How far can you see Muzzle Flash?

[Srinidhalaya]

i maybe wrong about this, but isn't there always a muzzle flash, the question is whether you can see it or not.

Correct. In the myth busters video, you have to trust what they say, they were there and didn't see the muzzle flash. I'm not debating its existence. And the weapon they chose actually puts off a lot of muzzle flash. That's why they chose that specific weapon.

They question is, How far away can you see Muzzle Flash? Either way it doesn't bother me one bit, I'd just like to know.

 

[VariousNames]

A lot of *ahem* internetz experts like to use youtube videos as their argument against large muzzleflashes. Under high light conditions, they are very hard to see, and the most distinct visual is a puff of smoke.

As opposed to internet experts using Youtube videos as their argument in favor of large muzzleflashes?

As though it were not already established that light conditions have an affect on muzzle flash? If you set on a flashlight or torch in daylight, you'll see nothing. This is obvious to anyone already.

 

[Srinidhalaya]

As opposed to internet experts using Youtube videos as their argument in favor of large muzzleflashes?

As though it were not already established that light conditions have an affect on muzzle flash? If you set on a flashlight or torch in daylight, you'll see nothing. This is obvious to anyone already.

Will we be seeing Muzzle Flash in daylight? Some games have it :/.

 

[Tweek]

I've never seen a muzzle flash out of my 91/30 shooting it during the day.

I've also never seen any flash from my 91/30, just a very faint puff of smoke, if that. Any barrel that is properly sized for maximum powder burn won't show a flash.

Like someone above said, carbine length Mosins (M44 and M38) are nortorious for having a large muzzle flash - the shorter barrel (20" vs the 29" of the 91/30) doesn't let all of the powder burn inside of the barrel. They're quite loud compared to the 91/30 also

Indeed, that also contributes to the actual vs felt recoil debate. It's a pet peeve of mine when I see countless people on the Internet say the M44 has worse recoil than a 91/30. The reason people say this is that the big fireball and louder sounds trick your brain into thinking the recoil is higher. Force gauge readings that people have taken prove otherwise, the longer barrel and hence longer opposite force creates more actual recoil in the 91/30, even though it weighs slightly more. Sorry for this little OT.

 

[KillItNow]

Interesting, swear my shoulder hates my m44 more then my 91/30.

 

[Srinidhalaya]

My Turkish Mauser 98k (which is longer than the german 98k) has very little 'shoulder kick', but it does have a very high recoil, which makes shooting standing up near impossible.


Still looking for the answer to my original question..

 

[KarmakazeNZ]

You can see muzzle-flash from hundreds of yards.

I'm sorry, but that is utter bollocks. I have stood within a few yards of a GPMG firing on full auto in the early evening, and even though the tracer rounds were perfectly visible, there was NO muzzle flash at all.

Muzzle flash comes from unburned gunpowder. Normal military loads will NOT produce a daylight flash, and only a subtle one at night, I doubt much has changed in 50 years.

Hollywood blanks have far too much powder in them specifically to cause a nice big visible flash. No real gun does that.

 

[KarmakazeNZ]

Youtube videos are a bad example, muzzle flash is a quick event and the frames of the video with the flash could be easily missing because of the poor quality.

The problem you are having here is that you forget that our eyes are not much better than TV cameras, and much WORSE than highspeed cameras as used in Mythbusters and film.

If the flash is too quick for the camera to catch, it's too quick for YOU to catch. Basically what you are saying is that a typical muzzle flash lasts for less than 1/24 to 1/30th of a second. That means in an FPS game that is averaging 60FPS the game would render the flash for 2 or 3 frames. Almost not worth even bothering, and I'm willing to bet most of us wouldn't even see it.

Muzzle flash is caused by gunpowder burning AFTER it leaves the barrel. The only time you would want gunpowder to still be unburned as it leaves the barrel is to create a nice big flash for a movie special effect. A properly loaded firearm should have all the powder burned before the bullet even leaves the barrel, anything else is just a waste of powder.

What IS visible from rather long ranges is smoke, which is why smokeless powder was invented. You are far more likely to see the effects of the shock wave on surrounding vegetation and the small puff of smoke than the muzzle flash, unless you are talking about a dark night.

Here is what I am talking about:

AK-47 tracer round - YouTube

Before you go on about frame rates, please note that you can clearly see the tracer fly off into the distance, but no muzzle flash AT ALL. The shot comes at around the 34 second mark. Also note that you can see the puff of smoke above the horizon line at the instant of firing.

Let me put it this way - if your gun blinded you every time you fired it in low light conditions, you wouldn't want to use it. Yet some games (BFBC2 for example) have the muzzle flash blind you in broad daylight. It's utterly retarded. Logic alone dictates that it can't really be like that.

 

[Srinidhalaya]

In the myth busters, they physically saw a flash from the military round, but it was close, like 50 yards or so.

 

[slyder73]

Well depends on the lighting of the map. If its a night map you can see that sucka a long way off. Day, just a puff of smoke.

Well, I shoot a lot of guns, several WW2 vintage. There is no "puff of smoke", as smokeless powder was developed long before WW1 even. There is certainly some gas ejected from the barrel and some smoke from the chamber as rounds are ejected but nothing that would be noticable from any distance past a dozen yards or so. If there is a large puff of smoke or large bright flames/flashes then someone has done something terribly wrong when manufacturing or reloading the bullets; both now and in WW2. It just didn't happen and doesn't happen now.

As for muzzle flash. I have yet, in 30 something years of shooting to see or notice a bright muzzle flash in the daylight that would catch your eye at ANY distance (granted I've rarely been on the recieving end of the shots and thus not on the pointy end of the flash). At night, or in low light conditions however, the flash is somewhat, and I do mean somewhat, as in barely noticable.

Keep in mind noticing a flash from a Soviet SVT-40 for example is easy in daylight, but standing very close, either as the shooter or behind the shooter. This rifle is known for it's flash, but even then, in the middle of the day, from a dozen or so yards away, unless looking closely it is not bright enough to draw the eye. Any further and there is no flash for all intents and purposes. At night/low light, it is more visible because the light is dimmer. A "spike" of flame, instantaneous and gone in a fraction of a fraction of a second is visible and it really is visible 18 to 24 inches in length from the end of the barrel but only for that short duration; depending on your ammunition powder weight. But....even then, the brightness is not a flash like I think many assume, firecracker like; it is more like a BBQ flame up in a small column. Not that bright at all and made up of hot gasses still combusting.

 

[Zoring]

Well there is a little blast of Gas and a little bit of what can only really be described as smoke? This video of my friend shooting my Kar 98 is as close to what you will see shooting for real, a noticeable blast but no flash. These were factory loads of about 180~ grains iirc. I know posting Youtube vids and all that But i picked this one because I was there and this is what firing one of these rifles really does look like.

Ashley Shooting Mauser 3.MOV - YouTube

also this was me back in 2008 shooting my Mauser C96 for the first time. You will notice a bit of drifting smoke after the shots.

chris shooting! - YouTube

I have fired a SVT when I visited America, didn't see or notice any muzzle flash but it gave the sharpest kick of any rifle I have ever fired! Don't know why really.

 

[JockCoke]

Not even trying to make a point here, just found this muzzle flash while searching and thought looked pretty rad:
My Registered Full Auto Ak-47 - YouTube