from that. If there were two game modes "Normal" like RO2 / RS now and "Hardcore Realism" with an IOM influence on it it would be best for the game. Such modes have to be with the game on launch however to get people to really adopt them though I think.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Dibbler now works for AMG? If so that is a perfect launch point for someone with experience making said mode.
I wouldn't look too hard at DH. I love it too bits, but I swear some DH players are so bias its impossible to suggest anything away from the holy grail that is DH else you get accused of video game blasphemy.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Dibbler now works for AMG? If so that is a perfect launch point for someone with experience making said mode.
I wouldn't look too hard at DH. I love it too bits, but I swear some DH players are so bias its impossible to suggest anything away from the holy grail that is DH else you get accused of video game blasphemy.
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In my humble opinion, there should just be a single realism mode. No one plays arcade/classic anymore except on free weekends when new players unknowingly happen to enter such servers.
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No one plays firefight map-mode either. Development time would be better spent just on just territory maps and making multiple versions of capzones on territory maps. i.e. TE1, TE2 like a fallen fighters that is neutral from north to south and a fallen fighters that is an attacker push from left to right. Campaign mode which is VERY popular would benefit from this.
Regarding IOM, I think its safe to say, players want LOUD explosions, LOUD gunfire sounds, and most of all, LOUD bullet cracks.
see what SQUAD has done in that regard. RS2 can do well too. I also hope long death moans get put in this time as well. People fondly remember beta build RO2 as PTSD simulator online and loved it. Its a shame they became broken.
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It should actually be a realism mode then. The word realism should not be thrown around like a softball because it is misleading. The Classic mode in RO2/RS is what I would actually call the Realism Mode. The "Realism" mode in RO2/RS should be called Casual Mode. The Action mode in RO2/RS should be called Arcade Mode.
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KF2 runs on a 64bit version of UE3 and uses DX11. It does not exploit all the benefits of each technology but its still running on said platforms unlike RO2 which runs 32bit and DX9.
I think Tripwire have nailed UE3 now and it means they can focus on delivering a decent game instead of learning how to code for a new engine, which I believe was one of the reasons for RO2's flaky release.
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To interject some of my thoughts:
You have to remember that there are a lot of people who have grown up on RO2 only. A lot of people like "dense" combat and heavy fire-fights where lots die to advance a few yards. I think Tripwire nailed the futility of Stalingrad fighting quite well.
The only thing I agree on is that bolting is too fast. Something to point out is that most players won't touch classic mode due to the movement speed. I don't see it as being unrealistic either. People with a light amount of equipment can run that fast, albeit tire out very quickly. MGs could maybe move a little slower but that is it.
IF gameplay needs to be slowed down, they should adjust stamina regen time and leave movement speed alone.
You have to remember that there are a lot of people who have grown up on RO2 only. A lot of people like "dense" combat and heavy fire-fights where lots die to advance a few yards. I think Tripwire nailed the futility of Stalingrad fighting quite well.
The only thing I agree on is that bolting is too fast. Something to point out is that most players won't touch classic mode due to the movement speed. I don't see it as being unrealistic either. People with a light amount of equipment can run that fast, albeit tire out very quickly. MGs could maybe move a little slower but that is it.
IF gameplay needs to be slowed down, they should adjust stamina regen time and leave movement speed alone.
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i dont mind zoom at all. i think there should be two types of ironsights. 1) nonzoomed ironsights where you can move at a ***** walking pace but are still able to keep the sights up. 2) a zoomed ironsights where its has a slight zoom to simulate the real life focus of the eye. this should be have limited speed. the ironsights in RO2/RS are already perfect for it. there just needs to be a middle ground between hip fire and focused iron sights.
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why is the word B.r.i.s.k. cesnored. its a verb for a quick pace
yes. not many people play ROOST as much anymore, but Darkest Hour still keeps the same fundamentals. you have decent accuracy for the first 4 seconds or so when standing/crouching and aiming down the sights but after that it gets harder and begins to sway. it made it so that you couldnt sprint, ironsights up, and kill someone easily at over a hundred yards away. i think the no zoom helped with that too. this forced players to fire from prone more, or rest their rifle against something to stabilize the shot. this is what slowed down the gameplay.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-V372ikUAvQ
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No zoom please
No zoom please
Please don't put in the zoom feature from ro2, that is the greatest source of frustration in the game. At first you think its good for new players but in reality it makes the game incredible hard for new players. It makes every bolt action rifle into a sniper rifle, you will get "sniped" from just about anyone since everyone got a frickin zoom. That makes it so you will die in 2 seconds all the time which is no fun. You can't even argue the zoom is realistic either.
No zoom please
Please don't put in the zoom feature from ro2, that is the greatest source of frustration in the game. At first you think its good for new players but in reality it makes the game incredible hard for new players. It makes every bolt action rifle into a sniper rifle, you will get "sniped" from just about anyone since everyone got a frickin zoom. That makes it so you will die in 2 seconds all the time which is no fun. You can't even argue the zoom is realistic either.
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This. Mg34's killing everyone with single shots from a couple hundred meters doesn't feel that immersive either.
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If there is a video that summarizes the experience many folks associate with RO2, its this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2qOFBulGTg&feature=youtu.be
One of the top comments is: "This is some Red Orchestra **** right here. Love it!"
Many people like the pitched constant combat, its lethality and deadliness. Its the morbid atmosphere, the screams, the yells--pleading with God not to die, crying for one's parents, choking on blood, the constant gunfire, the futility, the sad music, watching so many around you get gunned down. Many who have grown up on RO2 love it. This is one of your best selling points Tripwire. Don't stray from this. The small trends with Rising Storm 1 has me worried that you are going with a more upbeat theme with the music and all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2qOFBulGTg&feature=youtu.be
One of the top comments is: "This is some Red Orchestra **** right here. Love it!"
Many people like the pitched constant combat, its lethality and deadliness. Its the morbid atmosphere, the screams, the yells--pleading with God not to die, crying for one's parents, choking on blood, the constant gunfire, the futility, the sad music, watching so many around you get gunned down. Many who have grown up on RO2 love it. This is one of your best selling points Tripwire. Don't stray from this. The small trends with Rising Storm 1 has me worried that you are going with a more upbeat theme with the music and all.
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