How I'd like weapon balance to be in RS2

[Unus Offa Unus Nex]

So having played the beta for many hours and testing most weapons I found a few issues in terms of balance I'd personally like to see corrected for the final release, and it pretty much mostly pertains to the damage done by the various cartridge types. Thus below I'll list what I'd roughly like to see.


1. All weapons chambered in full powered rifle cartridges (7.62 NATO & 7.62x54R) need to do more dmg on impact than they did in BW 7 (too often did I watch targets shrugg off hits from these weapons that should've killed them). Thus from these weapons I'd like to see 1 shot kills to the head, chest & stomach at all ranges, and heavy bleeding on hits to limbs.

2. All weapons chambered in intermediate rifle cartridges (AK, SKS & M16 etc..) should besides from differences in recoil & penetration do the same dmg pr. hit, and that IMO means 1 shot kills to the head & chest at all ranges, the stomach out to 200m (substituted by heavy bleeding past 200m or 2nd hit kill), and medium bleeding on hits to limbs.

3. All weapons chambered in pistol caliber cartridges (Grease Gun, PPSh etc..) should result in 1 shot kills to the head at all ranges, 2 shots to the chest out to 150m (beyond that range 2 causing heavy bleeding and a 3rd killing the target), 3 shots to the stomach at all ranges (medium bleeding on 1st, heavy on 2nd) and light bleeding on hits to limbs.


Using this as a rough guideline would make sure that there's a clear difference between the different types of weapons ingame, with the player getting to experience the extra or lesser power he/she expects from weapons chambered in cartridges of differing power levels.
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The above having been said I have a question for the devs: Whilst playing the beta it felt like I sometimes experienced targets shrugg off centermass hits from rifles when I hit them running from the side, as if my bullet hit them in the arm and got stopped by the arm instead of continuing on through & through their arm, torso and out the other arm. Could this be the case? If so I think it needs correcting as all the rifle rounds ingame would go through & through at most ranges.

 

[ThatOneWarNerd]

An interesting idea, but why should 7.62x39 SOVIET and 5.56x45 NATO be expected to deal the same amount of damage? I'm not saying I disagree that this would be fair (and slightly more believable) for balance, I just want to know why.

The round fired and it's delivery from the AK47/AKM/SKS platforms, is substantially more powerful than the round fired from the M16 platform, at least in terms of severity of injury/killing power.

I'd like to see them work things out similarly to Rising Storm 1's damage system, to be honest. 1-3 shots to the chest, and 1 shot to the head, should always be enough to kill an enemy with the aforementioned rifles.

EDIT: I've also experienced that last part mentioned in OP's post, I distinctly recall shooting an approaching enemy dead center in his chest with the Type 56, and then in the side of his chest as well, one time each, and he continued on running, the damage system really does need to be looked at again.

 

[Moko]

In terms of the high caliber bullets, I really think there was a bug or a feature that didn't work out the way they planned. I had a lot of situations where I'd hit someone square in the upper chest with an M14, Mosin, or SVD and they'd just bleed, whereas all my AK and M16 upper chests hits were a guaranteed kill. Even my 1911 and TT-33 chest shots would kill more reliably than the high caliber ones.

 

[dibbler67]

The damage model already works out to something like what you describe (in theory, assuming no bugs in hit detection.) It does attempt to model how effective different projectiles are at transferring their energy to the target for a given velocity. In particular, the M193 projectile out of the M16A1 is devastating within about 130m because of its tendency to fragment inside soft targets at high velocity.

In practice the M16 is a OHK to the abdomen and torso on the interval [0m,130m]. The 7.62x39 is a OHK to the abdomen and torso on the interval [50m, 200m]. These are approximate - the damage at a given range is not hard-coded.

All full power rifle cartridges will kill with a single shot to the abdomen or torso out to great range (+1000m, much farther than you can easily shoot in game right now).

Now, I have occasionally seen shots connect that should have passed through to critical areas not do so. That's likely a bug. The rounds are meant to deal damage to all zones that they intersect.

 

[Spillo2382]

In terms of the high caliber bullets, I really think there was a bug or a feature that didn't work out the way they planned. I had a lot of situations where I'd hit someone square in the upper chest with an M14, Mosin, or SVD and they'd just bleed, whereas all my AK and M16 upper chests hits were a guaranteed kill. Even my 1911 and TT-33 chest shots would kill more reliably than the high caliber ones.

You can't know if those guys had full life or not... But i agree with a little rebalance in the damage model.

 

[Unus Offa Unus Nex]

The damage model already works out to something like what you describe (in theory, assuming no bugs in hit detection.) It does attempt to model how effective different projectiles are at transferring their energy to the target for a given velocity. In particular, the M193 projectile out of the M16A1 is devastating within about 130m because of its tendency to fragment inside soft targets at high velocity.

In practice the M16 is a OHK to the abdomen and torso on the interval [0m,130m]. The 7.62x39 is a OHK to the abdomen and torso on the interval [50m, 200m]. These are approximate - the damage at a given range is not hard-coded.

All full power rifle cartridges will kill with a single shot to the abdomen or torso out to great range (+1000m, much farther than you can easily shoot in game right now).

Now, I have occasionally seen shots connect that should have passed through to critical areas not do so. That's likely a bug. The rounds are meant to deal damage to all zones that they intersect.

That's very good to hear Dibbler67, esp. that you took details such as fragmentation into account, I can only express much applaus for that!

Thus I must conclude that the issues I encountered with targets not dying from dead on centermass shots by rifle from the sides had to have been hit detection bugs then?

 

[dibbler67]

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Thus I must conclude that the issues I encountered with targets not dying from dead on centermass shots by rifle from the sides had to have been hit detection bugs then?

Yes. Center of mass rifle shots are intended OHKs.

 

[Lemonater47]

Yes. Center of mass rifle shots are intended OHKs.

Even the M14 in the center of the chest doesn't kill sometimes. You see the blood and everything. He just walks it off. Quite often they end up bandaging. So you've definitely hit them. And it didn't look like it was on a limb.

I've even survived multiple bullets without even needing to bandage. Some of those bullets being full size rifle rounds.

It just doesn't seem like hit detection issues to me. It's sorta like they around going through the body but missing the critical area's inside.

If RS2 had the paper doll we would be able to see this more clearly lol.

 

[Unus Offa Unus Nex]

Yes. Center of mass rifle shots are intended OHKs.

Excellent, then I'm looking forward to the hit detection bugs being ironed out